The Auswine Forum

On a related note; I think there are several reasons why we all feel so strongly about BYO and the annoying reluctance of restaurants to do be the right thing and allow us to spend (more) money in their restaurants.

Firstly; when we go to a restaurant and look at the wine list, we know straight away how big the mark up is. This creates a feeling of being ripped off and taken advantage of.
Secondly it is rare for restaurant wine lists to have anything even half way close to be being mature / ready to drink. Since we all have cellars and ready access to older wines, this just makes things worse.
Third; often the wine list selections seems piss poor, badly matched to the cuisine and either designed by a sale rep or someone who wants to look cool. Most of us have more practical experience in wine & food pairings than the staff running many restaurants.

Despite all this, I have still found it is possible to negotiate corkage at a decent number of high end restaurants - but always with the personal connection.

How many have tried to bring your own food into a bar ? I’ve been to a few places where they had an agreement with a local pizza place, but other than that it’s not really allowed, even when the food choice is extremely limited or the kitchen is closed. I’m ok with that, as I am with most restaurants BYO.

I’ve only once taken BYO to a restaurant where none of the guests was a regular. That was for a Sat lunch (quiet in Holland) and it involved a 1911 Vouvray, which was rather rare. We managed to order 3 other bottles that day, so the restaurant did not lose out. I’ve been to a few big dinners where people bring fancy wine along and again it’s always at a place where the organiser has a good relationship with the restaurant. Seems sensible. They make enough money on the dinner (usually the longest tasting menu) and they are investing in their regulars. Don’t understand why a restaurant which any of us frequent a lot would not allow some sort of BYO for a special occasion. If that was a regular of mine, then I’d probably stop going.

There was a good thread on wine-pages a few years ago when someone asked how much corkage you would expect to pay for bringing a magnum of 69 La Tache to dinner. I think the answer was some like £1500, but it might have been a lot more. Either way, the owners of the said bottle did not bother to go to the restaurant.

The sit inside fish and chip restaurant in the city actively encourages vegetarians in the party to bring food in with the nearby falafel place their standard recco.

A local pub invites drinkers to order food to be delivered there, supplying plates, cutlery, condiments and napkins for free

mychurch wrote:How many have tried to bring your own food into a bar ?

My Local actively encourages it, and I know of a few others that also do around Melbourne.

Over the years, when we've done birthday dinners with friends, I'll often arrange to bring a port. If I'm booking, I'll arrange it as part of the booking or if I'm not then I'll contact the restaurant after the booking has been made. I don't think I've ever been refused and I've had cases where we've agreed to corkage and then they haven't charged it. I guess the reason why I've been able to do that is that the restaurant almost certainly doesn't have anything close on their list. I also stress that we will be ordering wine from their list as well - it is an addition rather than a replacement
If it is a milestone year for someone and we are matching the port to their birth year then I always let them know and I think that has helped tip the balance on a couple of occasions.

mychurch wrote:There was a good thread on wine-pages a few years ago when someone asked how much corkage you would expect to pay for bringing a magnum of 69 La Tache to dinner. I think the answer was some like £1500, but it might have been a lot more. Either way, the owners of the said bottle did not bother to go to the restaurant.

I remember about 25 years ago enquiring about corkage for a single bottle at a well know high end French restaurant in Melbourne. Yes, sir, no problem. Oh, its an imperial of an old Redman Cabernet, well that will be $120. We politely declined and went to another venue in Camberwell where said imperial was consumed for virtually no corkage. It was a long time ago, $120 seemed excessive!

adrianb wrote:Do you pay corkage if the wine is corked? I’d say yes as it’s taken the sommelier time, glassware, decanter etc. but what does the customer say? What if the pour through the crust? Unable to extract the cork. Insufficiently removed the lead capsule. It’s full of potential problems and slows down service.

Restaurants are an experience / offering. You can’t bring your dry aged grass fed Hereford steak and ask them to cook it instead of their hormone laden feedlot beef and offer to pay the same price.

Having said all that, a wine loving restaurant will accomodate your special bottle or wine club once you have a rapport almost always.

I always decant at home and then reseal-with vaccuvin or one of those lever arm plastic corks. That way I just need the restaurant to bring the glasses

I’d be happy to bring my own glasses as well as the fastidious preparation at home.

adrianb wrote:Restaurants are an experience / offering. You can’t bring your dry aged grass fed Hereford steak and ask them to cook it instead of their hormone laden feedlot beef and offer to pay the same price.

I'm not sure I understand the analogy. When discussing BYO we're talking corkage, in other words a service fee. Where does "the same price" come into play? If a restaurant charges charges $25 dollars for a steak and you take your own steak and still pay the $25 dollars surely the restaurant comes out ahead. I don't see how this analogy fits with BYO since we're not talking about paying the restaurant the same price we paid for the bottle we're bringing.

