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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:58 pm
by Anthony Basilone
Dr - 307 wrote:Melbourne is correct.
Bad experience, absolutely. Just made me more determined to steer those who want to listen towards the better retailer(s). I thought I was finshied with Sesame St and it's puppets long ago. Ernie was the funnier one anyway.
The fact that you need to make fun of/with someone's Christian name suggests that you're not done with Sesame Street just yet.
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:05 am
by Dr - 307
Policy or no policy. You go in to pick up yourself....no surcharge. Fair is fair. At my place of employment we have a $150 minimum. Someone wants to come in and pick up an item of $10 worth, they are more than welcome. No surcharge because I haven't packed and processed the order. That's fair. And, they get a smile and a 'Have a nice day'. That's service.
Anthony and Dave, a grouch I am not, just straight up, honest, honourable and helpful. Maybe that's old school to some but it's better than being arrogant, small minded and dismissive.
FWIW, I concede that the quip about Sesame St is childish. After all, no need to fall to other peoples levels.
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:16 am
by TORB
Dr - 307 wrote:Anthony and Dave, a grouch I am not, just straight up, honest, honourable and helpful.
As what's wrong with being a grouch as well as those other attributes you mention?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:57 am
by DaveB
Dr - 307 wrote:Policy or no policy. You go in to pick up yourself....no surcharge. Fair is fair. At my place of employment we have a $150 minimum. Someone wants to come in and pick up an item of $10 worth, they are more than welcome. No surcharge because I haven't packed and processed the order. That's fair. And, they get a smile and a 'Have a nice day'. That's service. Now, some guy doesn't care about the little guy/small collector that's fine but don't be arrogant and hide behind policy. What I love about wine foremost is it's ability to bring strangers together and have good conversations about wine, obviously, but also other things as well, to strike new friendships and meet people from different walks of life. To have some puppet tell me that "maybe our policy is not for you" just doesn't wash. His loss not mine. I reward an excellent retailer who looks after me and doesn't just shove points under my nose. And the puppet hasn't just loss my $300 a month (which may be insignificant to some) but he's also lost the countless recommendations and no doubt the recommendations from those recommendations and so on.
Anthony and Dave, a grouch I am not, just straight up, honest, honourable and helpful. Maybe that's old school to some but it's better than being arrogant, small minded and dismissive.
FWIW, I concede that the quip about Sesame St is childish. After all, no need to fall to other peoples levels.
I don't think it's unreasonable to charge a surcharge for pickups if you are already getting a good price + free freight ....I may be missing something here but why not just get the wines delivered for no charge? I have to pay a noise tax everytime I fly out of Kingsford Smith Airport but I don't make any bloody noise on the plane....why isn't Qantas paying that?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:23 pm
by Dr - 307
Dave,
True, he can do whatever he wants just like I can take my buisness wherever I want. Delivery is not free full stop. Delivery is free on dozen lots only. And his prices are not cheaper than others. A good wine merchant will match any reasonable price you put to them. I can't afford to buy dozen lots of the wines I want to collect hence the remark about the little guy. Maybe you can and sincerely, good luck to you. It wasn't his policy that pissed me off, more his dismissive arrogance. I was brought up to give the time of day to everyone. That's just plain manners.
FWIW, my wine merchant also has free delivery over a certain value but when I go in and pick up I pay for the bottle and that's it.
Comparing noise taxes and multi nationals like Qantas to a wine retailer, c'mon mate. We are talking about a store selling wine.
TORB,
Cheers, old school is how I was brought up, that's how I raise my family and that's how I like to be.
Dr - 307.
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:00 pm
by DaveB
Dr - 307 wrote:Comparing noise taxes and multi nationals like Qantas to a wine retailer, c'mon mate. We are talking about a store selling wine.
Dr - 307.
We are talking about a policy that is spelt out clear for everyone to read and people who think that a policy should not apply to them.... thats all.
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:04 pm
by Davo
I have never, and I repeat, never had a problem with Ernie's mate.
Do I buy all my wine there? No
Does he always have the best prices? No
If I find the wines I want elsewhere at a significantly cheaper price, including freight to me, then I buy there. I have always found them helpful and honest and upfront when asked questions, but then I have never tried to get them to alter their store policy just for me.
