Screwcap ball parks

AndrewS · Post by **AndrewS** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:28 pm

Hi all,

Im in the process of refactoring my cellar due to changing tastes.

A lot of the low end wines I used to buy are now in screwcaps. I was wondering whether screwcaps have changed peoples cellaring habits. With cork, I used to work on a ballpark of 6 years from vintage for quaffers and 10 years for premium.

I havent cellared enough screwcaps to form an opinion whether to change this. What are peoples experience with screwcaps?

Thanks in advance,
Andrew.

Attila · Post by **Attila** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:28 pm

They'll cellar longer (about 3 years) and do NOT lay the bottles down.

Wayno · Post by **Wayno** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:45 pm

Atilla,
I'm curious as to why you're so certain that screwcapped bottles shouldn't be put down on their sides. Whilst I have a lot of my screwcaps upright, purely because it suits my cellar, space-wise, I can't really see any disadvantage in doing either. What's the rationale?

And where does 3 years come from?

Attila · Post by **Attila** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:24 pm

I had a conversation with a high quality biodynamic producer who would only use cork. He said that the stelvin metal and it's coating isn't a natural surface and because it won't dry out it should not be in contact with wine on the long term because over time it can influence the taste of wine one way or another. I like this argument.
Just to be safe, ALL my stelvin bottles in my cellar are standing.

Ps: The 3 years come from oxidative ageing (cork) that matures the wine sooner than the airtight stelvin. I've tasted some stelvin vs cork wines of the same vintage in the past and the ensuing discussion concluded the 3 years probability that I agree with.

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:11 pm

Attila wrote:I had a conversation with a high quality biodynamic producer who would only use cork. He said that the stelvin metal and it's coating isn't a natural surface and because it won't dry out it should not be in contact with wine on the long term because over time it can influence the taste of wine one way or another. I like this argument.
Just to be safe, ALL my stelvin bottles in my cellar are standing.

This is absolute bullshit. They have an inert lining. The nutty journo who started all that no longer has a job either... it's not going to influence the taste even a millionth of the extent to which cork will - mould, tca, cork wood flavours - all so lovely and natural.
GW

monghead · Post by **monghead** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:55 pm

Well, this is good news, as all my screwcaps are stored flat as the other wines are, and to go to the cellar and re-organise everything to flat and standing will take all weekend! What do others do?...

Cheers,

monghead.

rens · Post by **rens** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:45 pm

Mine are all lying on their sides. I don't buy the contamination theory. The inside of all my screw caps, even the 5 year old ones are fine. There is no noticable difference between them and current vintage screw caps. The wines taste fine to me. I haven't had one yet that was corked, oxidised or with a 'funny taste'. Viva screwcaps.

Muscat Mike · Post by **Muscat Mike** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:37 pm

[/quote]

This is absolute bullshit. They have an inert lining. The nutty journo who started all that no longer has a job either... it's not going to influence the taste even a millionth of the extent to which cork will - mould, tca, cork wood flavours - all so lovely and natural.
GW[/quote]

As GW will attest to, he and I do not often agree. This time I give my utmost support.
Attilla the bottom of the cork does not dry out either so what do you make of that and why should the inert lining of the Stelvin be dry??????

Mike.

AndrewS · Post by **AndrewS** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:01 pm

Attila wrote:They'll cellar longer (about 3 years) and do NOT lay the bottles down.

Thanks Attila.

Cheers
Andrew.

PS. I have some standing up and some lying down, just to be sure :twisted:

Daryl Douglas · Post by **Daryl Douglas** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:25 pm

So long as the air-space beneath the screwcap remains sufficiently hydrated to ensure the seal doesn't shrink, perhaps even deteriorate to the extent that if laid on it's side after some years of being stored upright, it wouldn't leak.......early days still?

It's not the seal, it's the wine, unless it smells and tastes like a wet dog or fermenting cardboard.

daz

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:53 am

Gary W wrote:This is absolute bullshit. They have an inert lining. The nutty journo who started all that no longer has a job either... it's not going to influence the taste even a millionth of the extent to which cork will - mould, tca, cork wood flavours - all so lovely and natural.
GW

Gary beat me to it!
I'm curious to know what the 'biodynamic winemaker' thinks about glass bottles. Ghastly manufactured things they are...

Of course, it's not about whether something is 'natural' or not. What's important is whether it's inert. Which glass is. And, to the best of our current knowledge, so are the liners supplied with modern screwcaps.
cheers,
Graeme

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:28 am

This is a very interesting topic for me personally. Having said that, I don't know nothin', don't have any opinion to offer, and all my "cellar bottles" are offsite in Melbourne, so, other than inquire into how they are being stored (which seems a redundant idea as I'm too lazy and lack the funds to change storage locations) it's all out of my hands anyway. And whilst I would listen to their answer & opinion, I still wouldn't trust it 100%.
As an optomist, at least for today, I will believe screwcaps to be inert

And why am I posting (some may be asking)? Because monghead asked

What do others do?...

Roscoe · Post by **Roscoe** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:22 pm

Attila wrote:Ps: The 3 years come from oxidative ageing (cork) that matures the wine sooner than the airtight stelvin.

My understanding is that stelvins are not airtight- I think research shows there is oxygen transfer occurring across stelvin seals, but at a fairly consistent (low) level, similar to the best sealing corks.

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:29 pm

Roscoe wrote:
Attila wrote:Ps: The 3 years come from oxidative ageing (cork) that matures the wine sooner than the airtight stelvin.

My understanding is that stelvins are not airtight- I think research shows there is oxygen transfer occurring across stelvin seals, but at a fairly consistent (low) level, similar to the best sealing corks.

That was my understanding too. i also believe it is possible to order seals with different permeabilities.

ufo · Post by **ufo** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:40 pm

Wizz wrote:
Roscoe wrote:
Attila wrote:Ps: The 3 years come from oxidative ageing (cork) that matures the wine sooner than the airtight stelvin.

My understanding is that stelvins are not airtight- I think research shows there is oxygen transfer occurring across stelvin seals, but at a fairly consistent (low) level, similar to the best sealing corks.

That was my understanding too. i also believe it is possible to order seals with different permeabilities.

That's 100 % correct, you can order order seals with different permeabilities.

cuttlefish · Post by **cuttlefish** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:10 pm

Well now there was a Pewsey Vale riesling bottled under screwcap in the mid-seventies, wasn't there ? So why doesn't someone ring them and ask them if they had the bottles standing up or lying down in the winery. I think I know what the answer will be, but better to hear it from them...

kwine · Post by **kwine** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:03 pm

did the high quality biodynamic winemaker also refrain from using sulphur dioxide in his wine so it can be compleatly organic and preservative free ?
He is off the planet with his thoughts on screwcap standing up !
I seem to meet another screwball every day !
If you are unconvinced of the absolute advantage of screwcap over the inferior closure cork , try a bottle of 1998 Richmond grove watervale riesling !

there is no longer any comparrison

screwcap wins , especially when you lay it down for 10 years !

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:56 am

cuttlefish wrote:Well now there was a Pewsey Vale riesling bottled under screwcap in the mid-seventies, wasn't there ? So why doesn't someone ring them and ask them if they had the bottles standing up or lying down in the winery. I think I know what the answer will be, but better to hear it from them...

I can vouch for the quality of the wine emanating from underneath the 1979 Stelvin, and yes, it was a Pewsey Vale Riesling. FABULOUS, and drunk in 2000. One of the most memorable Riesling experiences I've had.

Is there really any question as to the value of this seal?