Gee - just what we needed

[sparky]

Reported in DrinksDaily - would have posted the link, but I'm too new, and might be a spambot. Looks like the flood of cheap NZ Sauvi Blanc won't stop flowing for a while yet..

"A record Sauvignon Blanc grape harvest in New Zealand may cap prices of the wine for as much as three years as recessions slow demand growth in the nation’s key export markets, according to winemaker Villa Maria Estate Ltd.

The crop, New Zealand’s biggest export variety, climbed 5 percent to 177,000 metric tons even after heavy pruning to reduce volumes, New Zealand Winegrowers said today in a statement. Across all varieties, production was unchanged at 285,000 tons, with Pinot Noir down 16 percent to 27,500 tons, the industry group said in an end-of-harvest assessment."

Register your protest, and buy some Aussie Riesling!

[Rawshack]

Reported in DrinksDaily - would have posted the link, but I'm too new, and might be a spambot. Looks like the flood of cheap NZ Sauvi Blanc won't stop flowing for a while yet..

"A record Sauvignon Blanc grape harvest in New Zealand may cap prices of the wine for as much as three years as recessions slow demand growth in the nation’s key export markets, according to winemaker Villa Maria Estate Ltd.

The crop, New Zealand’s biggest export variety, climbed 5 percent to 177,000 metric tons even after heavy pruning to reduce volumes, New Zealand Winegrowers said today in a statement. Across all varieties, production was unchanged at 285,000 tons, with Pinot Noir down 16 percent to 27,500 tons, the industry group said in an end-of-harvest assessment."

Register your protest, and buy some Aussie Riesling!

I don't have any issue with the variety per se, only that it's a victim of fashion. A lot of producers who have been frantically culling other crops to put it in will soon be doing the same when it's popularity wanes -which it inevitably will.

If I were a producer of Riesling I'd be scratching my head at what else I needed to do to shift an affordable, well made and age-worthy wine. Price, quality and oft-heard cries from wine writers don't seem to be working, so god only knows what will.

[jeremy]

Yep, I reckon that's spot on as far as I'm concerned Rawshack. Drink whatever the hell you want, don't be dictated to by critics, experts, OR FASHION. Of course fashion has an influence on all of us, that's part of being human. But I prefer my wine choice to be influenced by other drinker's TNs rather than "fashion" per se.

[Dave Dewhurst]

If I were a producer of Riesling I'd be scratching my head at what else I needed to do to shift an affordable, well made and age-worthy wine. Price, quality and oft-heard cries from wine writers don't seem to be working, so god only knows what will.

Could not agree more. World class wines here at a pittance!

Cheers

Dave

[Daryl Douglas]

If I were a producer of Riesling I'd be scratching my head at what else I needed to do to shift an affordable, well made and age-worthy wine. Price, quality and oft-heard cries from wine writers don't seem to be working, so god only knows what will.

It's simply the market. The average consumer's palate seems to look for more fruit character than many Aussie rieslings have. Perhaps if more off-dry riesling was produced and marketed effectively, the variety could gain a higher profile. One of the reasons I've generally enjoyed Tahbilk riesling, whilst it's dry, is that it isn't as dry as a just-bottled Hunter semillon or Polish Hill River riesling, there's usually just generous varietal fruit.

Cheers

daz

[RedVelvet]

If I were a producer of Riesling I'd be scratching my head at what else I needed to do to shift an affordable, well made and age-worthy wine. Price, quality and oft-heard cries from wine writers don't seem to be working, so god only knows what will.

It's simply the market. The average consumer's palate seems to look for more fruit character than many Aussie rieslings have. Perhaps if more off-dry riesling was produced and marketed effectively, the variety could gain a higher profile. One of the reasons I've generally enjoyed Tahbilk riesling, whilst it's dry, is that it isn't as dry as a just-bottled Hunter semillon or Polish Hill River riesling, there's usually just generous varietal fruit.

Cheers

daz

I thoroughly enjoy my Rieslings from aged German to Polish Hill, Watervale and Margaret River but to name a few however am yet to try the Tahbilk. I will have to make a mental note and source some to taste.

[Craig(NZ)]

Sparky

As I have said before Sauvignon Blanc is the in tipple for hot young women. Visit any trendy bar on a friday night and observe. Wither Hills, Matua and friends. Make more of it I say. Sell more of it. Your thinking is way way too blinkered.

