Another example of how narrow and fix minded americans are

ufo · Post by **ufo** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:19 am

Or should I say misinformed. I ran in to below article on a web site called
Wine Library. Take a look at it and see it yourself.

http://terroir.winelibrary.com/category ... s-of-wine/

Specially the comment at the end of the article

"much of Australia is just too hot for viticulture, period - like trying to grow oranges or lemons in North Carolina - feasible but not recommended."

Is the proof of it. How are we gonna make them realize that Australia has so much cool climate areas avaliable for viticulture and makes great cool climate wines.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:55 am

Yeah but people in glasshouses....

Most aussies would have said the same sort of thing about bdx blends and syrah in NZ not even 5 years ago. Too cold, green, stalky bla bla whine whine

marsalla · Post by **marsalla** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:50 am

Well, technically he is correct, 99% of queensland, WA, NT is too hot.

But he is a bit of a nob.

cheers

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:55 am

I just didn't realise all the Australian shiraz (which obviously can all be generalised, sorry generalized) I'd been drinking were this bad :lol:

Dear me, I'm very uncouth.

DaveB · Post by **DaveB** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:56 am

Craig(NZ) wrote:Yeah but people in glasshouses....

Most aussies would have said the same sort of thing about bdx blends and syrah in NZ not even 5 years ago. Too cold, green, stalky bla bla whine whine

More hang time, must concentration and more manipulation in the cellar is a beautiful thing huh?

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am

More hang time, must concentration and more manipulation in the cellar is a beautiful thing huh?

better understanding of importance of site, better viticultural practices would be the mainstream reasons.

DaveB · Post by **DaveB** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:08 pm

Craig(NZ) wrote:
More hang time, must concentration and more manipulation in the cellar is a beautiful thing huh?

better understanding of importance of site, better viticultural practices would be the mainstream reasons.

Better viti practises for sure but when you are making wine out of frozen peas something is being done in the winery too.

I wonder if the American bloke has ever been to an Australian wine region?

Loztralia · Post by **Loztralia** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:17 pm

DaveB wrote:I wonder if the American bloke has ever been to an Australian wine region?

No, but he's tried three different Mollydookers and a Torbreck. WTF else do you want him to do? :wink:

Michael McNally · Post by **Michael McNally** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:23 pm

ufo

"Another example of how narrow and fix minded americans are"

I find the title of this post offensive. Many Americans are broad-minded about many issues including wine - some of them post here. I have no idea what fix minded is. You are using the opinions of one person to provide an example of how narrow-minded an entire nation is? Enough with the generalising and stereotyping please!

Cheers

Michael

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:04 pm

Better viti practises for sure but when you are making wine out of frozen peas something is being done in the winery too.

I wonder if the American bloke has ever been to an Australian wine region?

yeah very funny and a little far fetched to even be considered a wind up.

things are done in the winery in all places to maximise what they have and yes you are right there are processes you can adopt to minimise any unripe characters.

im sure many aussie wineries arent too shy about tipping some tartaric into the vat to rescue a 'flabby pot of jam'??

tpang · Post by **tpang** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:06 pm

While the overall feel of Tom Ciocco's article is rather disparaging to Australian wine, he seemed more receptive and willing to engage in further discussion as long as the issue in question was well-argued and expressed in a moderate tone.

I gleaned this by skimming through the 47 posts under the comments section (I didn't read every single reply as I found some too long and tedious).

But we can't really criticize his knowledge of Australian wine and his opinion without knowing exactly how many Australian wines he's tried beyond what he's put up on his site. He might have had a lot more than just Mollydookers and Torbrecks.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:28 pm

fair enough to show some national pride but as i said people in glasshouses. from my experience many aussies are some of the most blinkered wine drinkers in the world. many have cellars with 95%+ aussie reds

as such their opinions re american wines would be even less sensicle than this guys opinion on australian wines

one may say he "only drinks mollydooker and torbreck" but just how many oregon pinot noirs have you drunk as an australian??

orpheus · Post by **orpheus** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:30 pm

Michael McNally wrote:ufo

"Another example of how narrow and fix minded americans are"

I find the title of this post offensive. Many Americans are broad-minded about many issues including wine - some of them post here. I have no idea what fix minded is. You are using the opinions of one person to provide an example of how narrow-minded an entire nation is? Enough with the generalising and stereotyping please!

Cheers

Michael

I agree with you completely, Michael, a bit rich to complain about stereotyping Australian wines while stereotyping Americans!

ufo · Post by **ufo** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:31 pm

Michael McNally wrote:ufo

"Another example of how narrow and fix minded americans are"

I find the title of this post offensive. Many Americans are broad-minded about many issues including wine - some of them post here. I have no idea what fix minded is. You are using the opinions of one person to provide an example of how narrow-minded an entire nation is? Enough with the generalising and stereotyping please!