Perhaps you meant to convey something else?

Mahmoud.

+1 unless I am really simple...and could be, not sure how hamburgers brought into a licensed premises constitutes BYO. Bit of thread drift me thinks.
By the way booked in for free corkage Monday week.
Cheers Craig

I think allowing BYO and doing it well can actually be a real point of difference for restaurants. Whilst still a city dweller would regularly frequent La Luna in Carlton for that very reason. They at the time charged around $25.00 a bottle corkage and treated the wines almost as their own including decanting and proper glassware. Would catch up there regularly with large groups of wine loving mates or for hosting marketing boardroom style lunches which clients loved as they were able to sample some older properly cellared Aussie wines which I would supplement from the wine list when we ran dry. This was nearly 10 years ago and as far as I know they are still going strong.

If anyone knows of any decent restaurants in Sydney still doing BYO I’d appreciate hearing about them.

Paul

Had a fabulous meal at a little 20 seat Italian place on Goodwood Rd. Beautiful food cooked by the Nonna's and the family and very reasonable prices...with free BYO
already booked to go back

Cheers Craig

phillisc wrote:Had a fabulous meal at a little 20 seat Italian place on Goodwood Rd. Beautiful food cooked by the Nonna's and the family and very reasonable prices...with free BYO
already booked to go back

Cheers Craig

Restaurant name Craig?

Very decent Chinese here on Marion Road, food's pretty decent and well priced. Now, we go there in groups a decent amount, but when we book we let them know we'll bring our own glassware, no BYO or corkage charge at all!

Good arrangement for both, I think!

Gavin Trott wrote:

phillisc wrote:Had a fabulous meal at a little 20 seat Italian place on Goodwood Rd. Beautiful food cooked by the Nonna's and the family and very reasonable prices...with free BYO
already booked to go back

Cheers Craig

Restaurant name Craig?

Very decent Chinese here on Marion Road, food's pretty decent and well priced. Now, we go there in groups a decent amount, but when we book we let them know we'll bring our own glassware, no BYO or corkage charge at all!

Good arrangement for both, I think!

Qualitaly Gavin, a nice play on words, certainly Italian, certainly quality 472 Goodwood Rd Cumberland Park, right next door to Clay and Coal, another nice Indian place which I frequent and on the other side, a liquor outlet should you get short.

Don't know if it would be suitable for an offline, but certainly for an intimate 4-6 it would probably work well. The 7 PM till close session is the one to pick.

Cheers Craig

Great. Will try Qualitaly in the next few weeks. Perhaps with a nice Barbera to cut through the Garlic Bread.

JamieBahrain wrote:Great. Will try Qualitaly in the next few weeks. Perhaps with a nice Barbera to cut through the Garlic Bread.

Did very much enjoy the garlic bread actually, not normally a huge fan, wasted carbs and all that.
The large arancini were superb, as was the prawn, lasagne, chicken linguine and risotto dishes.

Simple food, in simple surroundings done very well. Suspect, they won't mind if you bring your own glasses too

Cheers Craig

JamieBahrain wrote:Great. Will try Qualitaly in the next few weeks. Perhaps with a nice Barbera to cut through the Garlic Bread.

Yeah, does sound good, will try it myself.

.

JamieBahrain wrote:Great. Will try Qualitaly in the next few weeks. Perhaps with a nice Barbera to cut through the Garlic Bread.

Jamie

You back in Radelaide now?

.

Hopefully next weekend Gavin. Driving from Northern NSW. It’s been a crazy-long journey. Can’t wait to get to my cellar and have an aged wine.

JamieBahrain wrote:Hopefully next weekend Gavin. Driving from Northern NSW. It’s been a crazy-long journey. Can’t wait to get to my cellar and have an aged wine.

Ah

Was just thinking you, Craig and I should/might get together and have lunch at Qualitaly, and a glass or two of something good.

Ah well, we'll see what happens eh?

I'm convinced many restaurants don't want BYO because the corkage, in some instances, comes nowhere near the mark-ups they're enjoying.
Case in point: Restaurant on the Parade, over Portrush Rd heading East, had a Barossan, Rhone-style white on their list for $68. Take off GST, less the $15, yes $15, cost and their clear profit is $46.82 per bottle. Why would they want only $25 corkage crumbs!
Also, the profit on many wines available by the glass would make any corkage look feeble. Rule of thumb here is that the first glass pays for the bottle and they rest is clear profit. And often these pouring wines are on special at the big discount stores so the 'first glass' rule is easily achieved.