C

[jeremy]

Daz wrote

Rawshack wrote:
If I were a producer of Riesling I'd be scratching my head at what else I needed to do to shift an affordable, well made and age-worthy wine. Price, quality and oft-heard cries from wine writers don't seem to be working, so god only knows what will.


It's simply the market. The average consumer's palate seems to look for more fruit character than many Aussie rieslings have. Perhaps if more off-dry riesling was produced and marketed effectively, the variety could gain a higher profile. One of the reasons I've generally enjoyed Tahbilk riesling, whilst it's dry, is that it isn't as dry as a just-bottled Hunter semillon or Polish Hill River riesling, there's usually just generous varietal fruit.

Cheers

daz

Had my girlfriend around for dinner last night and she is a savvy girl (groan, what an awful pun!) but she decided, after having to put up with me raving at what I do perceive as a significantly fashion driven sav blanc craze for months now, to bring a Verdehlo. Now she enjoyed it for its fruit character so why is Verdehlo so unpopular when Sav Blanc is so popular? I'm sure you could pick holes in this Daz, but hopefully you can see where I coming from

[Bick]

... so why is Verdehlo so unpopular when Sav Blanc is so popular?

Probably due to availability of sav as an established variety in the market. Sauv grows quite easily and is in an ideal climate in Marlborough. Its relatively cheap to make too. Verdehlo needs a warmer climate, is only grown sparsely and probably costs more to make - in NZ its hardly grown at all, in fact - a bit up in Auckland where its warmer. I expect availability drives popularity with many wine varieties, and its too much of a risk for most producers to stray from established white varieties.

[Craig(NZ)]

so why is Verdehlo so unpopular when Sav Blanc is so popular?

I reckon it could have something to do with verdehlo tasting like sh*t and being one of the most boring beverages ever inflicted on man

[jeremy]

Bick wrote

jeremy wrote:
... so why is Verdehlo so unpopular when Sav Blanc is so popular?

Probably due to availability of sav as an established variety in the market. Sauv grows quite easily and is in an ideal climate in Marlborough. Its relatively cheap to make too. Verdehlo needs a warmer climate, is only grown sparsely and probably costs more to make - in NZ its hardly grown at all, in fact - a bit up in Auckland where its warmer. I expect availability drives popularity with many wine varieties, and its too much of a risk for most producers to stray from established white varieties.

It's an interesting one that. All the people I listen too in wine think of verdehlo as warm climate grape, yet Qld Granite Belt is often referred to as growing as good if not better verdehlo than anywhere else in Oz. I wouldn't know a good verdehlo if it slapped me in the face. Only time I touch it is when I eatin somethin with chillies in it

[jeremy]

Craig wrote

Quote:
so why is Verdehlo so unpopular when Sav Blanc is so popular?


I reckon it could have something to do with verdehlo tasting like sh*t and being one of the most boring beverages ever inflicted on man

Well, I've now been on this forum long enough to know you are a parochial shit stirrer and sometimes feeling the need to be one of those myself, that's cool. I personally find most Sav Blanc and Verdehlo equally "sh*t boring". So there you go...

Other peopole have different mouths and noses to me, so I think it best to let them judge rather than presume you even know that what u are tasting is what they are tasting. Existence, humanity, subjectivity, taste etc is pretty f***ing complex

[ChrisV]

I reckon it could have something to do with verdehlo tasting like sh*t and being one of the most boring beverages ever inflicted on man

Haha

Have to agree there... while I'm no fan of Sav Blanc myself I can at least see what it brings to the table for other people.

Edit: Mind you the current Pinot Gris/Grigio craze is utterly mysterious to me. It's in the dictionary under "boring".

[Craig(NZ)]

I personally find most Sav Blanc and Verdehlo equally "sh*t boring". So there you go...

agree for 95%+ of them but try the te mata cape crest before writing them all off. A good one has attractions on a hot summers day with a good salad or some fish

Edit: Mind you the current Pinot Gris/Grigio craze is utterly mysterious to me. It's in the dictionary under "boring".

Agree for 99% of them

[Budgie]

I personally find most Sav Blanc and Verdehlo equally "sh*t boring". So there you go...

agree for 95%+ of them but try the te mata cape crest before writing them all off. A good one has attractions on a hot summers day with a good salad or some fish

I would add to that the Pike & Joyce, surprisingly interesting.

