November Offline - Sydney - Cabernet

[andrewpc]

It was indeed a fantastic night. I thoroughly enjoyed my first offline and thanks to everyone for being so welcoming, and generous. Great to meet you all! Looking forward to attending a few more in the near future! Just got to get some Zaltos first

[Red Smurf]

My take on the night.
I really admire those on this forum who do this every tasting. It takes a lot of work and concentration. Hopefully I make some sense.
I probably was in a bit of a bubble as Hacker mentioned and didn't get to speak to many people on the night. Especially the Sav table.
Next tasting for me will be just a few impressions and have a good chat with everyone.

Bubbles to start

NV Jérôme Prévost Champagne La Closerie Extra Brut Les Beguines
Hacker brought 2 bottles of this. Seriously generous of you mate seeing there is only a small amount of this brought in to OZ. This one I think was 7 years old?? So still would have been a straight Pinot Meunier. Slight ox on the nose bringing with it some caramel and salinity like freshly shucked oysters. A little nettle and herb with spices on top of some Autolytic character make this a joy to smell. Nice vibrant mouse. Texture is good and entry is fresh despite the ox. The line of acidity is just right for the style (never dominating) and carries the ox well all through the mid palate and finish with a little sour dough and baking spice on the back end.

Some whites to get us going.

2014 Best's Great Western Foudre Ferment Riesling
There is some butterscotch oak that distracts straight off for me. Floral and musk notes emerge on a swirl. It has a nice crystalline quality bringing it alive though. The palate is full as expected being oak aged. The texture is round right through the mid and end with sweet limes. Unfortunately the acidity doesn’t balance that sweet sherbet finish for me. It’s not a smashable Riesling, more one to just have a glass of, but it’s definitely interesting.

2007 By Farr Viognier
Lots of Banana esters, little honeysuckle with an interesting depth of layers if you look. Entry is a little sweet and the mid palate is a little empty for me. Maybe a bit weighty and worked but does gain some complexity of dried fruit and spice on the finish but never quite has any drive.

On to the reds.

1991 Wynns Black Label Coonawarra Cabernet Sauvignon
Textbook old school black label nose of cool mint, touch of vegetation, bit of ribena berry and earth. There is also hints of clove. Entry is quite smooth and inviting and builds. It’s holding really well and the acidity is singing and gives it energy. Your whole palate is filled with waves of secondary cabernet flavours. Tannins are softening a little too much for me but it suits the wine and makes it enjoyable, comforting.

1992 Lindemans Pyrus
Caramelised plums and a little moss covered forest wood. The musky oak notes are quite prominent. It starts quite full on entry, plush. Lots of earth and bit of mulberry hanging on. The finish has nice fine grip but it’s drying out a little and just a bit old. Still nice though.

2009 Château des Graviers
Inviting and fresh nose of raspberry, touch of cedar and tobacco. Light on its feet on entry, good acid line and length. Sweet cherry and raspberry and some clove and black pepper. There is a tea leaf thing happening on that nice tannic grip but it is just a little simple lacking depth. Nice food wine.

2005 Balnaves of Coonawarra Cabernet Sauvignon The Tally Reserve
Forward and very sweet from fruit and oak. It’s more red and black cherry profile. The entry is actually not bad as it does have a lightness and drinkability even though it’s again palate sweet. It’s got some brush elements that add interest. The killer for me is it’s spike and out of wack acid profile at this stage of its evolution. Just a bit unhappy and unbalanced with that alcohol hit at the end not helping things.

1998 Petaluma Coonawarra
A little stewed fruit, some nice savouries and an earthy paprika thing. The leafy eucalypt notes add interest. It has a vibrant entry, punchy acid line which cleans the stewed fruit up a little. I couldn’t quite put my finger on it but it just feels wrong through the mid palate.

