And if there are, which do you prefer ?
Burgundy, Bordeaux or (heaven forbid) both ?
Are there many Froggy drinkers out there ?
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Gavin Trott
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Re: Are there many Froggy drinkers out there ?
Timmy wrote:And if there are, which do you prefer ?
Burgundy, Bordeaux or (heaven forbid) both ?
Hello
Limited experience, but Bordeaux much more than burgundy. Great burgundies seem harder to find, and I don't really have the $$ to spend on all the disappointments.
Have had a number of great Bordeaux, and only 1 great Burgundy.
regards
Gavin Trott
Gavin Trott
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Phil Shorten
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Re: Are there many Froggy drinkers out there ?
Timmy wrote:And if there are, which do you prefer ?
Burgundy, Bordeaux or (heaven forbid) both ?
Tim
It's a bit hard to compare given the different grape varieties produced in the respective regions. I like the wines produced from most of France's fine wine regions (especially the Rhone and Languedoc) but don't dabble in Burgundy and Bordeaux too much as the cost of the better wines can be very high.
Although Bordeaux and Burgundy might be the vanguard of French wine internationally, there are many other interesting and good quality wines produced throughout France, and it is often the lesser regions/appelations where undervalued and interesting wine is being made.
Cheers
Phil
Bordeaux has totally different style to burgundy. It is like comparing apple to organge. Yes they are both fruit, but it is so different in taste and appearance.
Both wine regions have its own personally and should be judged on its merit.
I enjoyed wines from region. Bordeaux can produce some very ordinary wines and burgundy can produce grand wines.
personally I believe, French wines should not be drunk young. They are not made to be comsummed upon release. You will be rewarded if you wait....
Both wine regions have its own personally and should be judged on its merit.
I enjoyed wines from region. Bordeaux can produce some very ordinary wines and burgundy can produce grand wines.
personally I believe, French wines should not be drunk young. They are not made to be comsummed upon release. You will be rewarded if you wait....
HEAVEN FORBID ... I have quite a lot of French wines in my cellar and I enjoy both Bordeaux and Burgundy ( as well as Rhone wines ). French wines particularly "sing" with food and are generally more subtle & complex compared to "new world" wines - at least the ones I buy anyway. I have more Rhone than Bordeaux, and more Bordeaux than Burgundy in my cellar which gives some indication of my leanings. However, I would have a lot more Burgundy if I could afford the "good stuff". I hardly buy any low / middle range French wines for my cellar ... I would rather buy less of the top wines and treat myself ( & friends / family from time to time ). I agree with Rob that these wines need time to show there best. I also agree with Phil that there are some good wines outside these areas. The Languedoc wines may not be as long lived but good examples offer interesting wines with some complexity and are quite good value. I also have a particular interest in Bandol. My cellar also has a little top end Cahors & Madiran. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy "New World" wines too, in fact I drink more of them than I do French wines but there is nothing like a bit of diversity. Cheers !
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Guest
Re: Are there many Froggy drinkers out there ?
Timmy wrote:And if there are, which do you prefer ?
Burgundy, Bordeaux or (heaven forbid) both ?
No way ! I won't drink any foreign muck !
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Aussies-Online
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I don't see the point of spending a fortune for a great French wine when we have all this great Australian wine.
As a matter of fact, the French are starting to discover our Australian wine and they do like it. Which is making the French vignerons not so happy.
But when it comes to Champagne, there is only one country in the world. France wins everytime.
As a matter of fact, the French are starting to discover our Australian wine and they do like it. Which is making the French vignerons not so happy.
But when it comes to Champagne, there is only one country in the world. France wins everytime.
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Guest
Aussies-Online wrote:I don't see the point of spending a fortune for a great French wine when we have all this great Australian wine.
May the point remain in question forever...Me, I'm yet to find an Australian red wine with the same combination of power and balance, fist and finesse, that the greatest 1st Growth will show in a great year...Then, I haven't tasted everything from either in every year, far from it!
