PENFOLDS O/S PRICES......WHAT THE

[TORB]

Gents

The comparison will be more realistic when the AUD is where it belongs!

Stock bought by foreign retailers when the AUD below 6o cents and unsold until the AUD near 80 cents makes for a startling conversion!

Jamie,

In the case of SC this is not as valid as it would be for some other companies. Apparently SC had huge forward exchange coverage and protection that vitrtually insulated them from the rising Oz $ for quite some time.

[Noel]

Hi Kris,
Duty at the moment is around £1.33/bottle
Vat 17.5%
Can be shipped ex vat but you will have to pay tax at your end- not sure how much. Australian Dollar is strong against the pound at the moment indeed 10% stronger than 2 months ago, so not a bad time to buy...
Of course if you bring wines in small quantities back yourself then no charge....!

[Guest]

In the long term it wont be in the class of 96 or 98 GRANGE.

[Noel]

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject:

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In the long term it wont be in the class of 96 or 98 GRANGE


Thanks for that qualified opinion Guest. IMHO i think it will easily be!!

[n4sir]

Jancis visited SA in February, so what was tried would have been barrel samples (like most of the writers who have published such glowing remarks). I think Huon Hooke may have tried it just after bottling, but it could easily have been just before too.

It's just bad timing that Jancis visited Kay Bros two days before we lobbed up at the cellar door - 48 hours earlier we could have been treated to a vertical of Block 6!!!

Cheers
Ian

Jancis tasted the finished bottles at the London wine Trade fair as i did. Fabulous wines. Really special and well worth it.
Regardless of the fact taht i am selling these are seriously good!!!
BBR have it but you can buy from me by the bottle or case!!!
www.nywines.co.uk
go to new releases

Noel

My apologies Noel (and of course Jancis).

With the trip last summer I wrongly assumed it was then (when coincidentally other wine critics were commenting on barrel samples).

It's not the first time I've added 1+1 to come up with 3.

That's a worry being an Accountant!

Cheers
Ian

[TORB]

It's not the first time I've added 1+1 to come up with 3.

That's a worry being an Accountant!

Ian,

Can you please contact my accountant and tell him how to do that little trick; it will certainly help my tax return.

[Guest]

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject:

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In the long term it wont be in the class of 96 or 98 GRANGE


Thanks for that qualified opinion Guest. IMHO i think it will easily be!!

Yes but you are selling it.I cannot see how even the best grapes from a very good vintage compare to the best grapes from an ultimate vintage and a proven recipe.

[Noel]

The fact i am selling it is irrelevant i am hardly aiming to sell to Australians!! 2004 is a top vintage and these wines taste up there with thr Grange's but less oaky. What was your opinion when you tasted them???

[Latitude]

Jester,

Its very simple, Penfolds will charge what ever the market will stand in every market they operate in. Gone are the days where you say, its costs "x" to produce; I will mark it up by "y%" giving a retail price of "z."

These global players don't give a rodents posterior where they sell thier wine and could not care less about customer loyalty. Much of that is to be expected when the whole operation is driven with the next quarters results being the most important driving factor.

And yes, I am a cynic.

Ric, If you want some cred as a writer, please do your research instead of making assertions. I'm not sure it is totally fair to shoot down the company because of their size. I also think you will find the wholesale price of Penfolds reds i.e. excluding taxes is very close all over the world - allowing for freight.

Further, and with reference to the original post, unlike retailers in Australia, US retailers do not included state taxes in prices, this is added at checkout.

Lets not play bash the multinational by grose generalisations from people who should know better.

[Craig(NZ).]

TORB

Never aim to be credible its over rated

never as entertaining and way too serious!

In the end who gives a toss about tax and all that boring stuff. how it tastes is the important thing and whether you can mortgage the wife to afford it (or whether something else is more to your liking).

death to wine academia, pass me another glass

[Guest]

The fact i am selling it is irrelevant i am hardly aiming to sell to Australians!! 2004 is a top vintage and these wines taste up there with thr Grange's but less oaky. What was your opinion when you tasted them???

When i tasted the 02 707,RWT,389 which was called a top vintage they dissapointed compared to what are actually top vintages 96/98.I will beleive 04 is a top vintage when I try them myself.You see every next vintage is top according to Penfolds.

I love the oak in grange its half the wine and its top quility not the cheap stuff you seem to be scared of!

[TORB]

Jester,

Its very simple, Penfolds will charge what ever the market will stand in every market they operate in. Gone are the days where you say, its costs "x" to produce; I will mark it up by "y%" giving a retail price of "z."

These global players don't give a rodents posterior where they sell thier wine and could not care less about customer loyalty. Much of that is to be expected when the whole operation is driven with the next quarters results being the most important driving factor.

And yes, I am a cynic.

Ric, If you want some cred as a writer, please do your research instead of making assertions. I'm not sure it is totally fair to shoot down the company because of their size. I also think you will find the wholesale price of Penfolds reds i.e. excluding taxes is very close all over the world - allowing for freight.

Further, and with reference to the original post, unlike retailers in Australia, US retailers do not included state taxes in prices, this is added at checkout.

Lets not play bash the multinational by grose generalisations from people who should know better.

Littitude,

Perhaps you could get your facts right before you post something that directly questions my credibility.

As far the wholesale prices of Penfolds reds being close all over the worls; thats a load of complete bollocks. You only have to look at the pricing relativity through Winesearcher Pro to prove that point. The following are the lowest prices found using WS Pro in $A for all wines. The first price is the US price, the second is the Aust price

2002 Bin 28 US $20.73 --- $18.17

2002 Bin 407 US $20.73 --- $24.54

2002 Bin 389 US $22.03 --- $34.39
(avergae street price $24 in the US vs $37 in Oz.)

2002 Bin 128 US $25 vs $18.17

2002 Magill US $47.91 vs $89

2000 Grange US $215 vs $ 522

There is some impact of discounting that would influence factors (especially Grange) but never the less, the pricing is all over the place.

