Barossa Valley unsuitable for shiraz?

[jeremy]

Selections from Andrew Jefford article in July Decanter-

http://grapeobserver.blogspot.com/2010/ ... hiraz.html

I have not read the full piece.

Thoughts anyone?

[Rawshack]

I read your comments at the bottom Jeremy, most unsavoury for this time on a Tuesday morning

[rooman]

At the risk of being exiled to upper Yorkshire for heresay, I have some sympathy for Andrew's view on Barossa shiraz. A quick check on cellartracker shows Barossa shiraz makes up not more than 1.5% of my total cellar. And the little I do have is not replaced as it gets drunk. The simple fact is I find the stuff boring to drink. If I could, I would drop the few remaining bottles and replace it all with St Peters and Clonakilla in the beat of a gnat's wings.

[jeremy]

Fair enough. But what people cellar doesn't necesarily provide any support for the extremes of AJ's thoughts. Firstly, the Barossa has endured some very tough vintages of late and even then we have some fantastic Shiraz from Teusner, Karra Yerta, Kalleske etc. Then there is the movement away from fulld bodied interpretations of shiraz in the region. Sami Odi & Arete spring to mind. Spinifex are still making excellent SV. Fraser McKinlay has turned out excellent shiraz from 07 & 08 that will age well with only natural acidity. Just wait for 2010.

Really, the list goes on & on.

I prefer cool climate shiraz most of the time but I'm not silly enough to suggest that the variety is passed its used by date in the Barossa. Especially not on the back of a relatively short visit to Australia.

[Red Bigot]

He must drink different Barossa Shiraz to those I do (and buy). There is certainly a lot of ordinary wine produced in any region (world wide), you just have to find the ones that suit your palate. And for some that is a soft, ripe, low tannin wine.
Not all wine has to have "terroir" or conform to any particular style defined by critics as being desirable for a region or be able to cellar for 20+years. Most people (myself included) can't afford to buy/drink the elite exemplars of terroir and style and I gave up being bothered about that about 30 years ago.
For me, I have no problem finding Shiraz with decent balance and tannin structure from Barossa and McLaren Vale. I know many of them will have acid added at the crusher, in many/most of the wines I'm looking at to buy it is not obvious, at least to me. I'm more sensitive to prominent acid in young cabernets from cooler climates.
The "market" is what decides the issue, if producers make wines that don't sell at a profit then they go out of business. That is certainly happening and will happen, but there are plenty of producers in both those areas that in many vintages have no problem selling all they can make.

Was it Len Evans who said "It's just a bloody drink!" ?

[rooman]

Brian

I appreciate it is a gross generalisation to totally write off Barossa reds when we have such great reds as Henscheke Mt Edelstone and St Hallet Old Block but boy there are lot that just lack any depth or complexity. I took half a dozen to a dinner recently include Charles Milton 02, Magill 01 and Knappstein Enterprise 99. At the end of the meal I realised I hadn't enjoyed a single red I had brought along. Perhaps I am still drinking them too young.

Mark

[Red Bigot]

Brian

I appreciate it is a gross generalisation to totally write off Barossa reds when we have such great reds as Henscheke Mt Edelstone and St Hallet Old Block but boy there are lot that just lack any depth or complexity. I took half a dozen to a dinner recently include Charles Milton 02, Magill 01 and Knappstein Enterprise 99. At the end of the meal I realised I hadn't enjoyed a single red I had brought along. Perhaps I am still drinking them too young.

