Help a newbie (penfold 707)

[brad2407]

Hey guys,
I just started to collect, only because these days Penfold Bin 707 are getting harder to find and definitely more expensive.
Do you guys know of any substitute with the same taste and richness, i believe this range has perfect harmony.
I am looking at within the Penfold range or other brands..
Any information would be appreciated
Cheers Brad

[Craig(NZ)]

What ever happenned to Wynns John Riddoch?
Not talked about much anymore but 15 years ago it was the ying to the 707 yang over this way
Its about $65ish now

A classic aussie

707 is too expensive. $200 here now. Better deal is the Penfolds Cellar Reserve Cab which has been seen as low as $90 here recently

[markg]

Some California Cabs are fantastic.

However, the best of them are 3x more expensive than 707. Does anybody know of any at reasonable prices ? Sean ?

[n4sir]

It's rare these days to have that combination of a flagship cabernet with lashings of (usually) new American oak.

Grant Burge Shadrach would be the one that immediately comes to mind - it's usually a Coonawarra/Barossa blend too.

I think Yalumba Signature has always been a very similar style too, even though it is a blend and in recent years they have stopped including Coonawarra material, and have wound back the new American oak for older & French/Hungarian oak.

Craig's on the mark about the Penfolds Cellar Reserve Barossa Cabernet & Wynns John Riddoch having about the same level of concentration and oak (albeit French). I also seem to remember back in the early '90s the Signature, John Riddoch & Bin 707 were all roughly the same price - things have certainly changed.

Majella & Kaesler are also worth mentioning here as I think they fit the "bigger" style Cabernet theme, maybe Charles Melton & Chateau Reynella too. While Penfolds Bin 389 always had the nickname "baby Grange" it's always been closer to Bin 707, although IMO the last couple of vintages are noticeably weaker in concentration - Leasingham Classic Clare was another wine that fitted the style back in the '90s, but the wine has dropped off significantly since Constellation was running the old Hardys empire and it's now not worth considering.

Cheers,
Ian

[tos]

If it is the richness that you are after/find appealing then good cabernet from the Barossa and McLaren Vale should suit. Wines like Wirra Wirra Angelus, Langmeil Jackaman's Cabernet, Elderton Ashmead, Rockford etc ... I'd steer you away from Coonawarra + Margaret River Cabs which are more likely to have some earthy/leafy/herbal characters.

Although 707 does usually have some Coonawarra Cabernet I believe it is more for structure and/or from warmer sites. 707 is all about a bigger, warm climate style of Cabernet (originally Block 42 in the Barossa).

cheers

[phillisc]

It's rare these days to have that combination of a flagship cabernet with lashings of (usually) new American oak.

Grant Burge Shadrach would be the one that immediately comes to mind - it's usually a Coonawarra/Barossa blend too.

I think Yalumba Signature has always been a very similar style too, even though it is a blend and in recent years they have stopped including Coonawarra material, and have wound back the new American oak for older & French/Hungarian oak.

Craig's on the mark about the Penfolds Cellar Reserve Barossa Cabernet & Wynns John Riddoch having about the same level of concentration and oak (albeit French). I also seem to remember back in the early '90s the Signature, John Riddoch & Bin 707 were all roughly the same price - things have certainly changed.

Majella & Kaesler are also worth mentioning here as I think they fit the "bigger" style Cabernet theme, maybe Charles Melton & Chateau Reynella too. While Penfolds Bin 389 always had the nickname "baby Grange" it's always been closer to Bin 707, although IMO the last couple of vintages are noticeably weaker in concentration - Leasingham Classic Clare was another wine that fitted the style back in the '90s, but the wine has dropped off significantly since Constellation was running the old Hardys empire and it's now not worth considering.

Cheers,
Ian

Yes Ian
1990 Riddoch was $30-33 and a I brought a dozen 1994 707 for a childs birth year for $40.
The next day it won 5 trophies at the Sydney show and was $110, what absolute crap!!
Wynns and Lindermans then got sucked in and put their prices up, I recall a cash back on St George at some stage.

Cabs that I really like in terms of richness are ones from Rockford, Wendouree, agree Angelus is good, Mamre Brook.
Cheers Craig.

[ticklenow1]

Rockford Cabernet in decent vintages is great. I mostly prefer it to the Basket Press. Forrest Hill do a great Cabernet, especially the Block range. Balnaves The Tally has really impressed me the few times I have tried it as well. Saltram Mamre Brook is great VFM and normally a good wine to cellar. Cape Mentelle Cabernet is the best I have had for some time though. The 2001 was superb and a long future awaits.

I think that there are so many good Cabernets and Cabernet blends coming out of the West at the moment. '07, '08 & 09 were fantastic vintages for our West Australian cousins and I for one will begin stocking up on them in the next few years.

[fatdoi]

If i'm collecting Cab Sav on 707 level, I'll go for Moss Wood, Margaret River..... flavour profile it beats 707 hands down imo..... & they can be cellared 20+ years.... my other choice is Henschke Cyril, Eden Valley
Within Penfolds range, i'll get good vintages of 389 as this wine is not 'too' expensive (but getting there) & has good potential to be cellared for decades... flavour profile develops with age, recently had a 98, developing nicely & still quite youthful.

[Peter Schlesinger]

Given the current purchasing power of the Australian dollar, I wonder whether Bordeaux might be a place to look for alternatives. Should be able to get good third growths and the occasional second at the Bin 707 mid to rising $200 price point. Unfortunately I neither drink nor buy enough to offer examples. Used to love Leoville Las Cases - very sad.

Cheers, Peter