In Oz Magill is about 4 times the price of Bin 28 and 128. In the US its about twice!

In Oz the Bin 389 is almost twice the price of Bin 28 and Bin 128. In the US its almost the same price.

Still "think" the wholsesale prices are similar?

If so then perhaps you should do some further research and come back with some facts to disprove my points.

As for me not doing my research, I thought getting the information by interviewing the Chairman of the Board (at that time Brian Finn was also acting MD of SC) would have qualified. article Check out this article.. I still have the origional tape which stated, in answer to a question about this very thing.

"Those days are long gone. Would you buy a bottle of wine because of what it cost to produce and therefore what it costs to buy? If it's a value based product, you buy it because of your perception of its quality and that can be everything from the packaging through to the taste and so on. The US market has figured that out. Our pricing is based on its percieved value in each market. ....."

As far as taxes are concerned, whilst the majority of wine in Oz is taxed at over 40%, in the US the tax rate is very low and varies from state to state. So all the numbers for the Oz wines (above) include taxes and the US figures do not, but the US wine (state) taxes are normally single digit number, not like our 43%.

[Noel]

So you are basing your opinion on wines you have NOT tasted. How relevant......
Not scared of oak just pointing out these are not made in the same style. I love Grange too i think it is an absolute legendary wine. It's not a question of what is better....

[Guest]

It's not a question of what is better....

Exactly the point your missing. IT DOES FOR SOME PEOPLE WHO WILL NOT JUST BUY EVERY $450Aus WINE ON THE MARKET.

I made the point that 18/20 is not a flash score.Actually it might be for a $50 wine but $450? Do you think it is a great score?

[Noel]

I could not give a toss what the score is. Who's score?? It's my opinion that counts to me. I do not think ever $450 bottle is good either.
I think you should try the wine before being so vociferous and opinionated about something you have only read about.....

[Guest]

Why would i waste my $ on that when theres more attractive options?Paying for alot of reputation there. How many people here will ever try that wine in its peak in 30 years? Sad fact not many.

Not every special bin ever produced has been the top wine there made out to be. Some have some havent. You may have had a chance to try before you list your name to pay the $ but not every one gets this chance so dont be too "one eyed" and realise the way others see things. From what i am seing I have suspisions on one of these wines and think the other might be great which is my point all along "might be"!

[Guest]

The fact i am selling it is irrelevant i am hardly aiming to sell to Australians!! 2004 is a top vintage and these wines taste up there with thr Grange's but less oaky. What was your opinion when you tasted them???

Not wanting to get involved in the debate but the 2004 vintage was top only in Langhorne creek with McLaren vale almost as good. Barossa though not as good with Shiraz particually effected though Cabernet fairly good. Clare Valley like Barossa suffered from February heat. Limestone coast terrible and underripe. Adelaide Hills and Coonawarra good.Eden Good.

Not a top vintage overall though.

[Noel]

???
We are very happy with our Barossa Shiraz and most other producers i know are also wrapped with 2004..

[TORB]

More info on the 2004 Vintage from my vintage report
http://www.torbwine.com/index.htm?..//pa/2005/Vintage%20Perspective%202005.htm

The 2004 vintage in was certainly prolific in terms of quantity in all areas of SA. In many ways it was similar to 2002 but there were a few bumps in the road along the way to vintage. January was about the coolest on record. Two weeks of record heat in February followed and then things cooled down again to a long, slow ripening period. Interestingly enough one winery in McLaren Vale did their last crush on 12 May. That must be close to a record late completion date for vintage in that area. The late ripening was not restricted to McLaren Vale either.

In McLaren Vale, many of the producers are very happy with the fruit they picked and feel the quality of fruit is close to that of 2002. However, there are a number of very unhappy growers out there. The growers that overcropped were caught with their trousers down - big time. Some of the fruit produced was very ordinary which will result in ordinary wine.

In the Barossa, it is a similar story but with a twist. Here we have some very credible producers who are saying it is the best vintage since 1996. At the other extreme, there are comments from producers who are just as credible, expressing very serious concerns. Moreover, there was a range of comments with just about every possible variation in between those extremes. My feeling is that there will be some Barossa stunners from this vintage but a few ugly canines too.

ClareÂ’s producers were happy with the quality of Shiraz and whilst it is not as good as 2002, it was still a very good vintage. Cabernet Sauvignon in Clare can be variable but most producers expressed very positive reactions to this variety.

So based on the information I have gleaned, it is entirely possible to make a great wine in 2004, provided the producer is caerefull and knows what they are doing.

[707]

Latitude, I'm afraid you're off with the fairies if you believe the wholesale price of corporate wine is the same throughout the world. The pricing across the Penfolds range is a stark example of how we in Australia get screwed on the more popular lines compared to other countries.

He can stand up for himself, as he has done, but research is a strong point of TORB and IMO he's right on this occasion.

As for the crap that constantly goes on about vintages, every year produces exceptional parcels of fruit, even the horrid 1989 vintage produced a handful of wines that could match any surrounding vintage.

I've seen some speccy 2004s in barrel so I'm sure Penfoilds with their vast resources can produce a couple of special bin blinders which aren't huge production jobs. I've so far not tried them but a couple of palates I trust have and say they're very special indeed.

[Guest]

Heres an early tip>Orlando Lawson 2004 is going to be a all time classic