Mark

No probs, different grapes, different wines impress different people. The Melton 2002 Shiraz is still in my cellar and I've enjoyed them so far, but not tried one recently. I haven't bought Knappstein Enterprise since the 98 vintage (Clare, is shiraz a dud there too according to AJ?).
Maybe I have simple tastes. Often I just want a good balanced red with good fruit and structure, but not huge tannin or oak, to go with spicy food and there are a huge number of Aus Shiraz that fit that bill.
Most of the really complex wines I've tried from anywhere in the world are more expensive than I want to pay, although there are some exceptions. I've bought many wines (not just shiraz) from cooler climates that are lower than 14.0-14.5% a/v and supposedly complex and interesting according to well-respected reviewers and often I "just don't get it".
Shiraz (from many regions of Australia, with some from NZ and France) make up over 50% of my cellar and that will probably increase as my partner is becoming increasingly anti-Cabernet, at least those under about 10 years old. The proportion of GSM type blends, mataros and Italian/Spanish varietals will probably go up a bit too as the quality of these seems to be on the rise. Pinot just doesn't suit most of the food we eat, thankfully, as I seldom enjoy the cheaper ones and can't afford the ones I do enjoy.
We are off to Thailand on Friday for a couple of weeks with another couple and our (4 people) checked-luggage will contain a total of 12 bottles of mostly shiraz, with a couple of blends and maybe a durif. Looking forward to drinking them with real Thai food.
Now what would be boring is if we all had the same tastes in wine...

[PaulG]

Sounds like a very interesting article, does anyone know where one might find a copy of decanter (or the article)?

[n4sir]

I'll reserve my judgment for when I get to read the guts of Andrew's book/views when it all comes out - a single bite when placed in the proper context can have a completely different take. I think in the relatively short time he's been here, he should have tried enough to know that the best shiraz from these regions do have exceptional balance and demonstrate terroir, and some even have the natural acidity with no additions he craves - I certainly hope that some future pieces reflect this, and will be frankly disappointed if they don't.

That said, key figures in the industry bought him out here because it's in crisis, and things don’t look like getting better in a hurry - at the very least it's at the crossroads, at the worst it's on its knees waiting for the axe to fall or China to buy up everything. The grape/wine glut has been an ongoing problem since the start of the millennium, and the US & UK export market collapse (fuelled by a combination of the global financial crisis, a strong Australian dollar and what seems to be a sense of apathy with our wines) has come at the worse possible time. The problems are complex, and the last thing it needs is someone coming out here on a paid holiday to “blow smoke up our arse”, leaving us to think everything with sort itself out. “She’ll be right mate” simply won’t cut it anymore - like it or not (and apparently a few don’t) we need a genuine outsider or two’s insight to provide some genuine constructive criticism, or else many of our wines will continue to be regarded as bargain bin material overseas. At the very least, it will give us a view from those that have a serious problem with the bulk of Australian wines, and if collectively we had any brains we would then use this information to form some sort of measured response (be it what we make, or how we promote it).

Looking at the big picture (and back to the bite from the article) the truth is there really is too much shiraz planted in the Barossa and McLaren Vale (and many other places too). To be more specific, I'm talking about plantings in the last 10 years or so driven by parties trying to cash in on the short-lived US obsession with big Aussie shiraz (coincidentally about the same time as the grape glut first began rearing its ugly head), leading to many new plantings (usually irrigated, in places that for some reason or another hasn't deemed to be suitable in the last 100 or so years). It's a big reason why there are vines being ripped up in the Riverland right now, not to mention the unpicked/unpruned McLaren Vale vineyards Philip White mentions in the article below – give it another year or so, and these scenes will be repeated in Langhorne Creek, Clare and the Barossa:

http://drinkster.blogspot.com/2010/06/2 ... ction.html

One of the things I noticed when Andrew Jefford was here was his continuous referrals to fine wine – my personal take on this is why we (as a nation) seem to be failing at very the top end. At the moment on some of these forums I’m reading the bitching and moaning of people seemingly fed up with what seems to be predatory antics of the Bordelaise during the 2009 en primeur campaign, which in reality isn’t that different fro the 2005/2000 vintages. The question has to be asked though, with a couple of exceptions why doesn’t it happen with Australian wines? Our finest wines are made at a much lower production (even Grange would be a mere fraction of any of the first growths) yet we are seemingly reliant on being “flavour of the month”, the high points scores of a notable US reviewer or two, or a ridiculously low currency rate to succeed.

