Bachelor of Applied Science (Wine Science) at Charles Sturt.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Wed May 31, 2006 7:54 pm

Hi,

After a series of events I have decided that I am sick of the degree I am studying at The University of Adelaide. Their latest screw up has resulted in me having to spend another year and a bit at university, studying for a degree I have lost interest in.

I want to keep studying in the field that I am at the moment, and one of the most productive and possibly most rewarding ways to do this is to study wine making. The University of Adelaide have a great course, but they haven't done anything to convince me to stay there, and their degree is four years with the first two years common with viticulture versus a three year wine making degree.

Has anyone started, completed, or thought about this degree? I'll be 22 this year, and I have minimal chemistry and biology background knowledge... but I guess I can learn if I have to. What's the course work, social life, teaching quality and support, etc, like?

Also, it's at Wagga Wagga. I've spent a bit of time there visiting people and driving through, but not living there - does anyone know much about the on campus housing, or what the city itself is like to live in? It's in a convenient spot - the Wagga Wagga to Adelaide drive only takes a day, and it's close to some friends in Canberra and closer to the snow than where I am now...

I've tried a bunch of Googling, but haven't come up with much that's useful to me.

Thanks!

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Wed May 31, 2006 8:43 pm

Steve,

Come over and shag a few sheep.

I'm at Lincoln University studying the Bachelor of Viticulture and Oenology. I'm sure you wouldn't have any dramas bringing credit over. Furthermore, as an Aussie citizen you can jump on board a similar system to HECS meaning you don't have to worry about forking out loads for tuition fees.

In addition, there are some 1500 students at the Uni from memory, so it's real small. Personal attention is great - lecturers actually know you by name. The BVO degree has about 30-40 students each year - a great, tight-knit group. Plus Christchurch is a cool city, with Mt Hutt just down the road for skiing. Flick me an email or pm if you have any queries.

Cheers,

Nayan · Post by **Nayan** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:07 pm

I understand your pain Steve... but you need to brush up on your Google skills. Check this out:

http://www.csu.edu.au/courses/undergrad ... e_science/

PM me if you want a private whinge.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:21 am

Maximus wrote:Steve,

Come over and shag a few sheep.

I'm at Lincoln University studying the Bachelor of Viticulture and Oenology. I'm sure you wouldn't have any dramas bringing credit over. Furthermore, as an Aussie citizen you can jump on board a similar system to HECS meaning you don't have to worry about forking out loads for tuition fees.

In addition, there are some 1500 students at the Uni from memory, so it's real small. Personal attention is great - lecturers actually know you by name. The BVO degree has about 30-40 students each year - a great, tight-knit group. Plus Christchurch is a cool city, with Mt Hutt just down the road for skiing. Flick me an email or pm if you have any queries.

Cheers,

Maximus,

That course looks pretty cool but I want to stay as close to Adelaide as I can. Myself and my friends are at the stage of life where we have a lot of cool stuff to do (a mate of mine is a pilot... "let's fly to... here... for the long weekend" for example) and a bit of spare money and random days off to do what we want. Wagga Wagga isn't too close, but it's a long drive I've done many times and given enough notice I can be back here for an adventure to Coffin Bay in a Cessna 182 to go fishing, or whatever.

The degree you're doing looks interesting, but it looks to be mostly viticulture with a bit of wine making in year 3. Is that the case, or am I reading the subjects completely wrong?

I'd love to live in Christchurch. I've spent about a week there all together, and love the place... but I can't justify leaving Australia to study.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:24 am

Nayan wrote:I understand your pain Steve... but you need to brush up on your Google skills. Check this out:

http://www.csu.edu.au/courses/undergrad ... e_science/

PM me if you want a private whinge.

