Expanding my French collection

[catchnrelease]

Hey guys, I'm looking to start getting into/serious about buying, cellaring and drinking French wines. For the most part, my cellar is made up of Australian and New Zealand varietals. Now, I have a few French bottles, along with other countries, here and there in the cellar already, but does anyone have any beginner-ish tips for where to look and what to get? I know the basics of French grape juice, but a lot of my knowledge is about what each region makes and what they're famous for - and considering I don't have a great deal of disposable income the Romanee-Conti's and Rothschild's are not what I'm looking at getting. My typical budget is $20-30 per bottle, which may not be enough for good French stuff, however I am happy to spend more (up to $50-60) if it's justified. Does anyone have some personal favourites in that price range? My taste is pretty diverse, I like smoother, fruitier reds and drier whites (not a massive fan of grassy notes, though), however I'm not too interested in Champagne at the present moment.

I know I'm asking pretty vague and general stuff, but feel free to throw whatever you know at me!

Alex

[dave vino]

It's probably not worth the disappointment trying to find decent Frenchies in that price bracket esp for Bordeaux and Burgundy. With our taxes/shipping costs etc, you are essentially buying a $8 bottle of wine.

I'd be more inclined to dive into German Riesling in the $25-$40 range.

But if you really want French you could look to Cotes Du Rhone, Cru Beaujolais, Chenin Blancs (Vouvray), you can get some decent drops ranging from $20-$30.

[Michael R]

Hi Alex

A little harder to find, but worth seeking out are Jura wines. Some (definitely not all) whites can be somewhat oxidative, but intentionally so. The reds are also excellent (Trousseau, Poulsards etc) and are somewhat similar Pinot/Burg.
Like Dave said, your money gets chewed up quickly on shipping and WET, but you should still find some crackers for sub $60.
Its a region i know plenty about, but dont have time to list producers, however when you find the online distributors etc, they will guide you on the various styles from their producers.

Another to consider are wines from Languedoc. I've only recently started trying them, so at the start of the learning curve myself but the reds have a rustic, tannic quality that i'm really enjoying.

If you like Riesling, you can readily find some quality dry drops from Alsace in most decent wine shops.

[TrickyH]

I embarked on a similar journey just prior to Christmas. With the assistance of a couple of retailers and tips from this forum I purchased a couple of bottles of French wine in the range $25 to $200.
I haven't tried them all (waiting for cooler weather) but the cheaper ones have been less than impressive. I have heard others speak highly of the Guigal Cotes du Rhone but for me it was flat and a bit jammy.

Fortunately a couple of the retailers encouraged me to explore some Italian wines - these have suited my palate much better. I have only tried sub $60 bottles and haven't been disappointed. Particularly liking the Ripasso style from Valpolicella and about to take the plunge with some $100 bottles.

Having said that, the wines that have really excited me lately have been some local (Barossa, Adelaide Hills and McLaren Vale) Pinot's and Organic Shiraz's. These are obviously a different style of wine and intended to be consumed much younger but they have had a freshness and vibrancy that really appeals.

As dave_vino pointed out you are paying a double premium for French wine: taxes plus perception prestige.
My point is, that I think you should consider why you want to get into cellaring/drinking French wine. If it's for investment or being able to impress dinner guests then I don't think you will be able to do that at your price point - ie the palate won't match the expectation.
For me I am discovering that spending more money (ie buying French wine) isn't the answer to the ennui I was feeling towards wine, but the answer might lie closer to home than expected.

[simon1980]

WET is a killer. I have brought some French wine in before, and you can basically double the initial purchase price. Think 5%+29% (on the 5%)+10%(on the 5% and the 29%). I best not get ranting about the taxation of wines in Australia...suffice to say it discourages purchase of overseas products.

May I suggest you make friends with lots of people travelling from Europe...?

simon1980

[The fish]

Noting the above comments about the costs associated with importing wines from Europe in general my advice would be to find some reputable importers who focus on quality - not neccessarily on the big names.

I've managed to find a few who bring in decent CdRs for sometimes less than $20 a bottle and interesting Booj in the $20-35 range and these often serve as the more premium quaffers in my house. For me at least, the approach to production (low sulphur,no other preservatives and almost but not quite biodynamic) along with the actual vintage conditions have been pointers to some superb wines.