As I said earlier in this response the problems are complex, and we can look at a combination of things including a glut of resources driven by short-term goals and tax minimisation schemes, inappropriate marketing including at times the ridiculous discounting of our top wines overseas, what seems to be a dwindling of resources/lack of effort in effectively promoting our wines overseas, and the complete dominance and predatory actions of major corporates at both the manufacture and retail level (the phrase "wine will eat itself" seems so appropriate in this context). The gross profiteering by certain US wine importers in the past based on high point scores of the aforementioned US reviewers hasn’t exactly helped our image either, not to metion the complicit manufacture of wines tailored to these palates for a quick buck (especially when purchasers are now finding these particular wines are not to their taste and have ditched “Brand Australia” as a result).

If the industry wants to succeed in a sustainable way and not lazily rely on quick fixes like a couple of reviewers’ point scores or a low dollar, it needs to change or at the very least, needs to find a new way of marketing the wines overseas – if it doesn’t, the consequences are dire. That might mean changing the wines we send to suit their palates, or with newer markets like Asia or Eastern Europe making a serious promotion effort to make an impact (which the Bordelaise have successfully done to inflate their en primeur campaigns, even in the midst of the GFC). Unfortunately, the picture painted by Philip White’s article on this recent effort to promote our wines to Russia is about as cheap and dodgy as many of our wines are perceived by their harshest critics:

http://drinkster.blogspot.com/2010/06/a ... fudge.html

My 2c,
Ian

[JDSJDS]

Good points, n4sir. I agree that major change is needed, and the infusion of external opinions is an important component in thinking about the future of the Australian wine industry.

I agree with all your points, except this paragraph:

One of the things I noticed when Andrew Jefford was here was his continuous referrals to fine wine – my personal take on this is why we (as a nation) seem to be failing at very the top end. At the moment on some of these forums I’m reading the bitching and moaning of people seemingly fed up with what seems to be predatory antics of the Bordelaise during the 2009 en primeur campaign, which in reality isn’t that different fro the 2005/2000 vintages. The question has to be asked though, with a couple of exceptions why doesn’t it happen with Australian wines? Our finest wines are made at a much lower production (even Grange would be a mere fraction of any of the first growths) yet we are seemingly reliant on being “flavour of the month”, the high points scores of a notable US reviewer or two, or a ridiculously low currency rate to succeed.

I'm not sure that all that the industry needs is a new marketing strategy, raising prices and/or making the elite wines a fashion/status symbol a la Bordeaux. And I'd add that Bordeaux iself is reliant on being 'flavour of the month' via the high scores of Parker. Without Parkers influence, the Bordelais couldn't have asked for the prices they have over the last 10-15 years. Bordeaux has become a fixture for specualtion and status seekers (at least the first growths). Is this really what you want for Australia's top wines? Is this a sustainable model for the wine industry? Wine is 'flavour of the month' now for the very wealthy, but tastes change, and what will happen when wine is tossed aside for yet another status symbol? And the inability of the 'normal' people to taste these wines as part of a wine education is a sad trend as well. I could afford to buy some reasonably nice Bordeaux (but not first growths) from the 1988-1990 vintages: I can't afford these wines from about the mid 1990s. The same goes for California (Napa) wines. I remember going to Caymus in the mid 1990s, and Chuck Wagner decided he would be the first in Napa to ask for over $100 for his top wine: he basically said, why not - the Bordelais are charging that!

While marketing will be important to change the current perception of Australian wine among many wine drinkers in North America, Europe and Asia, by itself, it is useless at best, and very harmful at worst (as the second link suggested). The actual style of wine has to change, and perhaps the whole corporate structure of the wine industry has to change as well (my god, how the corporatization of the wine industry in Ausyralia has set back the industry in the last 5-7 years!). The recent efforts of other marketing programs (e.g., the group of familty run wineries marketing their own wines around the world) is a good start, but the major cacophony is still created by the huge corporate interests. People just aren't all that interested in the 'typical' Australian wine anymore: the cheap wine buyers - the vast majoprity of the system - have moved on to other regions like Argentina, and fine wine buyers have been turned off by the higher prices, high alcohol and lack of aging possibilities from the wines that are sold here (i.e., the Barossa and McLaren Vale ooze monsters that Parker/Miller scored so highly). But this is still the style that is churned out and makes it to the shores of North America.