WineRick, my opinion is a bit different after talking to many business owners, sommeliers over the years.
Said price of $68 red is over and some cases way over, so the $25 corkage starts to stack up. Who would know, but what I pay either retail/CD is likely to be much much higher.

I have a mate who has a restaurant on the Parade for 20+ years and still going...his principles are that he only needs a 100% mark up on wine. He has also dealt less and less with marketing reps from big firms, pointing out that the big box chain down the road sells some lines cheaper than the wholesale price being offered and the same for beer.

I do agree with first glass paying for the bottle, but likewise when I pointed out that first glass of Jim Barry Riesling paid for two +bottles, or just a lazy 550% mark-up on restaurant price vs. retail...then something's not right.
Cheers Craig

phillisc wrote:WineRick, my opinion is a bit different after talking to many business owners, sommeliers over the years.
Said price of $68 red is over and some cases way over, so the $25 corkage starts to stack up. Who would know, but what I pay either retail/CD is likely to be much much higher.

I have a mate who has a restaurant on the Parade for 20+ years and still going...his principles are that he only needs a 100% mark up on wine. He has also dealt less and less with marketing reps from big firms, pointing out that the big box chain down the road sells some lines cheaper than the wholesale price being offered and the same for beer.

I do agree with first glass paying for the bottle, but likewise when I pointed out that first glass of Jim Barry Riesling paid for two +bottles, or just a lazy 550% mark-up on restaurant price vs. retail...then something's not right.
Cheers Craig

$68 Rhone-style white I mentioned above is available for $25 - 28 retail, so their mark-up makes corkage look a little light on

WineRick wrote: Rhone-style white on their list for $68. Take off GST, less the $15, yes $15, cost and their clear profit is $46.82 per bottle. Why would they want only $25 corkage crumbs!

Hi WineRick, Whilst I also hate paying $68 for a $15 wine, I very seriously doubt they made $46.82 clear profit. The cost structure of running a restaurant are dominated by ; wages, rent, interest & overheads. The cost of supply for food and beverages does not come close to all the fixed costs.

Only a few restaurants make good profits, most struggle despite the high mark ups on wine. The economic of restaurants basically suck and the failure rate of the industry is shockingly high.

Gavin Trott wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:Hopefully next weekend Gavin. Driving from Northern NSW. It’s been a crazy-long journey. Can’t wait to get to my cellar and have an aged wine.

Ah

Was just thinking you, Craig and I should/might get together and have lunch at Qualitaly, and a glass or two of something good.

Ah well, we'll see what happens eh?

I will have to gratuitously invite myself along as well!

brodie wrote:

WineRick wrote: Rhone-style white on their list for $68. Take off GST, less the $15, yes $15, cost and their clear profit is $46.82 per bottle. Why would they want only $25 corkage crumbs!

Hi WineRick, Whilst I also hate paying $68 for a $15 wine, I very seriously doubt they made $46.82 clear profit. The cost structure of running a restaurant are dominated by ; wages, rent, interest & overheads. The cost of supply for food and beverages does not come close to all the fixed costs.

Only a few restaurants make good profits, most struggle despite the high mark ups on wine. The economic of restaurants basically suck and the failure rate of the industry is shockingly high.

Brodie, I stand corrected. I should have said they made $46.82 on a $15 bottle. No, it's not clear profit, but it's still a handy mark-up. I would have thought $48 - $50 on a $15 W/S / $27 retail would have more diners returning.
Also, stop vegetables and/or salads being charged as extras, making their mains prices look good.

The same old story, that high markups on wine is needed to cross subsidize food preparation. I wonder if non-drinkers realize what a bargain it is for them to eat out.

Yep, so about what I said at $25-27, retail then following my mate's rule... should be no more than $50. If can be purchased at $15 wholesale, then a nice little earner, and think on that promise, BYO of $20-25 works out well for the restaurant.

Cheers Craig

On BYO for those is Sydney we enjoyed a great French dinner at Sous le Soleil last night. $80 for 3 courses of authentic French cuisine and on Wednesday and Thursday nights they have BYO for $5 per person. It's at 60A Clanville Rd Roseville. It's in a converted house in a park so a bit tricky to find at night. Plenty of individual rooms for groups too which may suit tasting nights.

Chuck wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 10:28 am On BYO for those is Sydney we enjoyed a great French dinner at Sous le Soleil last night. $80 for 3 courses of authentic French cuisine and on Wednesday and Thursday nights they have BYO for $5 per person. It's at 60A Clanville Rd Roseville. It's in a converted house in a park so a bit tricky to find at night. Plenty of individual rooms for groups too which may suit tasting nights.

I’ve been there a few times. Food’s pretty good