Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

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deejay81
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Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by deejay81 »

Just got back yesterday after visiting McLaren Vale and Barossa for 4 days (1day McLaren Vale 3days Barossa) with Lauren.

Basically all we did was eat and drink (don't really know what else to do there) but I'm certainly not complaining. And we've been once every year over the past 3 years.

1st time in McLaren Vale, and visited 3 wineries and food highlight was at The Elbow Room which was quite, small, great view and pretty good food. Not a huge wine list, and chose some random wine i'd never heard of to match with our food.
WIneries we visited were:

Kays - Their basic wines were quite nice, a few 2011 which fell very short including the Block 6. They had a 2010 Block 6 open which I tried and loved so bought a bottle. Another highlight was their Basket Press Shiraz and the Cuthbert Cabernet which was delicious. only one other group of 2 there and one person behind the counter at the cellar door. The guy (Don) I think it was wasn't too knowledgeable on the wines, but was helpful nonetheless.

Foggo - Herb who is also the winemaker was there to assist us, and he was great. We were the only people there so got to have a nice long chat about wine and life etc... The wines were quite good. Some have too much oak, some maybe a bit too much alcohol, but quite decent and not over priced. Predominately Shiraz and some Grenache. The only white he had was a 2010 chardonnay which has been in a fair bit of oak, but supposedly fermented in a fridge (cold) environment). Never had anything like it, and was complex but didn't seem quite right. We bought half a case of 2010 Red Dodge Shiraz and he threw in a 2010 Chardonnay cause he liked us :) The red dodge had american oak the other shiraz on that "level" had french oak I think.

Olivers Taranga - We got to them just before they closed, so we were the only ones again and went through their full list except for the M53. Overall, quite disappointed and alot of the wines fell short. I liked the 2010 DJ cab though. The 2011 HJ shiraz was ordinary. The have quite a few alternative grapes (Mediterranean stuff) which was interesting but not too appealing to our palates.

Barossa:
I'll start off with the food:
We got stuffed on food each day with the grand highlight being Hentley Farm's Discovery Menu with matching wines (Some ones they have exclusively for the restaurant for the pairing which I thought was quite cool). If you've never been here before. Do it. The experience, the food shat all over everywhere else we've been and will go back next time we are in the area. Oh I also bought a 2008 The Beast Shiraz because they had sold out of the current release 2012 which I thought was better than The Beauty.

Fermentasian - We went here last time and thought it was amazing. But as I said before Hentley Farm was that much better. I;m not knocking the place at all and if you do come to the Barossa, again I feel its a must do. We got about half of the same dishes as last time we came (a year ago), again not complaining. This time we also asked for matching wines, but we werent too happy with the wines they offered but went with it anyway. Next time we'll just order off the list.

The Tasting Room (@ Artisans) - Very fresh food, and a whole lot of it. We were stuffed by the end of it and just sat outside in the sun in a food coma from about half an hour before we could do anything else. we tasted some wines at the cellar door in between bites which was good.

Wineries:
If there are any particular wineries you want to visit (particularly bigger ones) call ahead and get friendly with someone there. It makes the whole experience alot more personal when you get there and sometimes you get special treatment esp if you know or pretend t know about their wines and show interest.

Tscharke: Went on some recommendations from folk here. Very nice small, quiet boutique winery and again we were the only ones there. Another one of those wineries with a few of the alternate varietals that I wasn't particularly fond of. Lauren for some reason wanted their Eva (Frizzante) moscato style. She said she wanted it cause it was low alcohol and refreshing. and a couple of 2013 Gnadenfrei Grenache which was pure yum and would be great with food.

Henschke - Did the VIP tour and tasting - If you are a fan of their wine and you've never done this, then do it. It's really cool how they drive you to the HoG and Mt Ed vineyards in the 4wd and learn about the heritage etc. Emma who was the guide was very informative. The tasting was just as good with generous pours an everything including the premium stuff. The 2010 HoG is just on another level and she gave us 2 pours of that :) Pity we can't afford it otherwise would have purchased. Didn't purchase any wines except for the Eden Valley Riesling because already had a few of the ones we liked at home. Also was really good to do this to avoid the packed tiny cellar door!

Rockford - Was intending to go in but decided against it - too many cars parked out in front which prob = a packed cellar door. We've also been the last 2 times anyway. I'll order the Rod and Spur which is the one i'm interested in via mail order.