1997 Rockford Cabernet Sauvignon
Quite a bit of full plush fruit. Plums, touch of iodine and char. The nose is a little simple actually but there was this meaty sort of thing I liked. It’s fading a bit and probably should have been drunk 10 years ago but it’s drinkable and comforting. Just not a fan of the Rockford cab style though.

1995 Fermoy Estate Cabernet Sauvignon
Some balsamic notes straight up, Touch of leafy vegitables. It’s very smooth on entry but has a nice build and palate progression that I look for. It’s maybe a bit monolithic on the palate in terms of flavours but there is some lift on the finish which gives length.

1985 Wynns Coonawarra Estate Cabernet Sauvignon John Riddoch
Bit of meat sprinkled with Paprika. Earth and a bit of capsicum. Nice old school Coonawarra cab but there was something about the palate. It just sat there texturally with a sort of stagnant line. No build. No Lift. This wine had some fans and I get why. I kept going back for another sip of that happy, content, old school Coonawarra that was really pleasant to drink.

2000 Château Calon-Ségur (Blind)
Quite impenetrable, dark fruits, savour meats. Not really giving much. On the palate its all structure. Yes, I’m stupid for opening this but I was trying to give the Cullen some counterpoint. I think this Ségur left its heart behind!

2000 Cullen Wines Cabernet Sauvignon - Merlot (Diana Madeline) Magnum (single Blind)
Lovely savoury nose, nice floral nuances. Its round up front pointing to new world structure. Nice punchy middle weight fruit. Even a bit of herb and tomato leaf going on adding interest. Great structure with an elusive spice note that lingerers on a persistent finish. Not showing its 15 year age at all. Good drinking.

Palate cleanser for the fish dish that came out. Nice Tim!

2010 Kumeu River Chardonnay Coddington
Nice white flowers, bit of cheesy funk and stone fruits underneath. Palate entry and mid is quite viscous from what I have tried before from Kumeu. There is a ripeness to this going almost too sweet?? but the lemon acidity arrives in time to freshen it up on the finish. Enjoyed this and a good break from the reds.

Back to the reds.

2002 Houghton Cabernet Sauvignon Gladstones
Lovely vegetal, leafy nose but still plenty of fruit. There is a smoky char that’s interesting. There is a bit of macerated blackberries on a some what full palate but progression is good, the finish chewy and it’s a really good drinking cabernet style for me.

2001 Houghton Cabernet Sauvignon Jack Mann
Smells of that leafy, brush thing I like of the Jack Mann. Round, up front weightiness but there is good flow to the wine. Mid palate carries plenty of cabernet flavours. Plenty of dark fruits. There is a lovely grip to this wine and demands food, but then..damn...acid kicks and spoils it.

2003 Château Pontet-Canet
Lifted nose of musk and florals. There is a lot of sweet fruit here and it’s a little oaky. It’s again sweet, ripe, plush and round on the palate and if I dare say...modern. It is very inviting though, again I can see why it won fans. The palate has good depth and all the time keeping drinkability and balance. It’s just a bit smooth on the finish. Nice drinking but more grip for me please.

2000 Wild Duck Creek Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve
Little musty on first smell. Bit of VA lift and some alcohol coming through. Tomato leaf and bitter chocolate. . Bit of this sweet and sour fruit going on here. Acidity cleans up some of the sweet fruit but again, not enough grip for me. I want to feel cabernet tannins and chew on them right throughout my whole palate.

Bit of palate fatigue setting in here.

2003 Domaine A Cabernet Sauvignon
This is a little dull on the nose. Quite a bit of biscuit oak. The palate is better with deep fruit set and it’s not bad drinking with nice textural elements and palate progression. The alcohol does shows through on the finish though.

1998 Te Mata Estate Coleraine
I missed this somehow and had a small taste at the end of the night.
All I wrote was really bright??

