Cellar Doors

[David]

What do folks see important for cellar doors to have and what makes a good cellar door? Also are there things in some cellar doors that do not make for a good experience.

[PaulG]

To a large extent, for me at least, the people make a cellar door. Having staff who know the wine, are enthusiastic about it, and are willing to share both their time and knowledge with visitors is a must.

Good and easy access to Spittoons is great (portable ones on the counter in preference to having to go to a barrel at the back) is another plus, as are decent tasting glasses.

Making it memorable in terms of decor and people though is what will keep me coming back. Some of my favourite cellar doors don't necessarily have the best wine I've ever tasted, but the pleasure of meeting people who love the wine they are making, and genuinely want to share their enthusiasm with their customers will trump it every time.

[Loztralia]

I'll have a crack at this. Things I look for in a cellar door:
- Most important of all is personal interaction from staff who know their wine. I'd consider myself an enthusiastic amateur and I appreciate having the staff pick up on my level of expertise and pitch to that - effectively I want to be served by someone who knows more than me and can communicate some of that knowledge in a way that isn't condescending. To be fair I have much more frequently encountered staff who don't know enough about what they're selling than ones who blind me with science or are very patronising, but both extremes are possible.
- This might be very snobby but it's always nice to feel that a cellar door will do a bit more for people with a genuine interest. I totally get why there is a reluctance to make premium wines generally available for tasting lest they be hoovered up by bus tour locusts but it's also much appreciated when things that "aren't for tasting" get brought out when it's quiet and you have shown you aren't just there for free booze.
- By contrast, I've had occasions on which I've felt (possibly by virtue of my age - not that I'm that young) that I've been written off as a serious wine person and treated as such. That seems self-defeating to me as I've generally been very loyal to good producers who have helped widen my understanding. But I guess you have to make a call and I assume I don't look like I'm a good bet to buy multiple cases.
- I don't generally mind paying for tastings provided the cost is refundable off purchases. I would generally buy at least one bottle from anywhere that has anything drinkable anyway, just for politeness, so paying a $5 "deposit" isn't really a concern. That said, I have found that there is a slight correlation between paid tastings and horrible wine, in Australia at least.
- I'd pretty much walk out at the sight of plastic glasses.
- Not remotely bothered either way by impressive premises or sundry merchandise item availability (unless it happens to be a week or so before my mum's birthday, which I guess is what that stuff is for).
- Cellar door only wines or cellar release vintages are always a bonus.

[Michael R]

Cellar door only wines or cellar release vintages are always a bonus

Agreed, i also rate picking up hard-to-find bottles/vintages at cellar doors very highly.

Generally the staff and other customers will largely dictate the experience. However i have alot of sympathy for cellar door operations and find an advance email/phonecall outlining your support and interest in certain wineries is often a great way to engage with the passionate people working there. Its generally paid off in spades (in terms of cellar door experience) for me previously, particularly with smaller producers.

[KMP]

What do folks see important for cellar doors to have and what makes a good cellar door? Also are there things in some cellar doors that do not make for a good experience.

Now why would you want to change your "cellar door", its one of the friendliest around.

What you do need is a web site where I can order wines using my credit card and have them shipped to relatives in Oz so I have excellent wine to drink when I visit each December.

That said, what I look for in a cellar door are
1) Access to as many of the wines as possible. If that means a refundable charge OK (e.g. Torbreck)
2) Knowledgeable people (you have that), good glassware (e.g. Two hands), spittoons (Smithy at Warrabilla has great spittoons, as long as there is not a crowd in there).
3) Enough staff to handle both walk-ins and appointments. And even better have the appointments in a separate place (barrel room?) so the drop-ins don’t feel left out and the folks with the appointment have the full attention of the cellar door individual doing the appointment.
4) A web site that gives hours of operation, directions, wines available etc. so that folks don’t front up only to find the place closed. Printed matter with this info spread around the local B&Bs, hotels/motels, restaurants that serve your wines – we found info on some Barossa wineries at Cafe Schönegg near Canberra - can help attact visitors
5) An ordering sheet that lists the available wines in the order to be tasted, space to make a few notes and wine cost, shipping cost, fax, phone numbers, address etc , etc so that visitors can take it away and order wines at their leisure. (An order sheet should also be printable from the web site so that orders can be faxed back).
6) An accessible cellar door – off road access gets boring fast.
7) A cellar door dog or cat can add to the experience big time, at least if Miranda and I are visiting

Turn-offs
1) Inattention by the staff
2) Pouring the wines too quickly. Some people, like me, need to spend time with the wines esp. if they are any good
3) Anything that competes with the tasting - loud music, loud conversation, phone calls etc
4) Pouring from bottles that have been sitting around "since last week"
5) Not giving a second pour when asked, esp. if I'm spitting

In fact check out the movie "Sideways" which has a winery called "Frass Canyon" - that is not the cellar door you want!