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:04 pm
by Anthony Basilone
Dr - 307 wrote:Policy or no policy. You go in to pick up yourself....no surcharge. Fair is fair. At my place of employment we have a $150 minimum. Someone wants to come in and pick up an item of $10 worth, they are more than welcome. No surcharge because I haven't packed and processed the order. That's fair. And, they get a smile and a 'Have a nice day'. That's service. Now, some guy doesn't care about the little guy/small collector that's fine but don't be arrogant and hide behind policy. What I love about wine foremost is it's ability to bring strangers together and have good conversations about wine, obviously, but also other things as well, to strike new friendships and meet people from different walks of life. To have some puppet tell me that "maybe our policy is not for you" just doesn't wash. His loss not mine. I reward an excellent retailer who looks after me and doesn't just shove points under my nose. And the puppet hasn't just loss my $300 a month (which may be insignificant to some) but he's also lost the countless recommendations and no doubt the recommendations from those recommendations and so on.
Anthony and Dave, a grouch I am not, just straight up, honest, honourable and helpful. Maybe that's old school to some but it's better than being arrogant, small minded and dismissive.
FWIW, I concede that the quip about Sesame St is childish. After all, no need to fall to other peoples levels.
And yet you couldn't help yourself in this post and still call him a puppet in this post. Honest, honourable and helpful? yeah right!
Judging by the way you carry on it appears that it's your loss not his.
And FWIW, I have reccommended at least 20 ( but probably closer to 30-40) friends and associates to Bert, because he is without doubt ( and I've said it before) the best retalier I've ever dealt with. I think you ought to get over your own importance. The only Arrogance and petty mindedness I can see herein are your own posts. Get over yourself.
PS: you talk about collecting the wines- from where? last time I looked Winestar was an internet based business?
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:17 am
by aj_syrah
Whilst this is my first post on this topic, and i have no particular alliegance to any wine retailer, I've read every post and feel the indignation to comment.
I've always been surprised that wine e-tailers offer the same price instore as online. Obviously, online they are competing with every other online seller, whereas instore they are only competing with those in their local community, and have high in-store overheads. I would have expected higher instore prices, but that is not the case. It seems to me that discount online e-tailers are partially subsidising their instore purchases with online sales. Any online discount merchant is offering a good deal vis-a-vis non-online reatailers. The only non-online retailer that can match online prices is Dan's, and they are massive and don't offer such a high level of personal service. It's amazing that so many independants can match Dan's prices.
Whilst I've never bought from the retailer that Dr - 307 is alluding to, I understand that he is well respected in the wine community, and has been a strong participant in many wine fora that i've read, including this one. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if he has already read this topic. Serious wine sellers should not be subjected to childish taunts. There are opportunistic e-tailers (e.g. the one in eltham, i forget it's name, chancellor of the exchequer or something), but the e-tailer you mention is not one of those.
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:30 am
by TORB
Doc,
You ain't gonna win this one. You may not like his policy, and he may not be the cheapest around, but he is very successful and highly respected. Hence many of his satisfied customers will keep popping up with alternate points of view to yours.
You are new around these parts and obviously have a lot to contribute, but this thread won't win you any new friends. Why not agree to disagree and move on?
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:57 am
by Dr - 307
I have obviously struck a cord in many and have come across like those I hate. Wine is full of opinions and of course not everyone will get along. There is no room for childish behaviour. I got onto this forum so I can discuss my love for wine. This I will do. In my personal life I will never accept arrogance or dismissive behaviour but these experiences I will keep private. People should make up their own minds in regards to other people. The impression I have left on you all is not the impression I want you to have of me when reading my future posts. I didn't mean to offend or upset. Wine is about good times with good friends. To those I have offended, please, accept my apology.
Don't take this as a backward step but rather sincerity.
As a peace offering I am starting a new topic on the Old Adam histeria!!!!!
Regards,
Dr - 307.
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:01 am
by Dr - 307
I have obviously struck a cord in many and have come across like those I hate. Wine is full of opinions and of course not everyone will get along. There is no room for childish behaviour. I got onto this forum so I can discuss my love for wine. This I will do. In my personal life I will never accept arrogance or dismissive behaviour but these experiences I will keep private. People should make up their own minds in regards to other people. The impression I have left on you all is not the impression I want you to have of me when reading my future posts. I didn't mean to offend or upset. Wine is about good times with good friends. To those I have offended, please, accept my apology.
Don't take this as a backward step but rather sincerity.
As a peace offering I am starting a new topic on the Old Adam histeria!!!!!
Regards,
Dr - 307.
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:43 am
by Red Bigot
Anthony Basilone wrote:PS: you talk about collecting the wines- from where? last time I looked Winestar was an internet based business?