2005 Petaluma Coonawarra
Nice savoury liquorice and fennel nose with Cliché Coonawarra earth. Slightly sweet palate but there is good lightness and a bit of woody notes add interest. Bit a choc creeps in. Slight hollowness through the middle but structure is all there. The chewy and mouth-watering finish brings you back for another sip. Nice wine.

2004 Canobolas~Smith Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve
Lots of blueberries and some cedar. It’s quite lifted with VA hits. Acidity is nice in this wine giving drinkability and lightness but its again, slightly hollow in the midpalate.

1975 Château Coutet
Nose is marmalade and a little marzipan. Nice entry and sits on the palate well with dried apricots and a dough sort of thing there. It’s not really sweet so probably not the best match to the desert. Also missing some layers of a good Bordeaux sweetie so nothing flash but holding well and a nice end to the night as you swirl it around your mouth and wash away some of the tannin from the cabs.

[Hacker]

Greg, wow. Just wow. Thank you for the notes. I knew you were writing things down, but you encapsulate so much of what we were thinking and commenting on. If WF need another contributor, they know where to come!

For those who are maybe thinking of coming to an offline, please do so, as they are an amazing experience of sharing, friendship, banter, and everything that is great about our wine community.

[dave vino]

Damn Greg you are a hard man to please Do you ever give scores? Where would most of these be? high 80's and low 90's on the Cam scoring scale?

In any case great notes and thanks for taking the time to type them up and jog my memory of what was there.

[Bobthebuilder]

Fantastic night, once again!
And great effort Greg, that sure makes it a lot easier to recap the night for a quick summary.

Hacker - thank you once again for the delicious champagne, that was seriously some of the nicest I've ever had, so much going on there, and very Moorish (which can be dangerous for the opening bottle! ) It sits there next to my WOTN's and alongside my most memorable wine experiences

Like the Hunter night previously at the same joint, so many really nice wines and barely a dud bottle amonst them all.

My standouts were;

2014 Best's Riesling - I kinda agree with Gregs notes on the positive bits, the main point of difference is I would happily sit on this through a whole meal. I liked the way the oak and the fruit was married together.
1992 Pyrus - just a really nice mellow red, shows its age without being what I would call past it, but understandable many would.
1997 Rockford - probably my favourite, I like Rockford cabs and I also love age on them. I like the balance of sweet and savoury and the leathery notes.
2010 Kumeu River Coddington - Just love their wines, quite different to the entry level label (village?) I've tasted previously, and clearly a more refined and classy wine.
2003 Pontet-Canet - probably sits with the Rockford as my WOTN for the reds. The smoothness of this was a winner for me, as well as a lovely complexity that I don't really want to deconstruct and understand, because whenever I do that with anything it kinda loses a little bit of its beauty to me.

I was going to post some feedback from Michelle too, but the youngest just pooed in the bath so I guess I'm going to have to leave it until a bit later (face palm moment)

[felixp]

great to hear about the Rockford cab. Another vote for the 1997 SA vintage. In all honesty, for my palate, this vintage has almost overshadowed the much-hyped 98.

[TravisW]

Thanks for the wonderful notes Greg. Very easy to read and understand. Cheers for that.

Sounds like a wonderful night.

Cheers, Travis.

[Krusty]

I love Prevost champers
I love the '10 Kumeu Coddington
I really, really love old cabs

I certainly chose a bad dinner to cancel out of.....

Great notes Greg (although they were a little like squeezing lemon juice into the papercut )

[Red Smurf]

Do you ever give scores? Where would most of these be? high 80's and low 90's on the Cam scoring scale?

Ummmm.....no. I really enjoyed the night as I said. You know what I drink Dave. My palate probably doesn't align with most so scores would be useless.
Cam takes a lot of time to make his Wheelers consistent with every wine he has drunk. I don't have the patience for that.

[Polymer]

Great night...Lotsa very good wines...I'm not sure I had my ah ha moment with the Cullen but it was a lot better than the ones I've had in the past...Thanks to Greg for the blind lineup and the mag which let me go back to it several times in the night...