[jeremy]

Yep, there is a few i like and I'd like to taste the Te Mata for sure (it was on tasting last night in Brissy but I had other matters to attend to). If it's interesting in a textural sense, or has some barrell (10x I think) or lees (with lees I'm thinkin' Teusner Woodside, Adelaide Hills grapes). Looking forward to Arete wines take on it too. Sounded real interesting as Dave was tweeting the process as it happened. Maybe very funky and enjoyable.

Grigio is for Italian food, it's meant to be boring and unobtrusive, it's a side dish and a lubricant

Oh, and edit: I'll keep an eye for the Pike & Joyce to Budgie cheers.

[richardb]

Morning All,
long time follower, first time poster. A caveat, im the winemaker of Arete...
Whilst Savy isnt my first choice for a drink (make mine Riesling, Hunter Sem or good Chardy...mmmm chablis.... any day) i think that savy is a good candidate for funking up. My take is that savy is a bit of a victim of fashion, sure theres demand for the fruity styles, but theres an enormous lake of mediocre out there...

For me, as a tiny producer, im not following convention and doing something totally out there, basket pressed fruit, oxidativly handled juice, wierd assed yeast (innoculated and natural) and the whole lot was barrel fermented (yes all 10 barrels!). The wine is still on lees, in some cases on a lot of lees (scary!). My view is that i want to make a bit of a statement, why follow fashion...ultimatly the market will decide. If i fail spectacularly and everyone hates it, well i will be a little broke, but not thirsty!

For interesting Savy tho, im loving Dog Point Section 94 from NZ and Domaine Vacheron from Sancerre, textural, funky, savory....just how i want my wine to be when it grows up...

[pstarr]

Every so often, I really like an intense and crunchy NZ SB. Enjoyed a Vavasour offering recently, but also like the Cape Crest style.

I'd not be dismissive of verdelho though. There are some good examples coming out of the Hunter (such as some Tulloch vintages) and I enjoy the way the citrus and tropical fruit spectrum of verdelho can present differently to sav blanc (especially how you can get more of a pineapple character). Not to mention verdelho blended coming out of Spain.

[sparky]

I suspect the variation that often comes with Verdelho can be a touch challenging for punters who are just at the early stages of their wine discovery journey. Some are taut and terrific, some are flabby old slappers. As a hugely gross generalisation, commercial Sauv Blanc is just a bit more predictable.

Plus 'Sav Blonk' is much easier to say without embarrasing yourself in front of the spunky barman - just what do you do with the 'h'??

Exactly the same fate with that other 'V' wine, just worse...

[jeremy]

Sparky wrote

I suspect the variation that often comes with Verdelho can be a touch challenging for punters who are just at the early stages of their wine discovery journey. Some are taut and terrific, some are flabby old slappers. As a hugely gross generalisation, commercial Sauv Blanc is just a bit more predictable.

Plus 'Sav Blonk' is much easier to say without embarrasing yourself in front of the spunky barman - just what do you do with the 'h'??

Exactly the same fate with that other 'V' wine, just worse...

Nice points thanks Sparky.

And Richard, I've tried a previous vintage of Dog Point, one of the ones I've personally had time for. Thanks for the extra info. You know I'll be grabbin' me one, along with some reds of course

[Daryl Douglas]

I suspect the variation that often comes with Verdelho can be a touch challenging for punters who are just at the early stages of their wine discovery journey. Some are taut and terrific, some are flabby old slappers. As a hugely gross generalisation, commercial Sauv Blanc is just a bit more predictable.

Plus 'Sav Blonk' is much easier to say without embarrasing yourself in front of the spunky barman - just what do you do with the 'h'??

Exactly the same fate with that other 'V' wine, just worse...

Add the 'o' after the aitch. Some may reckon it's verdell-ho, ho, ho! But I don't mind a good one occasionally for a change, really enjoyed it's difference when I first tried the Moondah Brook version some years ago.

Cheers

daz

[jeremy]

Moondah Brook version

- that's the one my savvy girlfriend brought over, 2008. Synchronicity or just not many Verdelhos?

