TN: Joh Jos Prum & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
TN: Joh Jos Prum & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
Last month I went to a tasting of Rieslings from Germany, the majority from the renowned maker Joh Jos Prum; due to a last second change in venue the wines were tasted in a relatively dark room, which made judging the colours of the wines difficult (as well as taking photos!).
2007 Schafer-Frohlich Bockenauer Felseneck Riesling Dry, Nahe (cork): 13% alc. Bright straw colour with some spritz. Still some sulphur on the nose, slightly cheesy, with sweet lime, some honey and talc, faintly herbal with breathing, followed by marzipan characters, a little Sauternes-like at times. The palate has some caramel/bluegum honey sweetness matching crisp apple fruit, finishing dry, tingly and minerally. Needs time to improve, although I don't think it will ever be outstanding.
2009 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Kabinett #20, Mosel (cork): 9% alc. Very bright straw. Obvious sulphur characters dominate the nose with struck match, sandshoe rubber and durian characters; a sweet entry leads to a palate with apple and passionfruit and a grippy mid-palate, finishing crisp but also very slightly bitter. I suspect the phenolics are a little high (skin contact?) - overall the balance isn't as good as the previous vintage.
2008 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Kabinett #17, Mosel (cork): 8% alc. Very bright straw/green. Still obvious sulphur here on the nose with sandshoe rubber, but there's also sweet apple cider characters emerging; the palate's well balanced, full of juicyfruit gum, lemon sherbet and lime, sweet but crisp, finishing long and minerally.
2007 Willi Schaefer Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Kabinett #9 (cork): 8% alc. Pale straw/green. Sweet, perfumed nose full of lemon blossoms and lemon sherbet; a sweet lemon entry leads to a palate full of apple and lemonade and subtle grip, finishing with notable elevated acidity on the finish.
2009 Joh. Jos. Prum Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese #13, Mosel (cork): 8% alc. Very pale green. Obvious sulphur here, with durian and sandshoe rubber characters; sweet apple on entry leads to lemon sherbet and powdered chalk, the crunchy acidity making for a lovely texture throughout its considerable length. Impressive.
2009 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese #24, Mosel (cork): 8% alc. Very pale green. Struck match at first, leading to lemon blossoms and lemon sherbet on the nose; the palate's rounder than the Zeltinger Sonnenuhr, seemingly riper with higher acidity through its core and equally impressive length. Not much between these two wines - I marginally prefer this one.
2007 Emrich-Schanleber Monzinger Halenberg Spatlese, Nahe (cork): 9.5% alc. Bright green/straw. Sweet talcum powder, lemon sherbet and frangipani, becoming slightly biscuity with breathing; the palate's just as sweet and chalky, with lovely grip on the finish. Very good, a major step up on the previous wines.
2007 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese #24, Mosel (cork): 8% alc. Bright straw/green with noticeable spritz. Spicy nose with sugary biscuits and ground spices, which flows through to the powerful, chalky palate, full of sweet apples and racy acidity all the way through the lovely, long finish. One of the highlights of the tasting, my third favourite wine overall.
2009 Zilliken (Forstmeister Geltz) Saarburger Rausch Riesling Spatlese, Saar (cork): 7.5% alc. Bright straw/green. Seems to have some signs of botrytis on the nose and palate, a sweet and exotic bouquet of rose water and Turkish delight; a sweet entry of apricot leads to a chalky/grippy mid-palate and finish, not quite as integrated as the following vintage.
2010 Zilliken (Forstmeister Geltz) Saarburger Rausch Riesling Spatlese, Saar (cork): 7.5% alc. Bright straw/green. More spice here than the 2009 vintage, some marzipan and coconut characters matching rose water/holy water on the nose; the palate's fat but well balanced, full of sweet apricot and spice, finishing with zippy, clean acidity.
2001 Weingut Max Ferd. Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese #21, Mosel (cork): 8.5% alc. Pale straw/green. The nose has sugared biscuits and touches of hazelnut and car rubber, but also damp cork taint that badly scalps the palate. This was the second bottle we've tried in the last few years that has been buggered, and unfortunately the Importer has a very bad reputation of refusing to replace corked bottles!
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese #14, Mosel (cork): 7.5% alc. Pale straw. Sweet nose full of mango, marzipan and smashed up, sugar coated biscuits; the palate's sweet without being cloying, crisp apples with lovely balancing acidity, finishing long and refreshingly dry. An excellent wine, my second favourite tonight.
2005 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese #28, Mosel (cork): 8% alc. Bright straw with noticeable spritz. Spicy and sweet nose, biscuity with a touch of apricot, then mango, ground nutmeg and vanilla cheesecake; the palate's again sweet without being cloying, with a powerful mid-palate and chalky, crisp finish. The most complex and complete wine of the tasting; top marks.
2010 Schloss Lieser Brauneberger Juffer Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese #11, Mosel (cork): 7% alc. Bright straw with obvious spritz. Quite volatile and sweet, boiled lollies, fennel, nail polish and airplane glue; the palate's fat and seems extremely ripe, with salty caramel and screeching acid way out of balance resulting in a hot wine that's not enjoyable. Will it come around?
2007 Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Riesling Auslese #1 375ml, Mosel (cork): 7.5% alc. Bright straw. This starts off sweet and slightly volatile, liquored apples and spice with touches of honey and nail polish, with breathing there's bright redcurrants and smoke. The palate's very high in acidity with the same redcurrant characters, slightly gamey too with salty caramel; I swear if this was served up to me blindfolded I'd probably pick it as a red wine! A very odd way to finish the tasting.
Cheers,
Ian
Last edited by n4sir on Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Forget about goodness and mercy, they're gone.