Langmeil - Tried to visit here last time, but was over run with tourists, so decided to call in to let them know were were coming a week earlier. So glad we did. Tracy Page (Michael Page's wife from Teusner who we met last time we were here) went through a full tasting including all the premiums. She poured us a generous glass of current vintage Freedom (2012) and took us on a walk through the vineyards including the Freedom vineyard. Was pretty cool to see these and compare to Henshcke. Anyway, the wines were pretty amazing and ended up buying some Valley Floor Shiraz, Jackamans Cab, A bottle of Freedom Shiraz, and their Sparkling Shiraz. Lauren normally dislikes the Red bubbly, but this one really appealed to her palate :) Oh also there was a dead stump that had been cut off from one of the Freedom vines that was just lying there. We asked if we could have it to display at home and they more than happily allowed us to take it :)

Turkey Flat - We visit here every year, and have always been lucky with no one else in the cellar door except us. Jo was working there this time and talked to us about the new upcoming release of "2012 The Ancestor" which I going to be made from only their ancestor vines which sounds pretty cool. I've signed my name up for a couple. Went through the tasting and not sure if we had palate fatigue but the 2013 range was not really doing the job for us. We usually buy every year, but didn't this time round. Also she informed us the 2012 Cab was the last year they will sell this as it's now gone due to disease :(. I've got plenty of 2010 and 2012 Butchers block reds and Shiraz to last me though so all good. After telling Jo about the other walk throughs we did at Langmeil and Henschke, she was more than happy to take us through their vineyard and their ancestor vines. Again very informative and cool to just experience it all.

EDIT - Forgot about Greenock Creek - Most of these wines were tough to drink. Not too inspiring. Tiny but quaint cellar door. Was a quick tasting and didn't buy.

For accommodation we stayed at the Novatel, I guess it was stock standard commercial hotel style nothing special, nothing particularly bad. Perhaps slightly overpriced.

Overall, we went to less wineries, but the quality of our visits were much better than last time. And the food was great and plentiful. Daily food and wine coma seemed to be the theme. I'm also going to start whitening my teeth after this Friday (the Rockford Wendouree Mt Ed) night.

Took quite a few photo's of various vineyards, food and wine as well, and if anyone is interested will upload some.

Cheers,

David
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Scotty vino
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by Scotty vino »

nice report.
I was in MVale on the weekend and visited Paxton, Gemtree and S.C. Pannell.
Nice Chardonnay at Paxton (the thomas) and liked the 2010 Nebbiolo at S.C. Pannell.
(went thru a few bottles at lunch for a mates 40th)
Some Gemtree stuff not bad but was too busy flapping the gums to remember what was what.
Surprisingly I bought nothing.
I found all three tastings a bit too long but it's hard to focus when you're in a large group.
I noticed S.C. had their JW trophy up in lights which was novel.
A few of us commented that the S.C. Pannell cellar door was just like the old tapestry wines cellar door.
Funny that as tapestry had moved out and S.C. moved in.
I can't keep up. :shock:
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by griff »

Thanks for the great reports. Would love to see the old vines!
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by sjw_11 »

deejay81 wrote:Turkey Flat - We visit here every year, and have always been lucky with no one else in the cellar door except us. Jo was working there this time and talked to us about the new upcoming release of "2012 The Ancestor" which I going to be made from only their ancestor vines which sounds pretty cool.

David


Thanks for the notes.

I saw this announcement from Turkey Flat and I was a bit peeved as I have bought some of the 2012 Shiraz and now I find out that perhaps the best fruit is no longer making it into that as they have decided to do this super-cuvee.

Did you happen to ask about that at all? I am curious their response... might email them.
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by deejay81 »

sjw_11 wrote:
I saw this announcement from Turkey Flat and I was a bit peeved as I have bought some of the 2012 Shiraz and now I find out that perhaps the best fruit is no longer making it into that as they have decided to do this super-cuvee.

Did you happen to ask about that at all? I am curious their response... might email them.


Nope I didn't ask, but it's a good question, i'll shoot them an email and see what they come back with.

griff wrote:Would love to see the old vines!

HoG
HoG2.jpg

HoG1.jpg

HoG.jpg
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by deejay81 »

Turkey Flat

tf1.jpg


tf2.jpg
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by deejay81 »

Langmeil

LM1.jpg


lm2.jpg



And also cause i thought it was pretty cool (and delicious) The oysters from our Hentley Farm lunch in a Chicken broth and passionfruit puree/sauce
Not sure what the smokey thing was but when the chef poured the water? into the bowl all this smog came out, prob liquid nitrogen, but wasnt cold (or hot), either way, it couvered our whole table in it and the effects were pretty wow!
hf1.jpg
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by JamieBahrain »

Yes, I think Turkey Flat's success was not going down the path of single vineyard wines. Anyways.
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Michael McNally
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by Michael McNally »

A lot depends on what is being done at the other end as well, surely. If they take out a barrel or two of Ancestor, but also take out the bottom few barrels that would have made the Estate label blend cut then the overall result might not be that noticeable. They could maintain the integrity of the Estate label. Mind you it won't have that fruit in it......