[cuttlefish]

I'd not be dismissive of verdelho though. There are some good examples coming out of the Hunter (such as some Tulloch vintages) and I enjoy the way the citrus and tropical fruit spectrum of verdelho can present differently to sav blanc (especially how you can get more of a pineapple character). Not to mention verdelho blended coming out of Spain.

I'd like to chip in here. I've been fortunate enough to taste a couple of fantastic aged Verdelho's which were wonderful. One from Hunter Valley, and one from Margaret River. The 1989 from Margaret River I tasted last year, and it was F%^ing great. I'm sure not every vintage of verdelho is awesome, but some just are.
Let's also not forget the myriad of top, top-class fortified wines based on Verdelho. I'm sure there is many a treasured solera system around the world full of verdelho juice.

[Daryl Douglas]

I'd not be dismissive of verdelho though. There are some good examples coming out of the Hunter (such as some Tulloch vintages) and I enjoy the way the citrus and tropical fruit spectrum of verdelho can present differently to sav blanc (especially how you can get more of a pineapple character). Not to mention verdelho blended coming out of Spain.

I'd like to chip in here. I've been fortunate enough to taste a couple of fantastic aged Verdelho's which were wonderful. One from Hunter Valley, and one from Margaret River. The 1989 from Margaret River I tasted last year, and it was F%^ing great. I'm sure not every vintage of verdelho is awesome, but some just are.
Let's also not forget the myriad of top, top-class fortified wines based on Verdelho. I'm sure there is many a treasured solera system around the world full of verdelho juice.

Too right! It's a much undervalued variety. Talijancich apparently make table wine from it but given the winery's reputation for it's fortifieds (only remember having bought a tokay that was very nice) I wouldn't be surprised if there's some verdelho in casks.

Chenin blanc may also be underrated in Australia but it's a significant component in Houghton White Classic that has a solid reputation for its ageablity. Admittedly I think I've only ever tried one varietal chenin blanc table wine.

Cheers

daz

[jeremy]

Well, I'd forgotten to consider the fortified stuff and I had no idea Verdelho could age. In fact a MW told me last night it couldn't. But I didn't really agree with him on a number of points. Lovely chap though. Thanks guys

[Daryl Douglas]

Moondah Brook version

- that's the one my savvy girlfriend brought over, 2008. Synchronicity or just not many Verdelhos?

Your girlfriend may be more savvy than you realise Jeremy. Halliday rated the 2008 94/100, other recent vintages 85-87, reckons the 08 has exceptional varietal definition, gives it only a 4 year drinking window but I like fresh, young/ish whites so may seek out a bottle to try.

There don't seem to be that many varietal verdelhos around. Given its extensive portfolio, it's hardly surprising that Tahbilk has been producing it for some years now but don't think I've ever tried one. The blurb on the website reckons it's their most popular cellar-door-only white.........apparently preferred over their sauv blanc and the rest.

daz

[Julio G]

Just on Pinot Gris... the Germans, Swiss, Austrians and Italians (up north) do make some wonderfully interesting examples... also agree that there is a lot of boring, simple stuff out there.

[orpheus]

If I were a producer of Riesling I'd be scratching my head at what else I needed to do to shift an affordable, well made and age-worthy wine. Price, quality and oft-heard cries from wine writers don't seem to be working, so god only knows what will.

It's simply the market. The average consumer's palate seems to look for more fruit character than many Aussie rieslings have. Perhaps if more off-dry riesling was produced and marketed effectively, the variety could gain a higher profile. One of the reasons I've generally enjoyed Tahbilk riesling, whilst it's dry, is that it isn't as dry as a just-bottled Hunter semillon or Polish Hill River riesling, there's usually just generous varietal fruit.

Cheers

daz

Could be a factor, and probably also the acidity. However, NZ makes predominantly off-dry riesling and it doesn't ring up a fraction of the sales of sauvignon blanc.

[Bick]

Well, I'd forgotten to consider the fortified stuff and I had no idea Verdelho could age. In fact a MW told me last night it couldn't. But I didn't really agree with him on a number of points. Lovely chap though. Thanks guys

Its the variety used in one type of Madeira wine isn't it? That can age/live 200 years, if you believe Broadbent.

btw I had the Villa Maria single vineyard Verdelho recently (table wine) - super stuff, not boring at all.

[Craig(NZ)]

shoot the person who started talking about verdehlo please