Newbie question about Langtons.

[Astrobloke]

Hi all,

Firstly, how great it is to see the wonderful discussion about Australian wine going on here. Among my family and friends I am the only one who truly has a passion for wine and sometime I probably drive them crazy with talk of layer of flavour in whatever wine I happen to be drinking.

Over the last few years I've taken the odd wine appreciation course to supplement my understanding of wine. The problem with this is that inevitably you end up drinking more, and better quality wines, that naturally start costing much more.

Like many here I finally found my way to Langtons, both as a means of reducing the cost of the wine I drink, but also to get back vintages and more obscure wines also. Last week I made my first purchases and it all went well, but I saw potential risks in this approach as well, such as shipping. Say you bought a bunch of reasonably expensive wines that are older vintages and you had them shipped from Langtons to you home interstate, now imagine it's 40 degrees on the days you wine is being delivered. Obviously there is a reasonable chance your wine could be ruined due to heat damage.

My question to you is what are the major pitfalls of using Langtons or any other auction site ? Are there ways to reduce the risk ?

I look forward to your answers

[daz]

I've never bought from any auction house but the better etailers are very conscious of high temperatures having potentially adverse effects on wines in transit and unilaterally postpone shipment until milder weather. I should imagine that if you convey to Langtons any concerns you have about the weather at the time of purchase, dispatch of your purchase would be delayed, keeping in mind of course that it would be unreasonable of you to request that wines you purchased in summer be held by Langtons until winter which would naturally be your preferred time of shipment.

[cuttlefish]

I pick up my purchases from Langtons. Also, I think they can hold deliveries in warehouse during particularly hot weather.

[TiggerK]

Hi astrobloke,

Shipping is certainly worth being careful over and like cuttlefish, I pick mine up. But they will hold shipping (I think only on your request) if you're worried about heat etc.

But shipping is a minor risk compared to the risk to take buying auction wines in the first place. You simply have no idea how it's been stored since release, and of course the older it is, the more risk. This applies to any auction house, not just Langtons, although some are better than others at determining provenance, IME, Langton's generally don't ask the seller about the wine's history, they just take it, charge both seller and buyer a hefty commission and move on.

Remember that wines are often at auction for a reason.....

Bad run of corks? Send the rest to auction.
Premature oxidisation? (Older whites - Burgundy in particular) - Take out the best coloured bottles, rest off to auction.
Tried one or two and most or all scalped? - Back to auction.
Past it when you finally tasted it? - Send the rest to auction....
You get the idea.

Yet, there aren't many other ways of buying old wines, so auction is a necessary evil for most people wanting to try older wines. And there are plenty of great wines that don't fall into the above categories. I would say that my success rate with Langtons purchases (and I'm not a major buyer, maybe 100 bottles over the past 6 years) would be about 70%, with another 10% being drinkable but not quite right, and 20% of the wines corked or more often scalped (no real taste or smell likely due to heat exposure or non TCA cork issue). So you buy and take your chances, remember you cannot take them back for exchange or refund, although some wineries (Penfolds amongst others) will try to help you out but only if it's corked (TCA).

Aged wine in good condition can be life changing, so it's these occasional amazing experiences that keep me coming back for a few more! But I'm getting a lot more fussy these days, and have mostly given up getting $60+ wines not under screwcap. (Mostly )

Cheers
Tim

[odyssey]

I do the same as Tim and cuttlefish and always pick them up, but then if you're out of state you don't have much of an option.

Can I ask what state/region you are in? There are auction houses in other states (Wickmans, Sterling) if you are in Adelaide or Perth if that is any closer.

I'm sure you could ask/PM Mark Wickman (username markg on the forum) if you need more info about their shipping.

[Astrobloke]

On my original purchase a week ago I went and picked the wine up ( I'm in Melbourne ) and while there I spoke to one of the reps about freighting the wine. He said they simply use Australia Post. No climate controlled trucks, nothing. Just like any other parcel. So this means that the complete set of Grange I am buying in the Sydney auction for $X00,000 will be posted to me in Melbourne. Incredible !

I've been tempted to lash out and buy a 6 pack of 1998 Penfolds 389 in the Sydney auction but the advice you guys give me about heat damage is making me think again. For me that's a lot of $$ to risk it being heat damaged.

Also, while I was at Melbourne Langton's the rep I spoke to took me on a brief tour of the warehouse and introduced me to the guy who was checking each bottle that came in for defect. Obviously he can only check for certain things such as forgeries or clear defects but at least there was some visual checks. They did mention that they knock back a whole lot of wine that is presented to them.

Finally, thank you for the informative replies. I'm still trying to get my head around this auction bizzo and appreciate learning from your experience.