Cheers
Matt aka the fish

[catchnrelease]

Thanks guys, it seems that the disappointment from ~$30 bottles is the consensus online as well. Instead I may focus more on buying very small amounts of better bottles in the $50-80 range, as in half a dozen a year total. I've found a place called Bordeaux Shippers which are local to Sydney - they have a limited selection but it seems they focus on getting in quality over having a massive range. Does anyone have experience with these guys? Obviously they only get Bordeaux varietals, but I may purchase 2 or 3 bottles of their better stuff within my price range.

Italy, Germany and Spain are other places I would like to explore, but one country at a time so I don't go broke!

[ticklenow1]

Thanks guys, it seems that the disappointment from ~$30 bottles is the consensus online as well. Instead I may focus more on buying very small amounts of better bottles in the $50-80 range, as in half a dozen a year total. I've found a place called Bordeaux Shippers which are local to Sydney - they have a limited selection but it seems they focus on getting in quality over having a massive range. Does anyone have experience with these guys? Obviously they only get Bordeaux varietals, but I may purchase 2 or 3 bottles of their better stuff within my price range.

Italy, Germany and Spain are other places I would like to explore, but one country at a time so I don't go broke!

I won't lie, I have very limited experience with Foreign Wine. I have tried plenty of the $20-$30 French reds (commonly available ones anyway) and in all honesty, there is much better value in Aussie wine at that price point. I have had much better luck with Spanish wines up to about $50, but have had a few very nice ones at sub $30. They are getting easier to find as well. Plus with the Aussie dollar starting to drop, foreign wine will no doubt edge up in price again.

Having said all that, I've had some very impressive Spanish and French wines at much dearer price points. A Jean Louis Chave Hermitage is probably close to the best wine I've ever had. But at between $400 and $500 here in Australia, that was probably a once in a lifetime thing for me.

Good Luck on your journey and if you find any little gems, please be sure to post on here as I for one would be very interested in any special surprises you may find.

Cheers
Ian

[Mivvy]

What is it about French wines that makes you want to cellar them? If wanting to try Euro/old world stuff, then maybe buying a bit to try from France/Spain/Italy at your price point would be best to see what you like. Especially to compare against each other and also what you like from Aust/NZ.

My personal faves at that price are Italian Barbera, and French Cotes du Rhone (Tardieu Laurent for example). Otherwise I stick to ANZ stuff. Getting above $50 a bottle then starts to become a bit more of a choice but still Burgundy or Bordeaux don't figure.

[catchnrelease]

What is it about French wines that makes you want to cellar them?

Curiosity and optimism.

[catchnrelease]

I have had much better luck with Spanish wines up to about $50, but have had a few very nice ones at sub $30. They are getting easier to find as well. Plus with the Aussie dollar starting to drop, foreign wine will no doubt edge up in price again.

Interesting, do you have any memorable bottles or suggestions?

[Phil H]

Hi Alex
I have been in the same situation as you. I agree with all the posts, as trying to find value for money with French Wine, it is very difficult. I was about to give up, however late last year I was fortunate to attend a French Wine Tasting.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13528#p110700
This restored my interest, and there are hidden gems out there. Trying to find them makes it more challenging. Hopefully this event will be repeated late in 2014. I have also attended numerous other tastings in Sydney featuring French wine hosted by both large and small retailers. As mentioned there are also smaller importers that do all the hard work for you.
In summary for under $60, you can buy some exceptional Australian wine, however it is always good to expand your horizons and try something different but not necessarily better. Please let us know what you discover

Regards
Phil

[Duncan Disorderly]

France is a massive producer and while Bordeaux and Burgundy is now prohibitively expensive, there are plenty of other appellations/areas of better value worth investigating like Chinon, Jura, Alsace, Beaujolais (wines from the villages of Morgon and Cote de Brouilly are personal faves), Cahors, Corbieres, Provence, Bandol, Northern and Southern Rhone, Vouvray etc. The key though is to do a bit of research as vintages tend to differ more than here and the appellation system can be a bit confusing at first. Another positive is that with the proliferation of web sites devoted to wine, from luminaries like Jancis to the many humble bloggers and of course Cellartracker, there is usually some information about all but the most obscure wines.