Cheers

Michael

You' ve got a point here. But I got so angry when I read the article, didn't even think a split second. Probably the title should read " Another example of how narrow and fix minded some American wine drinkers are"

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:09 pm

ufo wrote

Michael McNally wrote:
ufo

"Another example of how narrow and fix minded americans are"

I find the title of this post offensive. Many Americans are broad-minded about many issues including wine - some of them post here. I have no idea what fix minded is. You are using the opinions of one person to provide an example of how narrow-minded an entire nation is? Enough with the generalising and stereotyping please!

Cheers

Michael

You' ve got a point here. But I got so angry when I read the article, didn't even think a split second. Probably the title should read " Another example of how narrow and fix minded some American wine drinkers are"

Yep, just add the word "some". I'd just say "some overseas", but perhaps you could even say just say some. And I've never generalised American wine Craig, can you give me an example of someone doing so on this forum? I've had one bottle of 05 Rydge's Geyserville Zinf blend and found it very enjoyable if expensive (which I believe has to do with our taxation system? See I don't think Australia is perfect). I drank it on another occassion and it was riddled with brett. That's how it goes I believe, bottle variation and all that jazz.

JG · Post by JG » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:54 pm

Craig(NZ) wrote:many aussies are some of the most blinkered wine drinkers in the world. many have cellars with 95%+ aussie reds

I would be one of those.

We're not all on the big bucks. I wish i could afford more cellar worthy imported wines. Imports on the whole have ludicrously poor QPRs. $100 for entry level bordeaux is hard to justify when it is the same cost as flagship marg river etc. Most of the wine in my cellar is around the $30 mark. Most imports I buy are when i am on overseas holidays.

I would love to have more variety, but that will have to wait.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:21 pm

I've had one bottle of 05 Rydge's Geyserville Zinf blend and found it very enjoyable if expensive (which I believe has to do with our taxation system? See I don't think Australia is perfect). I drank it on another occassion and it was riddled with brett. That's how it goes I believe, bottle variation and all that jazz.

yeah im only a little better. probably only had a couple of dozen american reds in my life (At least I know ridge - done geyserville, montebello and the other cab wots it called???). Only half of those cople of doz would be top ones.

im just saying you (i mean the general "you") cant diss an american for offering "narrow" views on aussie wine. visa versa we are the same. and i note (I think its true - australians are some of the worst in the visa versa game)

To this end I always find it funny when an american will listen to an american writer re aussie wine instead of an aussie

I find it funny when in australia an australian writers opinion on NZ wine is the one listened to and visa versa when it is obvious the native palate has the experience with the native wine

When Parkers NZ write up comes out next month, no doubt it will cause a buying frenzy on the top wines most of which a) NZ writers have been blabbing on about for months upon deaf ears or b) NZ critics know damn well dont deserve the status bestowed

its a funny world we live in where other peoples opinion grieves us so

n4sir · Post by **n4sir** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:52 pm

Craig(NZ) wrote:When Parkers NZ write up comes out next month, no doubt it will cause a buying frenzy on the top wines most of which a) NZ writers have been blabbing on about for months upon deaf ears or b) NZ critics know damn well dont deserve the status bestowed

its a funny world we live in where other peoples opinion grieves us so

Would it be Parker, or would it be Neal Martin or Jay Miller reviewing the NZ wines? I didn't think Parker was reviewing southern hemisphere wines anymore for WA (with a couple of very notable exceptions).

Cheers,
Ian

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:55 pm

Would it be Parker, or would it be Neal Martin or Jay Miller reviewing the NZ wines? I didn't think Parker was reviewing southern hemisphere wines anymore for WA (with a couple of very notable exceptions).

Neil Martin, sorry lazy sentance on my part

Loztralia · Post by **Loztralia** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:15 pm

Craig(NZ) wrote:one may say he "only drinks mollydooker and torbreck" but just how many oregon pinot noirs have you drunk as an australian??

I guess I'll respond to that as it was me that made the comment you refer to:
1) I was joking. Thus the :wink:

I read the guy's responses on his blog and when he says he's tried hundreds of Aussie wines I have no reason to doubt him.
2) My US wine awareness is minimal, though it will be better after I've been to the Napa next month.
3) I haven't drunk any Oregon Pinot Noirs as an Australian as I am not an Australian.
4) I freely admit my ignorance of most wine outside the antipodes. That said, I don't make blog posts saying stuff like "yuck, another bottle of sweet German Riesling - the country's too wet for viticulture and most of their wines are horrible".

