Oliver bites bullet - drops HoG

[GraemeG]

Saw Jeremy Oliver's 2010 guide in a bookshop the other day. Full redesign - he claims more info, but the format is less tidy (outside the font being - perhaps understandably - smaller).
Anyway, he's bitten his statistical bullet, and dropped Hill of Grace to 4 stars - a place it should have been by his own proclaimed measure - for some years.
I always reckoned that Tyrrells Vat 1 deserved the 5-star score, but he's got a gap from the 2002 to 2007 vintage - clearly Tyrrell's never send him the Private Bin releases. And it stays at 4*.
At some point I'll probably buy the book to keep my run going, but $33 that I saw it for is really going it...
cheers,
Graeme

[Loztralia]

Can people with longer-term experience than I tell me how much change there is, year to year, in JO's back vintage ratings? By which I mean what proportion of ratings are updated, not the degree by which they change.

It always struck me that purely from a sales perspective and with no view on the quality of the writers themselves the Halliday approach makes more sense, ie covering as wide a range as possible but only vintages that are currently available. That way the buyer pretty much has to get Halliday's guide every year as the TNs are almost all new content, while the incremental value of a new Oliver is much less. I'd probably buy an Oliver guide every three or four years, for instance.

Of course that would be negated if JO is tasting a lot of back vintages and updating scores as the wines age - but I don't know if that's the case. If it is, perhaps there would be some value in his doing something like putting an asterisk next to scores that have been updated since last year?

[Bill]

perhaps there would be some value in his doing something like putting an asterisk next to scores that have been updated since last year?

I agree, although even better would be if he could list the 'date last tasted' next to the scores.

[daz]

Never have taken any notice of Oliver but have subscribed to both of Halliday's online sites i.e. Winepros and Wine Companion, the latter perhaps the most comprehensive and organised Oz wine info resource currently available, The Wine Front getting there.

[Gary W]

Re Vat 1 - 2002 would be the current commercial release. He must have tried the 2007 at some stage and put it in. They don't send the private bin wines (early release) generally to anyone as far as I know (although Halliday has more now in the wine companion). They send commercial release i.e. 06 Vat 9 etc.

It would be nice to see a volume greater than eight tasting notes in four months on his website, however....must be too busy with the book...

GW

[TiggerK]

Yes I feel JO is dropping the ball a bit at the moment. I started off with his advice, and always respected it, although these days I find his top rated wines a little 'clinical' perhaps. But after his website fiasco a few months back (bigger and better but all fizzled out - I sympathise though as I'm in IT), his site has been very low on updates. He did extend everyone's subscription though which was a nice move.

I expect he's certainly focusing heavily on the emerging China/Asia wine appreciation market, wants to get his palate in the door early I suspect, and fair enough.

Still a good resource for an indication of a lot of the older wines though... but yes would be nice to have some of them updated with current tastings, but easier said than done of course.

Cheers
TiggerK

[platinum]

I always buy the book and was subscribed to the site but my subscription expired just before he extended all current subscribers so I didnt re subscribe as i got bugger all the last couple of months of my subscription. I am subscribed to Winefront.

I regards to HOG not being at the top it is a shame because in years like 02 it can be as good as any wine made in this country but I do think it is far too inconsistent esp for its price. Mt ED could be a 5 star in his book before HOG gets back there. I agree 100% with JO on the 06 Mt Ed, its a super super Shiraz right up there and maybe even better than the 02 Edelstone. I have had a couple of bottles already and its a wine that I think will drink well right through its very long life as it a delight now and will only improve

[Michael McNally]

Re Vat 1 - 2002 would be the current commercial release. He must have tried the 2007 at some stage and put it in. They don't send the private bin wines (early release) generally to anyone as far as I know (although Halliday has more now in the wine companion). They send commercial release i.e. 06 Vat 9 etc.

It would be nice to see a volume greater than eight tasting notes in four months on his website, however....must be too busy with the book...

GW

Ouch

Nice that you still subscribe Gary

Cheers

Michael

[Gary W]

I pretty much subscribe to everything and have for a long while because
1) I like to support independent wine media
2) It is very important to keep abreast of things - new and exciting wines that I may have missed and reckon I should try (unlikely, though, that JO is the place to discover many of these). Same reason for checking forums. Need to keep on top of things and these are some of the best tools. Sitting in a room waiting for the boxes to come in is not the best (or smartest) way of working. Twitter is another useful tool too.

GW

[Red Bigot]

But after his website fiasco a few months back (bigger and better but all fizzled out - I sympathise though as I'm in IT)

After nearly 40 years "in IT" I have very little sympathy for people responsible for failed IT projects, I've spent too much time trying to rescue them or cleaning up the mess. In the JO case it was about his 4th time around, from what I saw during it's brief existence it should have been immediately and plainly/painfully obvious that the new site wasn't either pretty or functional.

[TiggerK]

I have no sympathy for those responsible, but I suspect JO may have only been a spectator to the whole drama, listening to the great promises of the so-called web experts. I got the impression that he expected so much more, but it was not delivered. So often the case.

I didn't know it wasn't his first big change of site though... should know better perhaps.

Cheers
TiggerK

P.S Never actually got to see the new 'new' site...

[Gary W]

The 'new' site is still up here - http://www.onwine.com.au/AnnouncementRe ... x?ID=20038

GW

[Red Bigot]

I have no sympathy for those responsible, but I suspect JO may have only been a spectator to the whole drama, listening to the great promises of the so-called web experts. I got the impression that he expected so much more, but it was not delivered. So often the case.

I didn't know it wasn't his first big change of site though... should know better perhaps.

Cheers
TiggerK

P.S Never actually got to see the new 'new' site...

The so-called web expert(s) was a close friend of JO's, maybe not so close now... IT development rule number 44: Don't undertake critical IT projects with family or friends. (Kemeny's should have heeded this rule too, they still haven't delivered a new web site with online ordering after about 4 years of development.)
It's JO's business and his site, if he can't describe what he wants and didn't know that what he tried to implement was pretty hopeless then he's as much responsible as the friend who appeared not to be able to deliver a usable site, whatever it was meant to be.
I know he's been busy with the launch of the new edition of his annual, and other activities including promoting Australian wine in China, but no news to subscribers since the start of June and a paltry number of tasting notes published recently is pretty insulting to his subscribers. With the Halliday Wine Companion all the new tasting notes in the new edition of the book were online as soon as the book was released and there are 100 new TN per month.
I'm fast losing patience.

[monghead]

I used to log on and check his site several times a week. Now, I would have a look maybe once a month. Actually, I can't remember the last time I had a look- ?maybe August. I will certainly not renew my subscription...

Monghead.

[ChrisV]

although these days I find his top rated wines a little 'clinical' perhaps

Yeah, that's a good word for it. I always find a lot of his top-rated wines technically flawless, but lacking much interest or character.