The other issue relates to your point about 'fine wine' in the quote above. The other major barrier to making better wines in Australia might be the high prices of Old World wines. That is, when most Australians can not afford to drink fine wines from anywhere but Australia, the whole palate of the country is skewed. I'm not saying their palates are 'worse' than other nations, but this relative inability of the public (and many winemakers?) to frequently taste Old World wines may also be a key impediment to changing Australian wine styles? Perhaps this is becoming less important, but I still think it is a key - and almost hidden or invisible - barrier.

[rednut]

Geez taking things a bit too serious isnt he? My larder is full of delicious Barossa Shiraz's and will continue to be fillled with them. I love them, always have and will continue to. Rockfords (my favourite), Kalleske, Kaeslers (close second), Greenock Creek, Grant Burge what more can you say and they continue to shine.
Each their own I suppose but I personally always buy Barossa Shiraz and will continue to and enjoy whilst I am able to.
Cheers
Ian

[Peter Schlesinger]

Just returned from 5 weeks overseas, mostly in Scotland, to find this interesting post and the country with a new PM. Can't leave you guys alone for a minute. Asserting that the Barossa is unsuitable for shiraz makes for a good banner headline and seems to have succeeded in stirring up intelligent debate. I tend to buy to my palate profile (and budget), take advice from writers and critics whose views make sense to me and don't get too excited about other people's pronouncements. Barossa shiraz is well represented in my cellar and will contine to be as long as people like Kym Teusner, Shawn Kalleske etc keep making good reds. That said, I am also moving increasingly to lighter savoury styles from varietals such as tempranillo (and don't Mayford make a beauty) from Australia and Spain but understand the view that some Barossa reds are overly dominated by alcohol and tannins.

As an aside, I never expected to find a supply of good wines, let alone Australian, in my 4 weeks of travel around the outer Hebridies, north eastern Scotland and Edinburgh and consequently was not disappointed. However, I did find two jewels in unexpected places. The first was a coffee/gift shop called the Menzies near Abelour that had a remarkable range of excellent new world wines. Australian wines were strongly represented and included John Duval, Petaluma, Grosset and a wide selection of others. Apparently the place was founded by an Australian who couldn't get a decent glass of red so she set up her own business. The coffee was good too.

The other was a place called the Longship in Kirkwall. Our visit coincided with the 4th Annual Orkney Fine Wine Festival at which one of the presentations was a wine/food matching of Plantagenet wines. Picked up a brilliant Spanish grenache there and now can't remember what it was because I seem to have mislaid the label.

Also found a wine shop in Edinburgh selling 1999 Grange for 150 pounds (they wanted 200 pounds for the 2000 vintage) and a bottle of Penfolds Bin 8 cabernet shiraz at Dubai airport for just under $US17. I assume the latter is an overseas marketed Bin 389 with the 3 and 8 deleted for people with short attention spans. Sparky might be able to confirm/deny this.

Cheers, Peter

[Bick]

and a bottle of Penfolds Bin 8 cabernet shiraz at Dubai airport for just under $US17. I assume the latter is an overseas marketed Bin 389 with the 3 and 8 deleted for people with short attention spans.

'Fraid not Peter - its a cheaper cab/shiraz blend and distinct from 389.

[Peter Schlesinger]

Thanks for clearing that up Mike.