Bon chance...

PS Try Living Wines for Domaine Terres Dorees (J P Brun) and others...

[Mike Hawkins]

I'm not too interested in Champagne at the present moment.

Alex

Wash your mouth out with soap

[catchnrelease]

Please let us know what you discover

After reading tasting notes from n4sir on cheaper French bottles I tried a bottle of 2010 M. Chapoutier Crozes-Hermitage - not bad! For $25 can't complain, definitely drinking well now, and I've got another in the cellar to open in a few years if it lasts. Cork was not in relatively good shape for a young wine but not so bad to affect the wine. Not a mind blowing drop but definitely very enjoyable, would recommend it to people who want an every-day-drink-with-dinner wine - even if it started to fall apart a few hours after opening.

Also thanks for all the advice guys, where do you guys source your French wines from as well? Online or smaller local stores?

[TrickyH]

I'm not too interested in Champagne at the present moment.

Alex

Wash your mouth out with soap

Yes, that gives the same effect as drinking champagne for me too

[sjw_11]

I'm not too interested in Champagne at the present moment.

Alex

Wash your mouth out with soap

Yes, that gives the same effect as drinking champagne for me too

Breathe Mike!! ... Leave it alone - its one less buyer pushing up the prices

[ticklenow1]

I have had much better luck with Spanish wines up to about $50, but have had a few very nice ones at sub $30. They are getting easier to find as well. Plus with the Aussie dollar starting to drop, foreign wine will no doubt edge up in price again.

Interesting, do you have any memorable bottles or suggestions?

2004 Vina Muriel Rioja Gran Reserva can be had for about $40 and should only get better for at least 5 and possibly 10 years.
2010 Bodegas Borsao Garnacha Campo de Borja Tres Picos goes for about $20 and is nice cheap drinking that should go for a few years in the cellar. Not a long termer though.
2007 Herederoes del Marques de Riscal Rioja Reserva also goes for about $30

I've had several more but can't remember the names in all honesty

I know Rens was raving about the 2004 Marques de Murietta Castillo Ygay Gran Reserva that goes for $62. I bought a couple on his recommendation and I'll leave those in the cellar for a few years.

Like I said though, I'm no expert and have only dipped my toes in the water of Foreign wines. And mostly unsuccessfully too!

Cheers
Ian

[catchnrelease]

2004 Vina Muriel Rioja Gran Reserva can be had for about $40 and should only get better for at least 5 and possibly 10 years.
2010 Bodegas Borsao Garnacha Campo de Borja Tres Picos goes for about $20 and is nice cheap drinking that should go for a few years in the cellar. Not a long termer though.
2007 Herederoes del Marques de Riscal Rioja Reserva also goes for about $30

Thanks mate, I'll look into those!

[Mark Carrington]

There are four French regions which <might> fit the budget: Loire, Alsace, Southern Rhône & South West France. The latter produces wines of distinctive character. Jura above is a great shout but price maybe an issue & availability an issue. I suspect supply for the regions I mentioned will be tricky too but in UK (not much help) they are a source of real value. More than happy to comment on specific wines but your best reference material is the Hugh Johnson 2014 wine annual, which i saw was available in Oz. The recommendations are utterly reliable. Happy hunting.

[Andy.L]

Hi Alex,

I agree on save up and buy less of the $60-$80 range. If you are interested in Bordeaux, there are plenty to choose from, although I had to ask whether you had tried any aged bordeaux? From 7 years old plus, even better 10+... If you are just wanting to try at this stage, maybe get a bottle from each region (Margaux, St Emillon etc) and see where your palate take you, just remember they do need the age to show their best, depending on chateau/s ofcourse.


Cheers
Andy

[Andy.L]

oh forgot to mention vintage is important as well

Cheers
Andy

[catchnrelease]

Thanks Andy, I've currently got a 2009 Chateau Couhins-Lurton, 2009 Les Colombiers de Feytit Clinet and 2009 Chateau la Haye in the cellar. The Les Colombiers de Feytit Clinet is supposed to be (according to the people I bought it from, who specialise in importing Bordeaux wines) a earlier drinking style, so I might open that in 1-2 years to get a taste of it. The others should be good after 8-10 years aging.