Cellaring Potential - Please help

[Andy]

Morning all,

Am seeking everyoneÂ’s expertise on the potential for improvement of a few wines. I am soon to move overseas for an indefinite period (around three years) and am therefore having to go through my cellar and work out what to keep and what gets grunk in the next month.

I began getting into wine about five years ago, so most of my collection is post 96’ – with a few auction purchases thrown in for age. In determining what to keep, I am obviously only after wines that will have improved in three years from how they are drinking today. The basic philosophy I have when considering whether to keep these wines or drink now is to consider the following factors:

1. Variety – cabernets age longer and more consistently than shiraz. Australian pinot barely ages at all (with a few exceptions);
2. Pedigree – wines with a proven track record are a more reliable cellaring prospect than new comers;
3. Vintage/general quality – obviously higher quality wines from better vintages have a greater potential to reward cellaring; and
4. Recommendations – I generally rely on Jeremy Oliver, James Halliday, Max Allen and recommendations from this site.

Please let me know if I am mistaken with any of these assumptions.

So with that in mind, I seek assistance in deciding whether to drink the following now, as opposed to 2007+. The scores and drinking windows are per JO, who I like but can stretch the timing a bit):

Plan to drink in the next month (i.e. not cellar futher):
1991 Ingoldby Cabernet Sauvignon (18.3; 2003-2011)
1997 Oakridge Estate Reserve Cab Sauv (16.6; 2006-2009+)
1993 Wynns Cabernet Sauvignon (18.0; 2005-2013)
1990 Penfolds Bin 407 (18; 2002-2010)
1991 Penfolds Bin 389 (18.4; 2003-2011)

Plan to cellar for a futher 3 years but am unsure of potential for improvement:
2001 Cape Barren Shiraz (McLaren Vale)
2001 Ulithorne Frux Frugis (McLaren Vale)
1995 Evans & Tate Shiraz (17.8; 2007-2015)
1998 Katnook Prodigy (19.2; 2006-2010)
1992 Leasingham Clare Classic Cabernet Sauvignon (18.5; 2004-2012)
1997 Leasingham Clare Classic Shiraz (18; 2005-2009)
1996 Penfolds Bin 28 Kalimna (18.5; 2008-2016)
1998 St Hallet Blackwell Shiraz (18.7; 2006-2010)

Plan to cellar for a futher 3 years and am confident of potential for improvement:
1997 Balgownie Shiraz (18.2; 2009-2017)
2001 Bannockburn Shiraz (18.7; 2009-2013)
2000 Colodstream Reserve Cabernet (18.8; 2008-2012)
2001 D'Arrenberg Galvo Garage (TORB recommended 2007ish)
2000 Giaconda Chardonnay (19.0; 2008-2012)
2001 Howard Park Cabernet ("best Australian wine last year bar non"?!)
1998 Katnook Cabernet Sauvignon (18.7; 2010-2018)
1994 Lindemans St George (18.5; 2006-2014)
1998 Jacobs Creek Limited Release Shiraz-Cabernet (18.8; 2010-2018+)
1998 St Hugo Cabernet (18.5; 2006-2010)
1998 Penfolds Bin 28 Kalimna Shiraz (18.6; 2010-2018)
1998 Penfolds Bin 407 Cabernet (17.6; 2006-2010)
1998 Rosemount Show Reserve Cabernet (18.3; 2010-2018)
2001 Turkey Flat Shiraz (17.2; 2006-2009)
1998 Wynns Cabernet (17.3; 2006-2010)

Thanks in advance;

Cheers

Andy

[TORB]

Please let me know if I am mistaken with any of these assumptions.

So with that in mind, I seek assistance in deciding whether to drink the following now, as opposed to 2007+. The scores and drinking windows are per JO, who I like but can stretch the timing a bit):

Plan to drink in the next month (i.e. not cellar further):
1991 Ingoldby Cabernet Sauvignon (18.3; 2003-2011)
1997 Oakridge Estate Reserve Cab Sauv (16.6; 2006-2009+)
1993 Wynns Cabernet Sauvignon (18.0; 2005-2013)
1990 Penfolds Bin 407 (18; 2002-2010)
1991 Penfolds Bin 389 (18.4; 2003-2011)

Looks right to me.

Plan to cellar for a futher 3 years but am unsure of potential for improvement:
1998 Katnook Prodigy (19.2; 2006-2010)
1992 Leasingham Clare Classic Cabernet Sauvignon (18.5; 2004-2012)
1997 Leasingham Clare Classic Shiraz (18; 2005-2009)

The Prodigy should continue to improve. The CC cab is just entered its drinking window and may not improve but should go 7 years more with no problem.

The 97 CC Shiraz is OK but I doubt it will improve, I recently unloaded mine at auction.

Plan to cellar for a further 3 years and am confident of potential for improvement:
1998 Penfolds Bin 407 Cabernet (17.6; 2006-2010)
1998 Rosemount Show Reserve Cabernet (18.3; 2010-2018)
1998 Wynns Cabernet (17.3; 2006-2010)

I would put these in the first category. The Bin 407 will hold but I doubt it will get better.

[Andy]

Thanks TORB,

Apologies if I listed too many wines, but sorting out the cellar for the next three years is proving quite a dilemna.

