What are your worst experiences with wine faults?

[dan_smee]

I am hearing more and more about people who have had bad experiences with corks / other faults, and the debate rages on re cork vs screwcap.

I have been very lucky to have had only 2 particularly bad experiences with wine faults, and some near misses/underwhelming, but not faulty bottles. It seems by the day, the law of averages is about to catch up to me with one of my 'special' bottles one day going to strike me down.

funnily enough, the two wines I've ever opened with TCA were on the same night. I mean, i know one was TCA (wet cardboard, mushrooms and nail polish nose) - that was a Wynn's Black Label Cabernet Sauvignon 1998 at Xmas 2012. The other was a cooked and heavily oxidised (what did I expect, buying from an auction site not known for selling wine) bottle of Tyrrell's Vat 8 1987.

[crusty2]

1962 Penfolds Bin 60A - TCA.

[AaronL]

1995 Leeuwin Art Series Chardonnay - Was the most expensive bottle I had purchased at the time. Made me sad....... embarassingly sad . I've learnt I just need to accept it on the day and battle it out with the producer/retailer later.

[George Krashos]

The corked 1991 Wynns Centenary at the last offline. Everyone was devastated.

-- George Krashos

[dan_smee]

1995 Leeuwin Art Series Chardonnay - Was the most expensive bottle I had purchased at the time. Made me sad....... embarassingly sad . I've learnt I just need to accept it on the day and battle it out with the producer/retailer later.

That has always interested me as well:

What is the protocol with faults? I assume retailers usually guarantee what they sell - how long do you have to return it? What about taking it into the shop?

[rens]

All 6 bottles in a 6 pack of Cahors terribly corked-Auction buy.
A 6 pack of 1999 Dead Arm, all badly heat effected-Auction buy.
A single bottle of the 1999 Dead arm badly corked.
2011 Brisbane city flood going through my entire collection (not a wine fault, but still left a bad taste).

[AaronL]

Yes you have the option of returning either to the retailer or producer. The tricky part is how good the customer service is of either the retailer or producer. It definitely pays to have a good relationship with the producer / retailer so paying a litle bit more to your independent retailer is certainly worthwhile. If you do strike a faulty wine:

1. Do not drink anymore that you have to. Refunds aren't going to be likely if you drink most of the bottle before returning it.
2. Put the cork/screwcap on immediately.
3. Contact your retailer/producer as soon as possible. Oxidation will hide TCA if there is going to be a taste test. They will let you know how to proceed.

Other things to note

1. TCA test/analysis is expensive.
2. Sometimes you're just not going to get that bottle replaced regardless (think international wine purchase from auction)

Hope this helps.

[shauno]

Yes you have the option of returning either to the retailer or producer.

I've never tried to return a bottle, as the only corked wine I've owned had sat in the cellar for 3+ years before opening - could you really turn up and say "I bought this 4 years ago & it's off"? I doubt I could find the receipt!

[ross67]

1996 Penfolds Grange unfortunately about 4 weeks ago.
So underwelming it was not funny. Cork perfect though.
Langtons purchase back in 2008. Cellared in my Eurocave since purchase..... but who knows where before then.

I bought 2 bottles so hopefully a better result on the next '96.

ross

[Duncan Disorderly]

It's not really a fault as such, but significant bottle variation (like mentioned above) can be pretty annoying, particularly when you open a bottle at a dinner party and it doesn't live up to expectations.

Other than that, bretty wines, particularly ones from Europe. If I want metallic tang I can drink beer... from a can.

[TiggerK]

Yes you have the option of returning either to the retailer or producer.

I've never tried to return a bottle, as the only corked wine I've owned had sat in the cellar for 3+ years before opening - could you really turn up and say "I bought this 4 years ago & it's off"? I doubt I could find the receipt!

If it's really TCA affected, some wineries will accept it and replace it, no matter who it was bought from. It was faulty right from bottling really, so how you stored it is not the issue, and they know it. Not all are helpful, but many will be happy to maintain good customer relations. I know Petaluma, Henschke, Penfolds and a few other big names have all done this recently for friends of mine with old TCA bottles. Sometimes replaced with same vintage, sometimes with current vintage or equivalent quality level.

Of course, heat affected, 'scalped' (flat, tasteless), tired or bretty wines etc are a very different matter, and caveat emptor.

Cheers
Tim

[Mahmoud Ali]

I've not had the kind of bad experience that others seem to have had over the years. Maybe, like Dan, it's all about the law of averages.

Most recently there were two bad bottles, an '03 Howard Park 'Leston' Shiraz (screwcap) and an '00 Abadia Retuerta 'Rivola', Spain (cork). Neither were corked but both rather smelly and foul, almost cooked, and undrinkable really. I despaired for the other bottles that I have. However, on two seperate occasions a second bottle of these two wines turned out to be faultless and quite nice.