I know all about the what the degree claims to offer... I've visited the CSU site regularly over the past few years to try to talk myself into it. I used to work with a guy who was doing it part time then completed the final year of it full time, but he's disappeared and can't help me much. The CSU site doesn't really tell me what I wanted to know... it tells me about the degree, but not the quality of the academics or the way the place is run or if the faculty are a bunch of stooges or not, or the social aspects and whatever

If you want, whinge in this thread... I'll probably understand (I'm wanting to quit my second degree in five years without actually getting a degree...) even if nobody else does

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:28 am

Steve,

First year is broad, touching on aspects of vit and wine science; soils/plant science and microbiology/biochemistry. Second year it starts getting fun, growing your own grapes in first semester and making the wine, along with some stats/management subjects. Second semester is again split up, with students usually taking third year papers. Third year there's some flexibility with electives, which lets you choose the direction you wish to take; whether it be vit, marketing/management or wine science.

Fishing trip to a remote location with the use of a Cessna sounds good though!

Cheers,

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:46 am

Uhoh... stats and marketing! The stuff I should have passed but didn't because I had 16 hours notice to drive 18 hours to a supplementary exam, and wasn't told I could get supplementary supplementary exams, event though I asked :evil:

This is part of the reason I want to get out of this degree - the people who decide what the students can and can't do are clowns.

The rest of it sounds useful, and it's certainly something to think about at the same time I think about CSU and their degree. I'll add it to my list of places to check out further.

The Cessna weekends are great. Getting stuck at some remote air strip 40km from a town because the weather is too crap to fly on or fly home, or going fishing on an island for the day, or flying to Melbourne just because we can, or deciding if we should pack more camping gear or more beer in the back of the plane because one of them has to go or we'll be overweight... I can't easily give this up

smithy · Post by **smithy** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:42 am

CSU.
What a great place. Its not Adeliade which has its own pluses and minuses, but generally its a pretty cool spot.
I went there several years ago and my daughter started the winemaking course before swapping to another course.

Facility wise CSU is pretty cool for winemaking with a fairly switched on winery vineyard though I'm not to sure of the extent the students get to play in it.

CSU graduates have a much better tasting and practical skills asspect to their course. Though the political skills to make sensitive comments to someone whose wine taste like crap are often lacking....

Wagga is a bit of an army town but its just so big these days that its not the issue it once was. I'd be a bit reluctant to live on campus as some of it is still pretty basic accomodation and you'd want to check out which suburbs you'd want to live in..some are sensational and some are pretty revolting...you'd be amazed at the little difference in price between the two. Central is nice but you'd have to come up to wagga a fortnight early to organise it. With the new bridge you are only minutes away from the action.

Some suburbs are a fair way out and with fuel it might cost you a fair bit more as well.

What can I say, I loved the course and would do it again in a twink.
Better than Adelide Uni but I 'm probably a bit biased.

Cheers
Smithy

Glen · Post by **Glen** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:53 am

Hi Steve

Personally I hated the drive to CSU (for residentials).

My suggestion would be to commence working in the industry (if you aren't already) and continue by distance education through CSU.
This way you can gain OJT which also greatly assists you in putting into practise what you are learning, earn money, AND stay in Adelaide - it's a win win win!

Failing that, do your private pilots license and fly yourself.

My limited experience of Wagga is that it gets bloody cold in Winter, has one of the best curry houses in Australia, fairly good nightlife, beautiful campus setting, great tutors (at least when I was there - what Malcolm Allen doesn't know about microscopic anything isn't worth knowing).

Another consideration isd that after speaking with a lot of the winemakers throughout the Barossa/McVale, they have a preference for CSU educated students as they tend to be more hands-on.

You may also be interested in this list of other tertiary providers:-

http://www.wineindustryjobs.com.au/public.php?page=crc

vinum · Post by **vinum** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:55 am

Maybe I have misconstued what you have written, but I will go through a few things... The Adelaide oenology course, is a 4 year degree, the first two do share similarities with the viti course. The final 2 consist of greater specificity in winemaking including several subjects which are hands on and a significant practical component in the final year. However a lot is theoretical, which is important.

Both the CSU and Adelaide courses have individual merit, I am assuming that you are trying to defer to winemaking and have been met with several prerequisites and status won't be given? Have you finished your first degree? If so, the post-graduate course at Adelaide maybe an option.

The CSU course is also good, but either way think about what you want to get out of either course. Where you think you be when you finish the course (be it CSU or Adelaide, based on full time).

My suggestion is, if you are unhappy in your current situation with Adelaide, get a job for vintage. That will really sort out how keen you are on working in the industry, that is if you are not already industry based.