I believe the original Strathmore Cellars shopfront is still part of the business. Most of the good independent e-tailers in Melbourne have a bricks-and-mortar shopfront as well.
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:19 am
by Dr - 307
That's all I was trying to do. Pick up a bottle from Strathmore Cellars and I still had to cop the surcharge. Anyway, sorry I stired the pot, guys. I'll move on.
Regretably,
Dr - 307.
(pot stirer).
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:28 am
by Craig(NZ)
Anyway, sorry I stired the pot, guys. I'll move on
I can guarantee that everyone on this forum has been laid in to at some stage by someone with a palate inferior (they have to be inferior to have a differing opinion after all
). The ones with many posts next to their names just have thicker skins than the ones that run away
stay around, we arent that bad most of the time
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:41 am
by Wizz
Yes, please, stay around. You clearly have a lot mroe to offer. And Craig is right, we aren't all that bad most of the time. Except Craig, who is worse than that all of the time.
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:57 am
by TORB
Wizz wrote:...And Craig is right, we aren't all that bad most of the time. Except Craig, who is worse than that all of the time.
Andrew, you are the master of the understatement!
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:47 am
by Dr - 307
Guys,
Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere. Thanks for making me feel welcome. I think the world has become a little precious. I think I'll stick with the thicker skinned ones. That's where all the action is.
Dr - 307.
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:07 pm
by Craig(NZ)
Andrew, you are the master of the understatement!
keeps you all on your toes Ric. You know you actually love it!! And this time of the year the anticipation of my new vintage sauvignon blanc reviews must be making you shake and shiver with excitement.
Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere.
phew, i thought you would be leaving before i had a chance to stab an opinion through you heart
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:15 pm
by Gavin Trott
Hello
Upon reading this thread with its comments about retailers, I was a little disappointed.
I pm'd Dr 307 to discuss the policy for the forum and retailers. I do not want them publically discussed in a negative way of the forum, I do not believe this is the right forum for this purpose.
To his credit, he immediately understood, has apologised and moved on.
Credit to him.
I'd now like to remove the parts of the posts here that identify the retailers.
Just wanted to make this part public so if a change or two is made, people will understand.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:03 am
by aj_syrah
Dr - 307 wrote: The impression I have left on you all is not the impression I want you to have of me when reading my future posts. I didn't mean to offend or upset. Wine is about good times with good friends.
Well said, I can't agree with you more. Welcome to the forum.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:28 am
by Murray
Red Bigot wrote:Anthony Basilone wrote:PS: you talk about collecting the wines- from where? last time I looked Winestar was an internet based business?
I believe the original Strathmore Cellars shopfront is still part of the business. Most of the good independent e-tailers in Melbourne have a bricks-and-mortar shopfront as well.
On that basis I could order online from Harris Technologies and then go into Officeworks and request pickup from there. Those two companies share sourcing, back office staffing and infrastructure so it works the same?
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:40 am
by Red Bigot
Murray wrote:Red Bigot wrote:Anthony Basilone wrote:PS: you talk about collecting the wines- from where? last time I looked Winestar was an internet based business?
I believe the original Strathmore Cellars shopfront is still part of the business. Most of the good independent e-tailers in Melbourne have a bricks-and-mortar shopfront as well.
On that basis I could order online from Harris Technologies and then go into Officeworks and request pickup from there. Those two companies share sourcing, back office staffing and infrastructure so it works the same?
Murray, I was only offering information in response to a question, not commenting on the fee charged. But since you ask, I would think it more like ordering online at Harris Technology and picking it up with free delivery at the local branch of HT, I've certainly done that before. Or ordering at Vintage Cellars Online and picking up for free at the local VC store, I've done that a couple of times as well, although their policy seems to change at a whim.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:40 am
by Dr - 307
Finally......THANK YOU!!!
Dr - 307.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:03 am
by Murray
Red Bigot wrote:Murray wrote:Red Bigot wrote:Anthony Basilone wrote:PS: you talk about collecting the wines- from where? last time I looked Winestar was an internet based business?
I believe the original Strathmore Cellars shopfront is still part of the business. Most of the good independent e-tailers in Melbourne have a bricks-and-mortar shopfront as well.
On that basis I could order online from Harris Technologies and then go into Officeworks and request pickup from there. Those two companies share sourcing, back office staffing and infrastructure so it works the same?