Even though I expect it, it is still interesting to see people's takes on the same wine..and how different their opinions about it can be....

I like Salt Pepper Nutmeg..but I will say, they sort of stuffed up this menu...if we're having a cab night, to basically make 4 out of the 6 dishes white wine dishes was just not good...food was fine..just seemed really mismatched for the wines...

But overall a really great night...as all of these tend to be .

[pc79]

Apologies for the delay I've been off the grid for the past few days. I will endeavour to get my notes (albeit a shadow of what Greg has posted). Some interesting and different takes on a lot of the wines.

Overall an amazing night with barely a faulty wine amongst them which is a bit of an anomaly with most cabs>10yo and under cork. Some great chat and interesting thoughts on each flight.

I would second Polymer's thoughts about the food. A big miss for me, and disappointing.

[Hacker]

I like the 'vibe' of the place but the only dishes that were up to scratch were the duck and the beef cheeks. The risotto was barely ok as a cab match. The fish dish, Cod I think, wasn't appropriate. I would give them another chance -it is my local after all!

[Polymer]

Oh I'd go back...I just think if we don't feel the food will match we should just let them know we need it changed..

Granted, we rarely have nights this lopsided red/white and cab is so unforgiving as well...

[rooman]

1975 Château Coutet
Nose is marmalade and a little marzipan. Nice entry and sits on the palate well with dried apricots and a dough sort of thing there. It’s not really sweet so probably not the best match to the desert. Also missing some layers of a good Bordeaux sweetie so nothing flash but holding well and a nice end to the night as you swirl it around your mouth and wash away some of the tannin from the cabs.

As I understand matter Barsac, which is where the Coutet comes from, is generally drier and less full than Sauternes. One of my last thoughts of the evening, before the 30 odd bottles of Cab Sav washed over me at the end, was thinking the sticky was most probably a Barsac. I have been to one meal in France where the host started the meal with a Barsac and foie gras. When I suggested it was strange to start the meal with a sweet wine, his response was the higher sugar levels in the Barsac adjust the ph levels in your stomach ahead of the meal to come. Conversely if you normally start a meal on an empty stomach with higher existing acidity, starting with a dry wine with high acid just compounds the situation. In his view you either had Barsac with pate or blue cheeses and the fuller richer Sauternes with dessert. Sadly I do not have enough of either to start dinners parties at home but I do like to try and kick off with an off dry German riesling for this reason then move back to drier wines.

mark

[Mike Hawkins]

1975 Château Coutet
Nose is marmalade and a little marzipan. Nice entry and sits on the palate well with dried apricots and a dough sort of thing there. It’s not really sweet so probably not the best match to the desert. Also missing some layers of a good Bordeaux sweetie so nothing flash but holding well and a nice end to the night as you swirl it around your mouth and wash away some of the tannin from the cabs.

As I understand matter Barsac, which is where the Coutet comes from, is generally drier and less full than Sauternes. One of my last thoughts of the evening, before the 30 odd bottles of Cab Sav washed over me at the end, was thinking the sticky was most probably a Barsac. I have been to one meal in France where the host started the meal with a Barsac and foie gras. When I suggested it was strange to start the meal with a sweet wine, his response was the higher sugar levels in the Barsac adjust the ph levels in your stomach ahead of the meal to come. Conversely if you normally start a meal on an empty stomach with higher existing acidity, starting with a dry wine with high acid just compounds the situation. In his view you either had Barsac with pate or blue cheeses and the fuller richer Sauternes with dessert. Sadly I do not have enough of either to start dinners parties at home but I do like to try and kick off with an off dry German riesling for this reason then move back to drier wines.

mark

I have a few French friends who nearly always start dinner parties with foie gras and either Rieussec or Daisy Daene

[rooman]