Mike

[Sharkey]

I agree with everything that has already been mentioned but the one thing that I find is important, but is sadly lacking at a lot of cellar doors, is shade in the carpark.

How often are you wine tasting and you have picked up an assortment of bottles from a few cellar doors and the next winery you visit has no shade in the carpark? It always seems to be a hot day and you either end up rushing your visit so you don't cook the wine you have left in the car, or you just turn around and drive back out.

[rens]

Everything that has been said. The shade is a fantastic idea. I know that I rush if I see no shade.
It has been mentioned but respect for the people doing the tasting. To often cellar door attendants see me walkup in thongs and because I'm young think I'm there to get pissed. I wear a suit to work 5 days a week and like to dress down when I'm not working. Little do they know I have money to spend on their product. Even if I like their wine, but they treat me with contempt I'm out the door. If I like their wines, get good service and respect, I buy. Then I get on their mailing list and I'll buy the next vintage and the one after that and so on.
I also like the people to get an understanding of my wine knowledge and impart some of theirs to me without a lecture.
I like to taste some of the premium wines and I don't mind paying a 'deposit' for the privilage. I'd rather taste it and know it was good (and buy 6) than take a punt and buy one bottle only to find it is sensational and have to chase more.

[orpheus]

Everything that has been said. The shade is a fantastic idea. I know that I rush if I see no shade.
It has been mentioned but respect for the people doing the tasting. To often cellar door attendants see me walkup in thongs and because I'm young think I'm there to get pissed. I wear a suit to work 5 days a week and like to dress down when I'm not working. Little do they know I have money to spend on their product. Even if I like their wine, but they treat me with contempt I'm out the door. If I like their wines, get good service and respect, I buy. Then I get on their mailing list and I'll buy the next vintage and the one after that and so on.
I also like the people to get an understanding of my wine knowledge and impart some of theirs to me without a lecture.
I like to taste some of the premium wines and I don't mind paying a 'deposit' for the privilage. I'd rather taste it and know it was good (and buy 6) than take a punt and buy one bottle only to find it is sensational and have to chase more.

Very hard for those of us who have accumulated some knowledge not to want "the people to get an understanding of [our] wine knowledge". However, I resist this impulse these days.

How you dress is a matter for you, and in a perfect world, it would not make any difference. However, I don't blame those at the cellar door if they make a few assumptions based on what you wear to taste wine.

[daver6]

My wife is an expert spitter. People at cellar doors see her spit and just assume we are part of the wine industry and we generally get treated pretty well.

As said previously. Easy access to a spittoon is essneital. I dont want to have to walk 10 metres to use one.

[rens]

Everything that has been said. The shade is a fantastic idea. I know that I rush if I see no shade.
It has been mentioned but respect for the people doing the tasting. To often cellar door attendants see me walkup in thongs and because I'm young think I'm there to get pissed. I wear a suit to work 5 days a week and like to dress down when I'm not working. Little do they know I have money to spend on their product. Even if I like their wine, but they treat me with contempt I'm out the door. If I like their wines, get good service and respect, I buy. Then I get on their mailing list and I'll buy the next vintage and the one after that and so on.
I also like the people to get an understanding of my wine knowledge and impart some of theirs to me without a lecture.
I like to taste some of the premium wines and I don't mind paying a 'deposit' for the privilage. I'd rather taste it and know it was good (and buy 6) than take a punt and buy one bottle only to find it is sensational and have to chase more.

Very hard for those of us who have accumulated some knowledge not to want "the people to get an understanding of [our] wine knowledge". However, I resist this impulse these days.

How you dress is a matter for you, and in a perfect world, it would not make any difference. However, I don't blame those at the cellar door if they make a few assumptions based on what you wear to taste wine.