The worst wine experience ever was at a dinner tasting quite a number of years ago. We had three corked wines, an '82 or '85 Bordeaux (Ch Gloria?), an '85 Heitz 'Martha's Vineyard' Cabernet, Napa Valley, and an '82 Opus One, Napa Valley (Mondavi/Rothschild). It was all quite disappointing.

Mahmoud.

[Craig(NZ)]

Visiting a winery called Dingo Creek in Queensland with my Father in Law. Had a red there that was absolutely invaded/ infested/ overtaken by Brett, burnt rubber bands in volumes you wouldnt believe. It was awful. My Father in Law felt so bad as the winery had opened especially for us to visit (a visitors centre had called through to arrange) so he bought a couple. We have pictures of my Wifes Aunty drinking it that night holding her nose as she did haha

It is a story often told now, and was recounted at his wake

Hopefully this isn't seen as competing with Gavin, but get yours today here

http://www.dingocreek.com.au/vineyard/winemakers-notes/

[daver6]

I've had a couple of '90s Penfolds reds ('97 RWT and can't recall the other right now) that were corked. Wine bought at auction.

Contacted Penfolds directly. They arranged and paid for the wine to be sent to them for test and replaced the wine with a current vintage version. I thought that was excellent customer service and while disappointed that I didn't get to drink the wine I wanted on the night, am satisfied with the outcome.

[tpang]

My worst experience was being told by the sommelier at a top Melbourne restaurant that the wine fault I detected was a characteristic of the specific vintage of a particular burgundy blanc. The bottle was taken back after a long argument over my inadequate knowledge of chardonnay and customer rights.

To share a good story, I had brought a 1990 Jaboulet la Chapelle to Adelaide for an anniversary celebration at the Hyatt, and the sommelier came to inform me that it was off which I confirmed. Very disappointed, but was well-surprised to be offered a bottle of CdP (can't remember which label now) close to retail price.

[scribbler]

multiple categories....

Cork issues at 8% (my average for last 4 years); mainly TCA
Not buying white Burgundy due to fears of premox
The bottles kept for many years anticipating something special that alas doesn’t arise (eg 88 Mt Mary)
Insidious low level TCA which stops you enjoying- or buying- that is unrepresentative of other bottles
Arguments about whether a wine has TCA (if you think it has, you’re usually right)
TCA’d OS wines, so no hope of a refund (79 LLC, 88 Pichon, 85 Warres)
The wines you’re nervous opening based on track record -even through replacements are offered afterwards – Tyrrells vat 1, Petaluma reds
Having to carry multiple bottles because your intended bottle may be corked

[TiggerK]

multiple categories....

Cork issues at 8% (my average for last 4 years); mainly TCA
Not buying white Burgundy due to fears of premox
The bottles kept for many years anticipating something special that alas doesn’t arise (eg 88 Mt Mary)
Insidious low level TCA which stops you enjoying- or buying- that is unrepresentative of other bottles
Arguments about whether a wine has TCA (if you think it has, you’re usually right)
TCA’d OS wines, so no hope of a refund (79 LLC, 88 Pichon, 85 Warres)
The wines you’re nervous opening based on track record -even through replacements are offered afterwards – Tyrrells vat 1, Petaluma reds
Having to carry multiple bottles because your intended bottle may be corked

Yep, This.

[ticklenow1]

Had a night with some friends a couple of years back that was quite embarrassing. A beautiful meal was cooked and we had taken along a Rockford Black Shiraz and a '98 Cape Mentelle Cabernet. Both were so badly affected with TCA, they were totally undrinkable. I'd talked both the wines up as well. 2 out of 2 was just downright unlucky. To Cape Mentelle's credit, I emailed them the next day and they replaced it with the same vintage within a week. I've always loved Cape Mentelle's wines and this just reinforced it. Oh and by the way, the replacement was amazing!

I bought a 6 pack of Ingoldby 2002 Golden Vine Shiraz that the first 2 bottles were undrinkable (not sure of the fault but they were horrible), but Sparky happily replaced them for me after reading my note about them on here. I do fear if Moira ever moves on though...we are lucky to have her!

Cheers
Ian

[Mike Hawkins]

1962 Penfolds Bin 60A - TCA.

What a shame ..... Not the sort of bottle easily replaced. Its the one Aussie wine I've always wanted to taste. The thought of dropping 4 grand on a bottle that may not have been cellared well has scared me off.

[cuttlefish]

I'm just gonna hold on to this timber rail here. I've been lucky
Either that or I have shot senses...
A few corked bottles here and there, but nothing that's devastated me.

[n4sir]

multiple categories....
Cork issues at 8% (my average for last 4 years); mainly TCA

Count yourself as lucky.

So far this year out of 93 bottles under cork I've struck 18 that have been corked or premoxed.

Over the last five and a half years it's 269 faulty bottles out of 2195 under cork.

Low level TCA/cork fungus taint pisses me off the most - yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is... As has been mentioned, the very first impression is usually the right one, as you adjust to the taint/scalping remarkably quickly. If you're not sure, it's always a good move to go away for a while and come back to it, by that stage it's breathed enough to show it's true, devious colours and you can approach it with a neutral mind.