I have have started both, and finished one (albeit a fair while ago), consequently if you questions, feel free to ask.

Of topic, Glen, you're a kiwi aren't you?

Regards,
Colin.

Glen · Post by **Glen** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:23 pm

Of topic, Glen, you're a kiwi aren't you?

Yus

Gavin Trott · Post by **Gavin Trott** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:41 pm

Glen wrote:
Of topic, Glen, you're a kiwi aren't you?

Yus

I even did 18 months wine making studies at Charles Sturt, externally (quite some time ago).

The residential schools are great fun (from what I can remember through wine and beer induced haze) and the chemistry and microbiology are not great fun.

Nice place, long boring drive each time.

Not much help I know! :oops:

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:05 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I've been slack in replying but I've read everything and done a fair bit of thinking.

Smithy: Thanks, that's just the sort of stuff I'm interested in. I had heard good things about the winery and vineyard, and the trend is continuing so I guess it has to be pretty good. The town itself is cool - I reckon I could live there easily enough.

Glen: I'm used to long drives and have family living a few hours from Wagga Wagga who get real excited when I drop by and don't want me to leave, so the drive can be roughly a day longer than expected, but it's broken up nicely. I don't work with wine at the moment, but I like the idea of working here and studying there. Something else to think about! The preference for CSU students is also interesting. I've pretty much narrowed the possible courses down to either CSU or Adelaide, with a bias towards CSU.

Vinum: Thanks. That's interesting - I thought the first two years were the same as the viticulture course, not just similar. Whoops! I don't really have any prerequisites from this wine marketing degree - I've plenty of tasting experience and sensory evaluation, but not enough vine or wine work. I've thought about the vintage work, but people I know who have tried reckon it's hard to get into without connections (I have a few loose connections to the Clare Valley, that's about it) and would probably result in having to push back starting studies for another year. Jumping in the not-so-deep end is more my style. I've decided that the wine making thing is what I want to do, so it's now just a matter of doing it

Gavin: Sounds like most university - beer and wine good, boring subjects bad!

Thanks again, everyone. In a couple of months I'm planning to visit CSU and check them out a bit further, and have a talk to the people there about previous academic performances and credit and how they run the place.

vinum · Post by **vinum** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:23 pm

Steve wrote:
Vinum: Thanks. That's interesting - I thought the first two years were the same as the viticulture course, not just similar. Whoops! I don't really have any prerequisites from this wine marketing degree - I've plenty of tasting experience and sensory evaluation, but not enough vine or wine work. I've thought about the vintage work, but people I know who have tried reckon it's hard to get into without connections (I have a few loose connections to the Clare Valley, that's about it) and would probably result in having to push back starting studies for another year. Jumping in the not-so-deep end is more my style. I've decided that the wine making thing is what I want to do, so it's now just a matter of doing it

Steve, this may come across as a little harsh, that it is not my intention, but having never worked in a winery, are you sure you want to be a winemaker? Because in all reality, just becasue you get a winemaking degree, you are still far from qualified as a winemaker. At the best of times working in the industry can be quite challenging. It really is a labourous position (don't get me wrong, i love it, always have done), however 80 hours a week for 3 months a year, knee deep in lees may not be your cup of tea.

Furthermore, it's not hard to get vintage work, you just have to want to work, as there is very little glamour involved with it.

Again I am not trying to rain on your parade, merely pointing out, a few things, before you jump into something which may or may not actually be what you are after. Good luck with your decision.

/off topic again...

Glen, remeber by any chance a small function during res school 95 at EIT, involving a fair bit of Roosters beer? That is if I have the right Glen...

Cheers

Colin.

kirragc · Post by **kirragc** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:14 pm

Just a word of caution with doing distance study.
Over the last 3 years Ive done distance work with CSU and USyd (Orange)

The experience with both has been disappointing.
The content is great CSU especially know what they are doing.

However the support for distance students was non existant
RPL, re-enrolment etc are practically impossible.

To be honest I started to feel that profit was the main motive.

Glen · Post by **Glen** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:47 am

Hey Colin

Yeah it's me. I will send you a pm.