But perhaps we TF lovers are being selfish. Isn't the pursuit of terroir the Holy Grail of winemaking? Shouldn't we be celebrating these heirlooms?

It's their call I suppose.

Cheers

Michael
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by sjw_11 »

Michael McNally wrote:A lot depends on what is being done at the other end as well, surely. If they take out a barrel or two of Ancestor, but also take out the bottom few barrels that would have made the Estate label blend cut then the overall result might not be that noticeable. They could maintain the integrity of the Estate label. Mind you it won't have that fruit in it......

But perhaps we TF lovers are being selfish. Isn't the pursuit of terroir the Holy Grail of winemaking? Shouldn't we be celebrating these heirlooms?

It's their call I suppose.

Cheers

Michael


My main complaint Michael was that they have never made this wine before, and didn't announce it until months and months after they started selling the estate wine for this year.

If you dilute the quality and we know about it thats up to them and tough luck for us... if they dilute the quality and don't tell us... thats misleading in my opinion.
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by griff »

Thanks for the photos!
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by Michael McNally »

sjw_11 wrote:My main complaint Michael was that they have never made this wine before, and didn't announce it until months and months after they started selling the estate wine for this year.

If you dilute the quality and we know about it thats up to them and tough luck for us... if they dilute the quality and don't tell us... thats misleading in my opinion.


Ahhhh, I see. They should have had "Ancestor Vines Shiraz: Coming Soon" on their mailers then. I am assuming the timing of the release is due to longer in barrels, to give it a bit more age and so on.

Hard to see how they could frame a preemptive message like that, though without undermining their brand.

Doesn't look like I have bought the 2012 yet, so I should give it a burl!

Cheers

Michael
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deejay81
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by deejay81 »

Still waiting on an email response but regarding oak differences and bottling dates between their Shiraz vs Ancestor Shiraz:

2012 Shiraz - 20 Months matured in new & seasoned French oak hogsheads, 33% of which are new.
Bottled December 2013

2012 Ancestor Shiraz - 28 months in 50% new French oak
Bottled August 2014
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by n4sir »

sjw_11 wrote:
Michael McNally wrote:A lot depends on what is being done at the other end as well, surely. If they take out a barrel or two of Ancestor, but also take out the bottom few barrels that would have made the Estate label blend cut then the overall result might not be that noticeable. They could maintain the integrity of the Estate label. Mind you it won't have that fruit in it......

But perhaps we TF lovers are being selfish. Isn't the pursuit of terroir the Holy Grail of winemaking? Shouldn't we be celebrating these heirlooms?

It's their call I suppose.

Cheers

Michael


My main complaint Michael was that they have never made this wine before, and didn't announce it until months and months after they started selling the estate wine for this year.

If you dilute the quality and we know about it thats up to them and tough luck for us... if they dilute the quality and don't tell us... thats misleading in my opinion.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5369&p=38215

The proprortion of the Ancestor Vines fruit going into Turkey Flat has been shrinking for years (100% in 1990, only 15% in 2004), it's probably at the stage now that there is negligible difference by removing what's left to make this new flagship. The newer vines are probably hitting their peak now, so it's a good opportunity to do this and cash in.

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by sjw_11 »

n4sir wrote:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5369&p=38215

The proprortion of the Ancestor Vines fruit going into Turkey Flat has been shrinking for years (100% in 1990, only 15% in 2004), it's probably at the stage now that there is negligible difference by removing what's left to make this new flagship. The newer vines are probably hitting their peak now, so it's a good opportunity to do this and cash in.

My 2c,
Ian


Thanks for the colour Ian, very interesting.
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by mjs »

Great notes. Did a Barossa trip two weeks ago as well (B7) and will post some notes soon. Did a tasting at Hentley Farm with some snacks including the oysters. The "smoke" was just water over dry ice chips in the bottom of the dish, so just the CO2 going gaseous.
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by deejay81 »

Got a response from Turkey Flat Re the Ancestor vs Shiraz:

".... the release of The Ancestor certainly does not dilute the quality of the Turkey Flat Shiraz. The Ancestor was produced from just 2 barrels during an exceptional vintage – the criteria for the Shiraz classification to go into the Turkey Flat Shiraz has, and always will remain the same. Only A class fruit will ever go into the making of the Turkey Flat Shiraz, the 2 barrels for the Ancestor stood out over & above the others and it really would have been a shame to blend this out where the small volume would honestly make very, very little difference (if any) to the final shiraz blend."