Interesting that you have offloaded the 97' CC Shiraz. I bought this on release and it then won the Winestate Wine of the Year. When I opened a bottle in 2000/01 I was struck by the tannnins - they were so dusty it really distracted me from the fruit. The wine felt "dirty".

Will bump up the 98 407 and maybe the 98' Wynns BL to drink now. However, I would have thought the 98' Bin 28 and 98' Rosemount SR CS would have decent prospects for improvement. Has anyone tried these wines recently?

Cheers

Andy

[simm]

Hi Andy!

Ric, agree with the Rosemount going into the first category but If the rest are styles that Andy likes I wouldn't hesitate to keep them into the third simply because I think they won't have any problems making three years. Maybe the best way would be to throw a bottle of each into the first category, Andy, and see whether or not you think they are worth your while keeping that long.

good luck over sea's,

[TORB]

Andy,

The Bin 28 should be fine, sorry I had one eye still closed when I responded to that post. I have now removed the Bin from the third list.

[simm]

Andy,

The Bin 28 should be fine, sorry I had one eye still closed when I responded to that post. I have now removed the Bin from the third list.

You truly don't think the BL 98 is worth keeping, Ric? Looks like I should be trying some. I'm certainly glad I only bought two bottles of the Rosemount Sh + Cab 98's though with all the negativity surrounding thier longevity. Don't like the oak in it when it's new so what the hey.

Have a better one,

[TORB]

Simm,

Long time readers of this forum may remember me harping on about the quality decline of the Wynn's Black Label. After the release of the 1995 vintage I stated that IMO the quality of wine was gradually declining over time but as it was doing so slowly, most people were not noticing it and kept on rabbiting on about it from time to time. I also stated the real proof would be the release of the 98 because it was a great vintage and the wine should be one of the best ever.

For the record, two points.

Firstly I have it as best drinking from 2005-2008.
Secondly, when I interviewed Finn at SC in late 2002 he stated the condition of the vines at Wynn's required a lot of work to bring them back to the level they should be at so its no surprise this wine is not as good as say the 90 or 91.

[simm]

Simm,

Long time readers of this forum may remember me harping on about the quality decline of the Wynn's Black Label. After the release of the 1995 vintage I stated that IMO the quality of wine was gradually declining over time but as it was doing so slowly, most people were not noticing it and kept on rabbiting on about it from time to time. I also stated the real proof would be the release of the 98 because it was a great vintage and the wine should be one of the best ever.

For the record, two points.

Firstly I have it as best drinking from 2005-2008.
Secondly, when I interviewed Finn at SC in late 2002 he stated the condition of the vines at Wynn's required a lot of work to bring them back to the level they should be at so its no surprise this wine is not as good as say the 90 or 91.

So I've read. The Shiraz is a case in point too, but I've never had the BL past 96 so I have no benchmark. Do you think there's a chance for the 2003 vintage once the vines get up again? Read the Sue Hoddr article in Wine and she believes the 03 is looking good enough to start up John Riddoch again. This may mean that BL will have to wait a while to get back on track, or it might be the opposite. Here's hoping. The BL was one of my fathers favourite wines when I was knee high to a punt so it has a strange hold on me. With any luck the prices won't rise with the quality.

cheers Ric,

[davidg]

Morning all,

Am seeking everyoneÂ’s expertise on the potential for improvement of a few wines. I am soon to move overseas for an indefinite period (around three years) and am therefore having to go through my cellar and work out what to keep and what gets grunk in the next month.
Andy

I was in this exact same position about 10 years ago or so. So I feel your pain. In my case I was lucky enough to know about 9 months in advance that I was going. I weighed up the issues of storage costs - unknown length of time away - cellaring potential and all that stuff.

In the end I came to the decision that the easiest solution was to drink it all (OK it was a pretty small cellar at the time). After 9 months of regular dinner parties and giving some wine away to those who would appreciate it, we cleared through a lot of wine. 10 years (and two countries) later... I have learned a fair bit from that experience.

1. You can create a red wine drinker out of a c-thu-ite

2. I turned a close friend into a Red Bigot.

3. I regularly get invited to nice dinners by friends who remember my generosity and therefore have no hesitation in cracking open another bottle of "the good stuff"

4. Three years plus easily turns into 10.


David

[TORB]

Simm,

The news from Wynn's re the Black Label should be good. On two occasions recently in emails, Finn has mentioned that he is very happy with the work done on the vines on Coonawarra. And he is not prone to BS or exaggeration.

[Andy]

David

Thanks for the advice - I have known I am leaving for a while and have made a conscious effort to run down the stocks. However, it has taken a lifestyle change to stop continually stocking up the collection. Weekends just aren't as fun when you can't do some damage to the credit card.

I have tried to get the cellar down to just a few dozen bottles so when I do come back I have some mature good stuff while I build the cellar again. Also, some of the bottles I have are just too young to drink now and it would be a disservice to them if I did (00' Giaconda Chardonnay/ 01 Howard Park Cabernet etc.).

I am lucky enough to be able to store the few cases in a relatives cellar, though I will be sure to pass on some "carrying charges"!

Still a bit surprised by people's assessment of the 98' Rosemount SR Cabernet's potential to mature. I understood the SR Shiraz was a lesser wine, but I thought the cabernet was good for the medium-long term. I have a few so will crack one soon and report back.

Cheers

Andy