Murray, I was only offering information in response to a question, not commenting on the fee charged. But since you ask, I would think it more like ordering online at Harris Technology and picking it up with free delivery at the local branch of HT, I've certainly done that before. Or ordering at Vintage Cellars Online and picking up for free at the local VC store, I've done that a couple of times as well, although their policy seems to change at a whim.
Brian,
In both the cases you cite the branding is the same on both online and shopfront entities. This is not the case here.
As such my HT/Officeworks analogy apply.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:20 am
by Red Bigot
Murray, I'm sure you know much more about the internal business structures of this than I do and probably the reasons for the surcharge. I don't argue with the right to charge a surcharge, it's a business decision and only appears to have p---ed-off one customer out of many thousands over the years. I don't care either way, but unless the relationship between the entities is more distant than I expected your analogy is still quite artificial and unnecessary in defence of a valid commercial business decision.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:37 am
by Murray
Red Bigot wrote:Murray, I'm sure you know much more about the internal business structures of this than I do and probably the reasons for the surcharge. I don't argue with the right to charge a surcharge, it's a business decision and only appears to have p---ed-off one customer out of many thousands over the years. I don't care either way, but unless the relationship between the entities is more distant than I expected your analogy is still quite artificial and unnecessary in defence of a valid commercial business decision.
Brian,
Yes, with 20 years with the parent companies of HT and Officeworks, which involved occasional dealings with both companies I expect I do.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:21 am
by Gavin Trott
Anthony Basilone wrote:Dr - 307 wrote:Melbourne is correct.
Bad experience, absolutely. Just made me more determined to steer those who want to listen towards the better retailer(s).
The fact that you need to make fun of/with someone's Christian name suggests that you're not done with Sesame Street just yet.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:36 am
by Red Bigot
Murray wrote:Red Bigot wrote:Murray, I'm sure you know much more about the internal business structures of this than I do and probably the reasons for the surcharge. I don't argue with the right to charge a surcharge, it's a business decision and only appears to have p---ed-off one customer out of many thousands over the years. I don't care either way, but unless the relationship between the entities is more distant than I expected your analogy is still quite artificial and unnecessary in defence of a valid commercial business decision.
Brian,
Yes, with 20 years with the parent companies of HT and Officeworks, which involved occasional dealings with both companies I expect I do.
No, I meant the other wine-related company (ies).
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:11 am
by aj_syrah
Murray wrote: Brian,
In both the cases you cite the branding is the same on both online and shopfront entities. This is not the case here.
As such my HT/Officeworks analogy apply.
Branding is irrelevant, companies can trade under different names via registration of a business name with consumer affairs victoria. It can still be the same company, but just trading under different business names. A search of the ASIC database shows that Harris technology is an Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares, and thus an independant legal entity. It's website claims that it is part of the officworks group, under coles. Officeworks signs off on it's site as Officeworks Superstores Pty Ltd, and is therefore proprietary limited - an independant company. Whilst they may be owned by the same company, they are independant legal entities, and therefore either company is not bound by any contracts entered into by the other. If one orders something from officeworks, they cannot demand delivery from HT. As an example, Coles supermarkets and HT are owned by the same parent company. I cannot order a computer from HT and then turn up at a coles supermarket, and demand that they deliver. Likewise, a packet of tim tams cannot be ordered from coles and then demanded from HT.
But with Winestores that operate an online service: firstly, brandnames are irrelevant. All that is required is for a company is to register with Consumer Affairs Vic, and they can trade under different brand name.
An ASIC search yields that both Strathmore Cellars and Winestar are business names (therefore it is possible that they are both trading names of a single business entity). Following that with a search on consumer affairs victoria, both strathmore cellars and winestar are registered at the same suburb (Strathmore) and postcode [3041] (lending weight to the likelyhood that they are the same). Obviously there is a greater relationship between those 2 business names, compared with officworks and HT.
See this link for journalistic sources: [url="The Age"]http://www.theage.com.au/news/Next/The-sweet-taste-of-ecommerce-success/2004/12/06/1102182189400.html?from=moreStories[/url] see quote below:
The Age wrote:Tucked away in a suburban bottle shop, Bert Werden is a seven-year e-commerce veteran whose site now turns over $4 million a year.
While well-financed competitors such as Foster's WinePlanet - which collapsed in 2001 - burned cash with no hint of return, Werden quietly built his WineStar online wine cellar from the back of a Strathmore bottle shop in Melbourne's north.
I must side with RB on this one. His intuition, as alway, is seemingly correct.