[TiggerK]

If you're buying the compete set of Grange, you'll probably be able to send your private jet and personal wine courier to get them....

I hate to say it, but if you had bought the 6 pack of 98 389's (a wine that with it's 707 friend helped get me into this whole obsession!), and if the first one or two had been scalped or corked, you could have sent the other 4 back to auction and they would still look normal and no-one would be any the wiser!!

Too many Aussie wines from the mid/late 90's have a higher than normal rate of bad corks, especially for our friends at Penfolds I'm sorry to say. (and of course only in my opinion!).

Langtons do check the wines when they come into the warehouse, but can only note the fill level and any obvious signs of cork leakage. I wonder why they say they reject so many wines? I assume leaking corks, really poor fill levels for age and of course the counterfeits that our overseas friends are bringing into the country more and more (check for spelling mistakes on the back label!).

Cheers
Tim

[markg]

I do the same as Tim and cuttlefish and always pick them up, but then if you're out of state you don't have much of an option.
Can I ask what state/region you are in? There are auction houses in other states (Wickmans, Sterling) if you are in Adelaide or Perth if that is any closer.
I'm sure you could ask/PM Mark Wickman (username markg on the forum) if you need more info about their shipping.

Hey chaps.

Actually, as far as I am aware, most auction houses in Australia as well as specialist wine retailers have a heat policy and are careful not to ship wine during extended periods of hot weather, which is pretty easy to plan for ( www.bom.gov.au ).

Australia Post has a specialist wine shipping section that handles the majority of the wine from Auction houses and retailers. The wine is transported separate from the standard parcel post and usually handled more carefully by shipping interstate at night, using protected, air conditioned [not temperature controlled though] delivery centres (at least thats what Australia Post claim ).

Also, addressing the issue of buying older wine at auction; most of the wine we see is not always a risky purchase from its storage and handling history. Iam not saying that the buyer should not beware but the majority are from the 3D's (death, divorce and debt), not to mention doctors who's wives decide they have been spending too much income on wine and need to buy their children new Ferrari's for their 16th birthdays (true story). Also restaurants, hotels and resorts often like to turn over their stock and ship their excess off to auction.

[TiggerK]

Heat Policy

During periods of heat we will only hold your shipments on your authorisation.

While every effort will be made to ensure prompt delivery without compromising the condition of the wine, please be advised that Langton’s insurance does not cover heat damage.

[Kiwi Matt]

Having bought wine from Langtons for years I can verify they will not ship when there is any sort of heat event forecast and they take the time to look at the destination state, not just local. My experience of poorly stored, corked or expired wines has if anything, been better than other sources.
I'm not a shareholder and buy at least a case of back vintages a month.

Matt

[Astrobloke]

Ok, I decided to jump in and purchase the 389's. I'd earlier rang Langton's in Sydney to ask about the wine and it all came from a professional wine buyer/seller who mostly imports French wine, but occasionally sits on some quality Australian wine also. Apparently he deals in large quantities ( by the pallet mostly ) and has them stored in a very good cellar. This gave me the confidence to buy.

On the shipping, I emailed Langton's and told them to hold my order until further notice, obviously I'll keep an eye on the Syd-Melb weather. The guy on the phone indicated that it would be fine to keep it even for a couple of months. Due to this hassle I'll probably stick to the Melbourne auctions from now on.

Mark, it sounds like you have a much better heat policy then Langton's do. Does someone inspect the wine that comes to your warehouse also ?

[markg]

Mark, it sounds like you have a much better heat policy then Langton's do. Does someone inspect the wine that comes to your warehouse also ?

Yes, me

I also question each vendor about the wines history and will guarantee the provenance on wine that I can prove have a solid purchasing and cellaring history.

This year I am starting to video inspect certain lots, cellars and vendors. I will then be posting them to my youtube channel so people can see the inspection process and also see first hand how some of the bottles have been stored.

[Astrobloke]

It's reassuring to know that there are some checks in place at your biz Mark. I've tried to check out your site but when I look for auction there are none. Is this correct or is my browser playing up on me ?

[Cloth Ears]

I'll second what Mark said - having bought from him. Nice guy. I'm hanging out for the January auction also - Mrs Cloth Ears birthday on Feb 15 (and I'm thinking about something nice to have before dinner.

To those who sniggered - get your minds out of the gutter

[markg]

It's reassuring to know that there are some checks in place at your biz Mark. I've tried to check out your site but when I look for auction there are none. Is this correct or is my browser playing up on me ?

I was planning to launch the 1st auction of the year this week but have been flat out with last minute submissions over the weekend. I am now preparing the catalog, but it will be delayed by about a week at this point .. Remind me after the auction closes clothy and I will prioritise any of your wine so you get it in time.