Cheers,
Ian

[Wizz]

Carefully aged bottles brought out for a special occasion that are corked - 72 McWilliams Sauternes

The ever so slightly TCA affected bottles. The ones where you doubt your own judgement of whether the wine is corked or not. Worst when it is expensive bottles.

When a bottle you take to a dinner is corked but others recognise it and you don't.

Detecting TCA in styles other than dry red/dry white. It can manifest in funny ways. Sometimes comes across as plastic/plasticine in sweeter wines, and I find it hard to spot at low leves in sparkling wines.

Poor use of sulphur under screwcap. Gives screwcaps a bad name, when the real issue is winemaking tailored for a cork seal being used for screwcapped wines.

Arguments about Brett. I'm not so sensitive to it, and at low levels in some food friendly red wines I don't mind it.

[Peter Schlesinger]

Many years ago, a friend and I bought a bottle of a Chateau Margaux, from Roseville Cellars as I recall, around which to build a dinner for the night of the turn of the millenium. We kept it for a number of years and, on the night, found it to be indescribly stuffed. And it had been well stored. Horrid, acrid and foul. No more Margaux for me. It went down the sink to hopefully kill some of Lake Burley Griffin's carp.

[TravisW]

A bad one happened the other night. We took a bottle of a relative's new wine (a 2010) out to dinner with a mate who is a wine maker. I poured and sniffed: A horse called Brett trotted into view... and he was a MASSIVE, stinky, wet horse. I haven't told my relatives the bad news.

Loads of top-end TCA affected wines at our tasting group in the UK, but somehow the pain is eased when shared.

The worst? Mercaptans. *Heave*

Cheers, Travis.

[Michael R]

!!

[sparky]

As far as our (TWE) philosophy goes, TCA is TCA is TCA, which is a fault. Doesn't matter where you bought it or when, we made the wine and put the offending cork in the top. Cellaring conditions are a different topic altogether.

AaronL is right on the money with how to proceed. Keep the evidence, make the call promptly and the service response is far more likely to be positive. Tip it down the sink and make the call seven years later and it's not. (Trust me. I've had that conversation) Basically it comes down to reciprocity - treat the producer and the wine with respect and they're going to do the same with you.

Retailers may want to refer you on to the producer, although the better ones won't as they know they'll get fixed up for any wines that get returned to them. It just depends how good their service ethic is.

We're also lucky enough to have lab facilities internally, so testing for TCA & Brett is pretty standard process, particularly for older premium wines and it's not so much of an issue if they've been open for a while - TCA doesn't blow off under the mass spectrometer.

Brett is a bit more of a grey area in terms of what's acceptable and what's not, but if in doubt with any wine, close it up and make the call. We'd much prefer to have the conversation and exploration of what might have gone wrong than have you suck it up (so to speak) and choose something else.

Moira

And the number in case you missed it is on EVERY bottle.

[phillisc]

Yes I am a lot like Cuttlefish, either my palate is shot, or I hope that the bastard comes round..the wine not me... but generally feel that I am pretty lucky.
Thanks for the replacement Moira on the 94 BL and yes the testing for TCA indicated high levels...one that the wife picked out so she is the mass spectrometer now...anyway there is a heap in the literature that a womans nose if far more snesitive than any man.

Ian , just did the sums and I know a lot of these would have been at big tastings and not bottles privately consumed in total..but mate you either need a medal, or you are a freak of nature...2195 over 60 months is 8 or so bottles every week...shit I would be either really happy or dead...probably not a lot of difference..but that is a fantasic effort.

No wonder your monikker is the ENFORCER
Cheers Craig.

[n4sir]

Ian , just did the sums and I know a lot of these would have been at big tastings and not bottles privately consumed in total..but mate you either need a medal, or you are a freak of nature...2195 over 60 months is 8 or so bottles every week...shit I would be either really happy or dead...probably not a lot of difference..but that is a fantasic effort.

No wonder your monikker is the ENFORCER
Cheers Craig.

That's just the wines sealed under cork...

Over the same period, you can add 2120 bottles under screwcap, and 138 bottles under other seals.

I think at one stage after I posted an annual closure count total at the other place, one forumite mentioned that on average it was over three a day for that year - I should mention I do spit out a lot of wine, especially at large tastings. It has tailed off the last two years because of my illness - there was a period of many months where I wasn't drinking anything at all.

A fair effort, but I'm pretty sure it's not really that much compared to many working in the business - I sat in on one of Andrew Jefford's tastings when he was here and we went through about sixty one afternoon.

Cheers,
Ian

[phillisc]

Hell forgot about all those whites and young reds under stelvin.

Even bigger effort then

[Panda 9D]

My worst experiences were two shipments in a row of totally cooked wines (hundreds of bottles). That caused a huge amount of stress. Lately, I'd second George on the 91 Centenary at the offline. I was excited to try that one!