Perhaps I need to leave a few clues. I may need to go to Thailand and get a fake rolex. I'm going to go home tonight and practice spitting.

[KMP]

Everything that has been said. The shade is a fantastic idea. I know that I rush if I see no shade.
It has been mentioned but respect for the people doing the tasting. To often cellar door attendants see me walkup in thongs and because I'm young think I'm there to get pissed. I wear a suit to work 5 days a week and like to dress down when I'm not working. Little do they know I have money to spend on their product. Even if I like their wine, but they treat me with contempt I'm out the door. If I like their wines, get good service and respect, I buy. Then I get on their mailing list and I'll buy the next vintage and the one after that and so on.
I also like the people to get an understanding of my wine knowledge and impart some of theirs to me without a lecture.
I like to taste some of the premium wines and I don't mind paying a 'deposit' for the privilage. I'd rather taste it and know it was good (and buy 6) than take a punt and buy one bottle only to find it is sensational and have to chase more.

As a younger person I used to think how you dressed did matter, but a friend of mine was never dressed "properly" and he always was able to impress more than I, who was dressed "properly". I still dress "properly" these days but when I go to cellar doors that I really want to visit I have note pad and pen and I take notes as I taste. That always gets the attention of the folks behind the bar. I'm pretty sure that even if I looked daggy my note taking would still be what the cellar door staff notice.

Mike

[orpheus]

Is there a web-site which addresses the question of how to spit?

I suspect the key is to spit expertly, raise one's eyebrows barely perceptibly after tasting a wine and say nothing.

[orpheus]

Here's a link.

www.organicwinejournal.com/index.php/20 ... spit-wine/

[rens]

I too was propted to have a look at how to spit wine. I found this.

http://www.slate.com/id/2071619/

quiet amusing writing style too.

[Softie]

Great - with pictures gives us "the spitting image".

[GraemeG]

All good responses. Decent glasses, range of fresh wines (incl CD-only, museum), knowledgeable staff. A printed take-away/list, with prices. Spittoons front and back. Shady carpark is a bonus!
In my present life I've got to say that a small cordoned-off area with enough (quiet) toys to keep age 2-10 amused for 15 mins might result in some grateful parent customers (since you can't leave the kids in the car these days ). And, yes, don't pre-judge your walk-ins by appearance...
For my part, I'll ask questions if my interest is piqued. I'm not expecting to be treated as some guru, even if I am taking notes. And if you're particularly busy, I'll be patient, too, not the snob at the counter monopolising the server's time with show-offy questions expecting everyone else to be impressed while they wait their turn...

Incidentally, nothing builds your (visitor) cred like accurate spitting, especially from a slight distance...
cheers,
Graeme

[DJ]

As far as spitting goes the best advice I know is to practice in the shower - a mouthful of water hitting the drain will get you in good practice for tastings. Years ago I was running a tasting and one guy spat so badly everyone had a go at him - he was so embarassed he practiced for the following week and was fine.

[Loztralia]

As far as spitting goes the best advice I know is to practice in the shower

That's a good suggestion but unfortunately my wife's banned me from taking wine into the shower.

Incidentally, as far as CD experiences go you can't beat a quiet boutique winery where you hit it off with the winemaker and get taken on an impromptu visit backstage. Checking out approximations of next year's blends straight out of a pipette and spitting among the barrels is a step up IMO.

[Rawshack]

I visit different cellar doors for different reasons; if the family are tagging along then somewhere 'family friendly' (God I hate that term) is good. I'd be looking for somewhere my 2 year old can run riot without causing too much chaos why I taste - Mitchelton in Central Victoria gets a massive thumbs up for this

If I'm on my own, then I want to go somewhere I can talk to the people involved and get an understanding of what they're about; I spent an age at Lanes End as part of the Bud Burst Festival talking about the winemakers undying love of Chardonnay. I had some great times talking to Fred Pizzini about his Nebbiolo's and Creedance Clearwater Revival.

What I don't want though is to be treated like a walking bank note, or dismissed if I ask a question. I once visited Galli Estate and tasted some great wines, yet was treated with disdain by the person (who I later discovered to be quite senior) when I asked questions about the wine. Shame, as the food at Galli is great