I think the problem isn't that the blogger is ignorant but that any awareness he has of the subtleties of Australian wine will be lost on any of his readership that don't share that awareness. When you say stuff like "Australia has no sense of terroir" and claim you've tried hundreds of Aussie wines, but don't even give a nod to, say, Hunter Shiraz then you are inevitably going to be read as hammering away on the same old - incorrect - point.

DaveB · Post by **DaveB** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:08 pm

Craig(NZ) wrote:
Better viti practises for sure but when you are making wine out of frozen peas something is being done in the winery too.

I wonder if the American bloke has ever been to an Australian wine region?

yeah very funny and a little far fetched to even be considered a wind up.

things are done in the winery in all places to maximise what they have and yes you are right there are processes you can adopt to minimise any unripe characters.

im sure many aussie wineries arent too shy about tipping some tartaric into the vat to rescue a 'flabby pot of jam'??

No harm intended Craig....just putting the brakes on your diatribe...don't believe everything that comes in press releases mate

DaveB · Post by **DaveB** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:15 pm

We don't really get much access to U.S. stuff here but there are some great wines.....and there is a lot of muck. Where are his posts on gloopy Napa Cabernets and Parkerised Zin's not to mention Mega Purple, GM yeasts and their new 4.8 million hectare AVA....hmmmm?

Michael McNally · Post by **Michael McNally** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:56 pm

Craig(NZ) wrote:from my experience many aussies are some of the most blinkered wine drinkers in the world. many have cellars with 95%+ aussie reds

G'day Craig

I do appreciate that you have qualified the statement (which is unusual/nice) by saying "from my experience" and "many" instead of "most" or just "aussies", which means every single one of us. I genuinely applaud the qualification to your generalisation..... but

How many Aussies do you know Craig. 25? 50? 100? 200?
That's a pretty small sample.

How many of their cellars do you know the contents of? Smaller sample again I am guessing.

Now we have people in glass houses, throwing stones at the people in glass houses throwing stones at glass houses.

Craig(NZ) wrote:just how many oregon pinot noirs have you drunk as an australian??

They have pinot noir in Oregon?!?!? :shock:

Seven · Post by **Seven** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:59 pm

They have pinot noir in Oregon?!?!?

is this a joke or a serious question? :?:

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:19 am

DaveB wrote:We don't really get much access to U.S. stuff here but there are some great wines.....and there is a lot of muck. Where are his posts on gloopy Napa Cabernets and Parkerised Zin's not to mention Mega Purple, GM yeasts and their new 4.8 million hectare AVA....hmmmm?

Spot on mate.

Speaking as an Aussie who now also carries a US passport its getting just a little bit silly to hear all these worldy wise American wineos look down their nose at Australia wine when the local product can be far less appealing - especially at the same price point. It does not take a whole lot of wine tasting to realise that most wine producing countries make everything from dross to excellent wines. Fortunately it seems as though Mr Ciocco has moved on from writing about wine to actually buying the stuff to sell so he'll pretty soon get an idea if his palate has any staying power.

Mike

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:06 am

How many Aussies do you know Craig. 25? 50? 100? 200?
That's a pretty small sample.

I know enough/ crossed paths with enough over the last decade to make a qualified generalisation whether off this forum or others past and present, workmates in aussie, family in aussie

It is a generalisation. I do know a good handful who are very open to wines offshore - at least as much as I am

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:18 am

Craig wrote

yeah im only a little better. probably only had a couple of dozen american reds in my life (At least I know ridge...

At least you can spell Ridge, unlike me :oops:

Michael McNally · Post by **Michael McNally** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:11 am

Seven wrote:
They have pinot noir in Oregon?!?!?

is this a joke or a serious question?

Joke

Dave Dewhurst · Post by **Dave Dewhurst** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:54 am

JG wrote:Imports on the whole have ludicrously poor QPRs. $100 for entry level bordeaux is hard to justify

On some levels this is a fair point but there's actually quite a bit of decent Bordeaux floating about at the $30 mark - not classified growths of course but still some very good wine, especially if you try a few of those from 2005 that are currently knocking around. Spain has some good options at the lower end of the market too.

Cheers

Dave

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:50 am

On some levels this is a fair point but there's actually quite a bit of decent Bordeaux floating about at the $30 mark - not classified growths of course but still some very good wine, especially if you try a few of those from 2005 that are currently knocking around. Spain has some good options at the lower end of the market too.

yeah agree. if you are having to pay $100 for a good entry level bordeaux you are shopping in the wrong place