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
Thanks for the notes Ian. Thankfully some of the producers listed in your post are now moving to screwcap. Although not at the auslese level I'm pretty sure that I've had screwcapped versions of the ziliken, Schaefer, Schaefer-Frolich and Schloss Lieser's.
Cheers
Matt
Cheers
Matt
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
HI Ian,
Great notes, thanks for posting these. A few things that resonated for me:
Schloss Lieser does seem to make bigger riper styles. Its most noticeable when tasted beside Fritz Haag - made by the other Haag brother, and they both get fruit from Brauneberger Juffer. '10 is noted as being a rippingly high acid vintage too.
On the last Willi Schaefer Auslese - I get redcurrant and cherry notes from time to time in the richer, riper auslese sometimes. The intensity level just down tends to be yellow and orange fruits - the 05 JJ Prum Auslese sounds like one of those.
Cheers again
Andrew
Great notes, thanks for posting these. A few things that resonated for me:
Schloss Lieser does seem to make bigger riper styles. Its most noticeable when tasted beside Fritz Haag - made by the other Haag brother, and they both get fruit from Brauneberger Juffer. '10 is noted as being a rippingly high acid vintage too.
On the last Willi Schaefer Auslese - I get redcurrant and cherry notes from time to time in the richer, riper auslese sometimes. The intensity level just down tends to be yellow and orange fruits - the 05 JJ Prum Auslese sounds like one of those.
Cheers again
Andrew
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
Who is the importer who refuses to replace corked bottles?
Name and shame please.
Name and shame please.
Cheers,
David
David
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
dlo wrote:Who is the importer who refuses to replace corked bottles?
Name and shame please.
Yes, please do. And given the consumer protection laws on selling faulty goods, this is very likely against the law. Does anyone know if this is indeed the case when it comes to TCA wine?
I did a search for Weingut Max Ferd. Richter and came up with one online seller in Vic, but won't name them in case they're not the importer....
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
TiggerK wrote:given the consumer protection laws on selling faulty goods, this is very likely against the law. Does anyone know if this is indeed the case when it comes to TCA wine?
It is probably from auction otherwise they would just be returned to the retailer. If it's from auction you can plead your case but it's not against the law to refuse.
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
camw wrote:TiggerK wrote:given the consumer protection laws on selling faulty goods, this is very likely against the law. Does anyone know if this is indeed the case when it comes to TCA wine?
It is probably from auction otherwise they would just be returned to the retailer. If it's from auction you can plead your case but it's not against the law to refuse.
These particular bottles were purchased from an independent Adelaide retailer (who I obviously won't name here because they are a direct competitor of Gavin) - when the presenter returned the first corked bottle, they were offered a replacement with another wine because the importer flat out refused to replace corked bottles. They got the contact details of the importer to take the matter up as they didn't want the retailer to be out of pocket, and this pathetic stance was confirmed after a series of emails - I'm pretty sure the importer is fully aware it contravenes the consumer protection laws, they just don't care.
To be honest I'm not sure if I should name and shame them here, it may potentially be the cause of a massive headache that Gavin doesn't really need.
Cheers,
Ian
Forget about goodness and mercy, they're gone.
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
The importer responsible for Richter is easily googleable - no need to create libel risk by naming them here.
I gave up on Richter years ago, more because they were doing weird things with extreme sugars and low acid levels than TCA issues.
I gave up on Richter years ago, more because they were doing weird things with extreme sugars and low acid levels than TCA issues.
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
n4sir wrote:I'm pretty sure the importer is fully aware it contravenes the consumer protection laws, they just don't care.
And no-one has reported him or even threatened to? So an importer is free to buy boxes of cooked or corked wine cheaply, sell it at normal retail and never have to refund anyone who complains? Wow, there's a business opportunity.
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
Send it to Sparky at TWE, and hire them to test it... then if it is corked the importer can reimburse you for the lot.
Is it libel, to say "I believe this wine is buggered and they stated to me, in an email, that they do not refund under any condition."?
Maybe we should start a thread "Wine brands not returnable (Aus and overseas)". There's a thread on a UK wine site for corked wines, for everyone's general benefit, so why not one on distributors/brands which don't refund poor bottles?
Cheers, Travis.
Is it libel, to say "I believe this wine is buggered and they stated to me, in an email, that they do not refund under any condition."?
Maybe we should start a thread "Wine brands not returnable (Aus and overseas)". There's a thread on a UK wine site for corked wines, for everyone's general benefit, so why not one on distributors/brands which don't refund poor bottles?
Cheers, Travis.
-
- Posts: 266
- Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:58 pm
Re: TN: Joh Jos Prüm & other German Rieslings 3/2/14
Declaration of bias: JJP are one of top ten wine producers in the world.
The intrusive sulphur is regularly remarked upon, yet the JJP family are adamant they do not add higher levels than other producers.
2010 Mosels have very high acidity but growers are confident they will eventually turn out great. 2011s are far more approachable.
Regards the importer refusing to replace corked bottles: it is not libel if a statement is true. An e-mail audit trail would be sufficient to name them, though Gavin's (private) permission should be sought beforehand, of course.
The TNs are appreciated. All fine producers, although Richter inconsistent so I v. rarely buy his wines.
The intrusive sulphur is regularly remarked upon, yet the JJP family are adamant they do not add higher levels than other producers.
2010 Mosels have very high acidity but growers are confident they will eventually turn out great. 2011s are far more approachable.
Regards the importer refusing to replace corked bottles: it is not libel if a statement is true. An e-mail audit trail would be sufficient to name them, though Gavin's (private) permission should be sought beforehand, of course.
The TNs are appreciated. All fine producers, although Richter inconsistent so I v. rarely buy his wines.