Cheers, Peter

[n4sir]

I sent AJ a link to this thread, and here's what he said in his last email to me:

Hi Ian

I thought the debate on the AusWine forum was pretty fair actually, with some very good contributions (yours and others). I totally agree with the contributor who said that not all wine is meant to be terroir wine/fine wine, and my remarks only really apply to those who want to make (or claim to make) terroir wines/fine wine. The commercial wines work well enough, as sales of sensibly priced examples prove. I also agree with all of those who pointed out that there is an avant-garde in Barossa looking for ways forward to make more naturally balanced wines from existing plantings (Shiraz included). Teusner, Kalleske, Standish, Pete at Spinifex, Tom Shobbrook, Dave Powell, Rick Burge &c. &c. ...all these guys are searching for that elusive naturalness which is the gateway to terroir, and will get there in the end. I would also say, and I will say in the book, that the base quality of a lot of Barossa Shiraz is sensationally good. You only have to travel the region at harvest to know that -- you can smell it in the vats and taste it in the must samples. It is emphatically a great regional/varietal partnership. But what kind of wine does it want to be made into? That is the key question, and my remarks are really just aimed at getting people to think about that. My own view is that there just has to be a better way than the formula which dictates "Begin by adding 4 g/l of acid ..." because as you do that, you efface terroir at a stroke. In an analogy I've used before and will use again, it's like harvesting a Chateauneuf and immediately attempting to give it the acid balance of a Chinon or a Beaujolais. It's vandalism! And I'm keen to see more plantings of other varieties, because those that do exist suggest that

a) it's easier to produce natural wines with those other varieties (eg. Penfolds Cellar Reserve Sangiovese from Paul Georgiadis's vineyard), and

b) their quality confirms that Barossa is a great terroir. It's a question of trying to find the right instrument for its music.

My remarks are emphatically not anti-Barossa!

Feel free to broadcast this if you want.

Cheers

Andrew

Also, in the same vein as what I mentioned earlier in this thread, I heard a couple of other bites during the week which are a pretty good indication just how bad a state the SA wine industry is in:

A client who lives in Clare said a significant number of small grapegrowers there already can't get a contract (with Constellation basically pulling up stumps and smaller wineries in trouble, specifically because of the collapse in the US market which was the main source of their income). Many of their vines are unpruned, and somewhere in the view behind O'Leary Walker's new cellar door an old riesling vineyard in Watervale that had in previous years supplied grapes to many top labels has been just ripped out by the bulldozers. For top riesling some growers are being offered only $300-400/tonne.

Clare is usually one of the last places in the chain these things happen (following the Riverland, Langhorne Creek, McLaren Vale & Barossa Valley) - it's not a good sign to say the least.

Cheers,
Ian

[Chuck]

Not much Barossa shiraz in our cellar and haven't bought it for a long time. In fact not much shiraz at all but that's just a personal preference. Just find Barossa stuff a little one dimensional, simple, sweet and underwhelming. Again a personal preference and clearly I'm in a minority. Give me a Bordeaux style any day. Good blender though with the sweet flavours adding another layer of flavour.

Chuck

[Bigwun]

"These wines appeal initially, but quickly pall with experience (and food)"

Taste is subjective. After drinking barossa shiraz for more than 20 years, I completely disagree with that statement to the point that, apart from MacLaren Vale, nowhere produces a red wine I personally enjoy more.

Should we follow Fostors lead in making a product that the overseas market buys but isn't consumed locally?

BTW, getting upset over adding acid is pretty silly. Should we demand only wild yeasts, no fining agents, and no oak as well? Why on earth would you ask a wine critic to tell you why your wine isn't selling? Ask the consumers! I'm a consumer and I can tell you I've never agreed with anything JH has rated, which is not to say he's wrong, it's just his taste and mine are clearly different.

Are shiraz wine sales down across the board in the US, or only Barossa ones? I expect all aussie wine sales are down and I bet cheaper south american wines have a lot to do with that. After all they are still in the middle of the GFC and hurting bad (I have friends who are suffering a lot there still). If that is the case, then changing the style of the wine is irrelevent.

PS. it was pretty hard not to be rude in response, that quote is really abusing the consumers who enjoy those wines