As an aside, why is it that our wines here are coming in riper and riper? I for one can do without the 15% alcohol, whenever I'm not trying to murder an overseas naysayer. I do love a big godsmacker (sic) of a red, but sometimes a little class is nice with a good meal and I just can't see that happening as we close in on the one fifth alcohol!!??
I much prefer a very good Bordeaux to the avaerage ball buster Aussie red when subtle substantial substance is the order of the day. Why, oh why, are our wines coming in so alcoholic now? All those answering 'Parker', please qualify your response 
Heh!-
Mike Hawkins
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Timmy
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Phil Shorten
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French recommendations
Tim
Here's a few recommendations of producers that should/could be available in Australia with decent quality wines....
Rhone
For value in red northern Rhone, try some of the better Crozes Hermitages or St Joseph - Alain Graillot makes a pretty decent wine year out. Jaboulet's Domaine du Thalabert can be good in certain years, but I think this producer has gone off the boil in recent times.
Looking down south, I'd suggest avoiding the big 3 (Guigal, Chapoutier, Jaboulet) and trying wines from smaller producer. Also, think outside of Chateauneuf-du-Pape. Gigondas regularly matches Chateauneuf for quality, without the same price tag. Ch. St Cosme is very good, as is Domaine Santa Duc. Similarly many village level Cotes du Rhones offer good value, Domaine la Soumade being one of a number of stand-out producers. At basic Cotes du Rhone level it's hard to surpass Le Clos du Caillou.
Southern Rhone offers great value interesting wines that age well in the medium term. Stay away from the 2002 vintage though!
Alsace
Trimbach and Hugel are large quality driven producers, though it is worthwhile trading up to at least their mid-level wines. For value, the co-operative Cave de Turckheim makes decent wine. Albert Mann is another producer worth noting.
Burgundy
I digress to people with better knowledge here as it is a complex region with hundreds of appelations and producers, and the wine ain't cheap. However, if you're exploring the lower rungs on the ladder for red Burgundy, something like Potel's Cotes de Nuits Villages isn't a bad buy.
Don't rule out Beaujolais, at least the 10 Crus, particularly Morgon and Moulin-a-Vent. Georges Dubeouf is the name everyone associates with Beaujolais, but the likes of Domaine Diochon and Domaine les Fines Graves make some seriously good wine.
The Maconnais offers the best value for white Burgundy, but for value wines that are a real contrast to Australian chardonnay I'd head to Chablis. It is worthwhile trading up price-wise here and laying a few bottles down - Premier Cru and Grand Cru Chablis needs bottle age to show its best.
You can spend a lot of money on Meursault, Chassaagne-Montrachet and Puligny-Montrachet, and occasionally it can be worth it. Michel-Colin Deleger makes some very good stuff. As high as some may rate Giaconda, IMHO it struggles to match real good quality white Burgundy.
Bordeaux
I would again digress to the views of those with better knowledge. However, I think it is generally fair to say that you have to be prepared to spend a decent amount of cash to get decent quality in Bordeaux, and you also have to be very mindful of vintage. However, for better value wines, try the 2nd wines of the Crus Classes, or top level Crus Bourgeois. It's also worthwhile seeking out some of the outlier appelations such as Fronsac, Cotes de Bourg and Premieres Cotes de Bordeaux.
South-West France
There are interesting wines from Cahors, Madiran. If they've made to Oz, there's half a chance they're decent plonk, so give them a try. Expect more "rustic" but nevertheless interesting styles.
Loire Valley
Not being a Muscadet drinker I can't comment. Similarly, I don't drink much Loire Chenin Blanc or Cabernet Franc - Huet and Joly are near or at the top of the tree for Chenin Blanc. As to Sauvignon Blanc, I know that Pascal Jolivets wines make it Down Under. Both the Sancerre and Pouilly Fume are good expressions of their appelation and I think they offer more interest and sophistication that the vast majority of NZ sauvignons.