As I understand matter Barsac, which is where the Coutet comes from, is generally drier and less full than Sauternes. One of my last thoughts of the evening, before the 30 odd bottles of Cab Sav washed over me at the end, was thinking the sticky was most probably a Barsac. I have been to one meal in France where the host started the meal with a Barsac and foie gras. When I suggested it was strange to start the meal with a sweet wine, his response was the higher sugar levels in the Barsac adjust the ph levels in your stomach ahead of the meal to come. Conversely if you normally start a meal on an empty stomach with higher existing acidity, starting with a dry wine with high acid just compounds the situation. In his view you either had Barsac with pate or blue cheeses and the fuller richer Sauternes with dessert. Sadly I do not have enough of either to start dinners parties at home but I do like to try and kick off with an off dry German riesling for this reason then move back to drier wines.

mark

I have a few French friends who nearly always start dinner parties with foie gras and either Rieussec or Daisy Daene

Mike

That is interesting. I have had Doisy Daene but never really been a big fan of it. However as a Barsac that one might start a meal with, its a perfect wine, especially when compared to some of the richer Sauternes such as Chateau Lafaurie Peyraguey which I adore but could only imagine having at the end of a meal.

Mark

[Red Smurf]

I actually opened the same wine at our last cabernet blends Auswine offline last year.
I know its a more savoury wine but I remember it a lot sweeter with better acidity then.

I did open a Sauterne once in the middle of a dego with foie Gras and it went down well.
I don't think I would want to do it at the start.
Just curious. What would you drink after you start a meal with a Rieussec or a Daene? I would guess they are not drinking a dry Riesling following this.

[Mike Hawkins]

As I understand matter Barsac, which is where the Coutet comes from, is generally drier and less full than Sauternes. One of my last thoughts of the evening, before the 30 odd bottles of Cab Sav washed over me at the end, was thinking the sticky was most probably a Barsac. I have been to one meal in France where the host started the meal with a Barsac and foie gras. When I suggested it was strange to start the meal with a sweet wine, his response was the higher sugar levels in the Barsac adjust the ph levels in your stomach ahead of the meal to come. Conversely if you normally start a meal on an empty stomach with higher existing acidity, starting with a dry wine with high acid just compounds the situation. In his view you either had Barsac with pate or blue cheeses and the fuller richer Sauternes with dessert. Sadly I do not have enough of either to start dinners parties at home but I do like to try and kick off with an off dry German riesling for this reason then move back to drier wines.

mark

I have a few French friends who nearly always start dinner parties with foie gras and either Rieussec or Daisy Daene

In the great years, Daene and Vedrine are great, but I can understand why people wouldn't be thrilled with either in average years

Mike

That is interesting. I have had Doisy Daene but never really been a big fan of it. However as a Barsac that one might start a meal with, its a perfect wine, especially when compared to some of the richer Sauternes such as Chateau Lafaurie Peyraguey which I adore but could only imagine having at the end of a meal.

Mark

[rooman]

I actually opened the same wine at our last cabernet blends Auswine offline last year.
I know its a more savoury wine but I remember it a lot sweeter with better acidity then.

I did open a Sauterne once in the middle of a dego with foie Gras and it went down well.
I don't think I would want to do it at the start.
Just curious. What would you drink after you start a meal with a Rieussec or a Daene? I would guess they are not drinking a dry Riesling following this.

Funny enough I wouldn't have any problems jumping from a sweet wine to start a meal back to a dry style. You are effectively starting with an aperitif and pate. If the next or first course of the main meal was a prawn or seafood dish then I would happily move back to a dry riesling. As I recall we had the Barsac in small glasses whilst we were standing around and then once we sat down went to a dry style of wine such as a chardonnay.

Mark

[odyssey]

great to hear about the Rockford cab. Another vote for the 1997 SA vintage. In all honesty, for my palate, this vintage has almost overshadowed the much-hyped 98.

Out of curiousity, what's your opinion on 2007 in Coonawarra?