Don't really know what to make of this, except it sounds like they've grabbed 2 barrels of their Shiraz and just aged it longer (maybe 1 barrel new French, and 1 barrel seasoned French oak to make up the 50% new French oak), then labeled this "The Ancestor" and charging $150 as opposed to the $45ish they charge for their standard Shiraz...
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by Polymer »

It isn't too unusual...it is called a barrel selection and quite a few places do it...You have barrel variation and they blend that out..but sometimes you get extraordinary barrels and they'll release something else.

Two Hands does this for their Ares..for example....

I don't look at as a negative though....

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

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I guess if it is such a small quantity, it is not such a big thing.
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by swirler »

Barrel selection goes on everywhere. Wines (like John Riddoch) are often made like this. Usually, nobody every complains that Black Label suffers due to this. Well, one or two on this board might :P

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by Polymer »

Well, I'd look at it like...if the same source material made an extraordinary wine, the material used for the normal wine was pretty good to start with. And they're right, blending in a barrel or two into the many that are made isn't going to make a difference to the normal wine..

This is different than a fruit selection where they're sorting out the best fruit and leaving the ordinary stuff...

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

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Polymer wrote:Well, I'd look at it like...if the same source material made an extraordinary wine, the material used for the normal wine was pretty good to start with. And they're right, blending in a barrel or two into the many that are made isn't going to make a difference to the normal wine..

This is different than a fruit selection where they're sorting out the best fruit and leaving the ordinary stuff...


Selections happen at all stages. 'Good grapes' don't always make good wine.

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

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swirler wrote:Barrel selection goes on everywhere. Wines (like John Riddoch) are often made like this. Usually, nobody every complains that Black Label suffers due to this. Well, one or two on this board might :P

Sort of. IMO, Wynns do a fantastic job of keeping individual parcels whole, particularly cabernet, e.g. Alex84, Johnson's and Child's Blocks. Did a blending at CD back in May of cab from these three blocks that were eventually going to go into 2014 BL. JR might come from a small number of any barrels from a variety of vineyards/blocks. Clearly the most appropriate best wine (from best fruit, vinification and barrel ageing) goes into either stuff like JR, or individual vineyard labels. If there is a JR, then the wine is generally better anyway, so you can't say that BL suffers.

Obviously there might be a preferred overall oak treatment for one particular label over another, so its not a case of anything can go into anything..
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by Polymer »

swirler wrote:
Polymer wrote:Well, I'd look at it like...if the same source material made an extraordinary wine, the material used for the normal wine was pretty good to start with. And they're right, blending in a barrel or two into the many that are made isn't going to make a difference to the normal wine..

This is different than a fruit selection where they're sorting out the best fruit and leaving the ordinary stuff...


Selections happen at all stages. 'Good grapes' don't always make good wine.


I agree..but good grapes have a greater chance of making good wine than bad grapes.....And Grange is a perfect example of a wine made from everywhere but using the top grapes out there...

But specifically on selection..they do weed out the bad bits..but in some cases better parcels are left for a different wine even if it is the same vineyard....

So if we applied the top half of quality to one wine and the bottom half to the other, you can likely assume that impacted the quality of the lower wine as it had inferior material.

If we used all the same grapes and just buy chance a barrel (maybe it was the magic barrel) was extraordinary, the exclusion of that barrel isn't impacting the quality of the normal wine. In fact, I'd probably say the fact that a barrel came out so unusually good is a good sign for the rest of the wines...but I could be wrong there too...

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by swirler »

Bit like Port/Produttori/etc. Are the LBV best in non-declared/single vineyard/etc years where they get the best stuff. Or do the best vintages produce the best stuff from top to bottom?

As in life generally, things are probably more complex than simple generalisations.

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by Michael McNally »

swirler wrote:As in life generally, things are probably more complex than simple generalisations.


Amen to this Swirler!

Cheers

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

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Michael, I always regarded you as the wisest voice on here :D

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by AaronL »

Think of it like this. Turkey Flat produces about 10,000 cases of shiraz each vintage. If they take out 2 barrels (50 cases) then that's only 0.5% of total shiraz production.

If you want to see if you can taste the difference, pour yourself a 200ml glass of wine, then pour another 200ml glass alongside with 1ml of ultra premium wine added. Then taste side by side. If you can tell the difference, repeat this exercise until you can't :)
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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

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Thus speaketh a winemaker? :lol:

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Re: Some short notes from McLaren Vale/Barossa Trip

Post by mjs »

swirler wrote:As in life generally, things are probably more complex than simple generalisations.


Is that a simple generalisation? :lol: :lol:
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