Languedoc-Rousillon and Provence
A huge area with a hell of a lot of wine being made and a wide difference in quality from the bottom rung to the top of the ladder. I'd be guided by a specialist retailer here, depending on what product is available Down Under.
Hope this has been of some use.
Cheers
Phil
Here's a few recommendations of producers that should/could be available in Australia with decent quality wines....
Rhone
For value in red northern Rhone, try some of the better Crozes Hermitages or St Joseph - Alain Graillot makes a pretty decent wine year out. Jaboulet's Domaine du Thalabert can be good in certain years, but I think this producer has gone off the boil in recent times.
Looking down south, I'd suggest avoiding the big 3 (Guigal, Chapoutier, Jaboulet) and trying wines from smaller producer. Also, think outside of Chateauneuf-du-Pape. Gigondas regularly matches Chateauneuf for quality, without the same price tag. Ch. St Cosme is very good, as is Domaine Santa Duc. Similarly many village level Cotes du Rhones offer good value, Domaine la Soumade being one of a number of stand-out producers. At basic Cotes du Rhone level it's hard to surpass Le Clos du Caillou.
Southern Rhone offers great value interesting wines that age well in the medium term. Stay away from the 2002 vintage though!
Alsace
Trimbach and Hugel are large quality driven producers, though it is worthwhile trading up to at least their mid-level wines. For value, the co-operative Cave de Turckheim makes decent wine. Albert Mann is another producer worth noting.
Burgundy
I digress to people with better knowledge here as it is a complex region with hundreds of appelations and producers, and the wine ain't cheap. However, if you're exploring the lower rungs on the ladder for red Burgundy, something like Potel's Cotes de Nuits Villages isn't a bad buy.
Don't rule out Beaujolais, at least the 10 Crus, particularly Morgon and Moulin-a-Vent. Georges Dubeouf is the name everyone associates with Beaujolais, but the likes of Domaine Diochon and Domaine les Fines Graves make some seriously good wine.
The Maconnais offers the best value for white Burgundy, but for value wines that are a real contrast to Australian chardonnay I'd head to Chablis. It is worthwhile trading up price-wise here and laying a few bottles down - Premier Cru and Grand Cru Chablis needs bottle age to show its best.
You can spend a lot of money on Meursault, Chassaagne-Montrachet and Puligny-Montrachet, and occasionally it can be worth it. Michel-Colin Deleger makes some very good stuff. As high as some may rate Giaconda, IMHO it struggles to match real good quality white Burgundy.
Bordeaux
I would again digress to the views of those with better knowledge. However, I think it is generally fair to say that you have to be prepared to spend a decent amount of cash to get decent quality in Bordeaux, and you also have to be very mindful of vintage. However, for better value wines, try the 2nd wines of the Crus Classes, or top level Crus Bourgeois. It's also worthwhile seeking out some of the outlier appelations such as Fronsac, Cotes de Bourg and Premieres Cotes de Bordeaux.
South-West France
There are interesting wines from Cahors, Madiran. If they've made to Oz, there's half a chance they're decent plonk, so give them a try. Expect more "rustic" but nevertheless interesting styles.
Loire Valley
Not being a Muscadet drinker I can't comment. Similarly, I don't drink much Loire Chenin Blanc or Cabernet Franc - Huet and Joly are near or at the top of the tree for Chenin Blanc. As to Sauvignon Blanc, I know that Pascal Jolivets wines make it Down Under. Both the Sancerre and Pouilly Fume are good expressions of their appelation and I think they offer more interest and sophistication that the vast majority of NZ sauvignons.
Languedoc-Rousillon and Provence
A huge area with a hell of a lot of wine being made and a wide difference in quality from the bottom rung to the top of the ladder. I'd be guided by a specialist retailer here, depending on what product is available Down Under.
Hope this has been of some use.
Cheers
Phil
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JamieBahrain
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