Selling your wine at auction ?

markg · Post by **markg** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:41 am

Just thought I would get some feedback, direction and input from the forum (I have checked with Gavin first about the appropriateness of the post).

Over the past few months, as the economic crisis has deepened, I have noticed a significant reluctance on the part of many of our current and potential vendors to part with their wine at the ever slippery slope of prices being paid at auction.

Many people seem surprised by this and in fact a number of people have commented to me that they have been expecting a flood of wine on the secondary market that hasn't yet materialised. Well the truth is, its mainly low end wines that people want to sell (the number of pallets of self-branded & cleanskin wines I am being offered each week is quite amazing). They are holding on to their high end wines, many hoping for a better price in the near future and others resigned to drink it rather than sell it at a loss.

How do you think this may pan out if the economic crisis worsens ?
How many years before prices get back to a few years ago (i.e.. $150 for a Noon reserve Shiraz) ?
Will we be flooded by top end wines at bargain prices ?
What do you expect to pay for a 1996 Grange these days ?
If you have been thinking of selling your wine recently, what do you think of the prices being paid at auction ?

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:57 am

I drink every wine i buy :lol:

markg · Post by **markg** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:00 pm

On a personal level, I always intended to do just that. However, buying by the dozen (or three - when the mood took me) moons ago and then changing tastes put me in a position where it was prudent to sell off wine that I no longer wanted, even if it hurt to take the loss.

Not to mention a divorce - always good for clearing out the cellar :-)

GRB · Post by **GRB** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:18 pm

I buy and sell a bit at auction, it seems lately that there is less mid to high end Australian wines at auction which seems to be pushing the prices of these up a bit. There is on the other hand still piles of ex Heritage/Wine Orb wines that can be picked up for a song and some of which are drinking very well at the moment.

GB

Partagas · Post by **Partagas** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:42 pm

Hi Mark, I have been buying wines from auction for years now (to the extent where about half of my monthly purchases come from Auction). This month is the first time I have put any for sale and am impressed already at the response of my wines. They were surplus to my needs where I had tried but didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t particularly enjoy other bottles I had but knew they still had good value. I think they are fetching good money and have seen reasonably big prices paid recently for wines on auction especially since the financial crises (Sterling). My theory is the Ã¢â‚¬Å“collectorsÃ¢â‚¬Â or Ã¢â‚¬Å“bargain huntersÃ¢â‚¬Â among us that have not been hit by the crises are snapping up good stock that has not been out there in these numbers before. I really do believe you will see the stock rise soon and as mentioned above, may see the same reaction from unaffected buyers. This of course is my perception of things from a particular auction (I could be wrong).

Another theory is people are holding onto their stock because they know they will not be able to purchase these types of wines for quite a while, especially the way retail prices have been on premium wine. The expensive wines they have are now drinking stock and not so much investment or turnover.

So I really do believe you will see an increase soon in stock, but due to increase in numbers and less luxury expendable income out there prices paid may also go down or remain low for some time.

Hope all goes well either way Mark.

Sam

Brucer · Post by **Brucer** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:55 pm

I sell wine at Auction regularly.
The wine I sell is stuff that I do not want to drink, or stuff that has increased in price to a point where I would rather have the money then drink the wine.
Before sending wine to auction I carefully look at the reserve price I can put on it, and then decide if I will send it.
I have noticed that stuff like Cullen Diana is holding up well. Some stuff is worth about half I paid, and it then becomes a drinkable propersition again. example Mitolo Serpico.
I think we could find that the recession may not be as bad as everyone thinks, and when times get hard, its good to sit and drink an excellent bottle, that was paid for in the good times.
Bruce

dlo · Post by **dlo** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:13 pm

Mark,

From looking at Langton's lately, prices seem to be mostly on the increase, not as your own experience suggests. Estimates, on anything half decent, are still very high and, IMHO, in some cases, massively overpriced, especially the Europeans (Burgundy and Bordeaux from the hyped vintages are now positively obscene). Although, every auction, quite a few lots are passed in, the majority of blue chips seem as expensive as ever. Oddbins seem to be on a similar "we'll set the prices, if you don't mind" kick. I still buy dribs and drabs at relatively good prices most months although I don't trust silent bid systems and Langton's 6.00pm cut-off system means you get smashed in the last few seconds by untold numbers of bidders bidding on so many wine's. Try counterbidding at 5.59 and 50 seconds on 24 lots you just got gazumped on! So just bid really high (like every else might just be doing) and pay hundreds and thousands more in the long run than you'd pay at a live "old fashioned" auction.

Hope things pick up for you sooner than later.

markg · Post by **markg** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:34 pm

Hi David, I was looking at the Aussie wines more or less and comparing the hammer price to the same time last year. Definately lower at Langtons as well, their clearance rates are right down too as well as vendors demanding, currently, unrealistic reserves. (Stuart confirms that in their latest news article published on the site)

dlo · Post by **dlo** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:55 pm

markg wrote:Hi David, I was looking at the Aussie wines more or less and comparing the hammer price to the same time last year. Definately lower at Langtons as well, their clearance rates are right down too as well as vendors demanding, currently, unrealistic reserves. (Stuart confirms that in their latest news article published on the site)

Obviously, I don't pay enough attention to the Aussie stuff, Mark. :oops:

sauce · Post by **sauce** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:16 pm

Good topic I was only pondering it today

Interesting thing is I would have to say I have not had better results than the last few sales at Langtons for medium to high end reds and champagne. Even the exchange has been good.

Also watched in awe at a sale of a St Peters 2002 for $161.

Would agree with the supply statement being lower - still the odd bargain to be had outside the loved vintages.

ross67 · Post by **ross67** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:22 pm

Yes competition/ prices seem down IMO in $20 - $60 range.
Also is there as much stock available??

I seem to be able to get through A-Z much quicker now than what i used to!!

ross

Christo · Post by **Christo** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:44 pm

sauce wrote:Also watched in awe at a sale of a St Peters 2002 for $161.

quality & rarity of this wine will make it keep going up over $200+, same as the clonakilla 07' very, very limited.

Agree though that the burgs & BDX are very exxy at auction.

c

markg · Post by **markg** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:05 am

Its quite weird, although vendors are shy about selling stock at the moment, those that are selling, whilst they cannot get firm, good reserves, are finding that the bidding is pushing up the price way beyond the reserve because there is little competition. But only on certain wines and vintages, where quantity available is (and has been) limited such as the 02 St peters.