wine cliches: the favourite and hated

Scanlon · Post by **Scanlon** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:18 pm

For me - it's time to give the phrase 'punches above its weight' a rest.

definitely suffering from overexposure.

malliemcg · Post by **malliemcg** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:26 pm

anything but Chardonnay

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:30 pm

Scanlon says

For me - it's time to give the phrase 'punches above its weight' a rest

Ouch!!! I used that one this week

Hate "finish like a peacock's tail" meself

cheers

jeremy

ps- struggling to find the appropriate usage of the descriptor "interesting". Think it has it's place, but also overused (once again I'm a culprit)

ross67 · Post by **ross67** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:44 pm

Probably more descriptors then cliches/phrases:
It all gets very complicated....

dark fruit.....dark red fruit.... rich dark fruit.... red fruit.....round red......smooth fruit......smooth sweet fruit.......ripe fruit......cherry fruit......sour cherry fruit.....rich cherry.........

and so on..........................

ross

Rawshack · Post by **Rawshack** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:55 pm

'Slurpable' - been creeping into more reviews I've been reading recently. User should be publically flogged and forced to drink Yellowtail chardonnay for three years

'Lip smacking' - see above. Ralph Kyte-Powell, you are a repeat offender and you may want to seek legal advice

'ABC'. Fck me with a kipper, it's like being back into the 90's when people say this

'I'll have a Sav Blanc' - try something else, you might like it. Then again you might not. Either way, you're financing an evil Kiwi Terrorist cell and your children are at risk by drinking that filth

'Seamlessly' - Please.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:07 am

ross67 wrote:Probably more descriptors then cliches/phrases:
It all gets very complicated....

dark fruit.....dark red fruit.... rich dark fruit.... red fruit.....round red......smooth fruit......smooth sweet fruit.......ripe fruit......cherry fruit......sour cherry fruit.....rich cherry.........

and so on..........................
ross

I kind of know what you mean, and yet... shopping lists of specific fruits always seem a bit tedious to me. I very much identified with Len Evans when he spoke on this subject in his posthumous memoir. "An old Hunter tastes like an old Hunter" he said, and more or less argued that if you haven't tasted one, no number of words or fruit descriptors will convey the experience. Sometimes, I just figure that 'dark/black fruit' is a shorthand way of saying 'appropriately varietal cabernet flavours', with red berries/spice doing for shiraz and cherries for pinot. A bit simple I know, but an effective shorthand anyway.

The terms I try to avoid (not always successfully) are the ones that lose context withour further elaboration; just saying 'complex' for instance, is almost meaningless without a bit more data.
cheers,
Graeme

Scanlon · Post by **Scanlon** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:01 am

[quote="Rawshack"]

'ABC'. Fck me with a kipper, it's like being back into the 90's when people say this

[quote]

At the risk of sounding naive do you mean this in some sort of wine situation, or as in 'easy as ABC'?

ps great imagery with the kipper :lol:

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:11 am

GraemeG

Inbetween you and Ross here. Think there is a place for both general fruit and specific fruit descriptors dependent on what the wine gives you.

As for the term "complex", overused maybe but no problems with it myself. To me, simply means that there are a lot of different facets to the wine, that is, it is far from a one song wine.

Cheers

jeremy

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:13 am

try something else, you might like it. Then again you might not. Either way, you're financing an evil Kiwi Terrorist cell and your children are at risk by drinking that filth

oh god here we go with the "im too sophisticated to touch sauvignon blanc" twaddle

there's one in every crowd

if i wanna drink yqeum, i will drink yquem no matter what you think of the grape that goes into it

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:18 am

Life is too short to squabble over any one grapes merits other than in jest or light heartedness. Didn't think there was enough in the post to warrant the "im too sophisticated..." remark. OK running for cover now, not looking for a fight, its monday.

ufo · Post by **ufo** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:14 am

Calling Sav. Blanc "Cat's piss"

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:17 pm

Life is too short to squabble over any one grapes merits other than in jest or light heartedness.

i dunno about that, im still reasonably young :lol:

Trolls like the ones you see often about sauvignon blanc just highlight the fact (more often than not) that the poor fool has tried a few labels which they didnt like and moved on. Generalising a bit here but hey, to me it doesnt show sophistication at all it shows ignorance and dismissiveness.

Ive tried more than a few sauvignon blancs i dont like. In fact ive tried truckloads of rubbish (just as ive tried truckloads of rubbish shiraz). However that doesnt mean there a no great ones about in either regard. Ive tried some sensational Sauvignon Blanc over the years which would hold their own in the company of any other white wine variety.

Those that order Sauvignon Blanc at the bar are usually hot females anyway so long may it continue!

winetastic · Post by **winetastic** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:21 pm

ufo wrote:Calling Sav. Blanc "Cat's piss"

I assume this is a suggestion as your favorite cliche?

ufo · Post by **ufo** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:45 pm

winetastic wrote:
ufo wrote:Calling Sav. Blanc "Cat's piss"

I assume this is a suggestion as your favorite cliche?

No, totally the opposite.

Rawshack · Post by **Rawshack** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:51 pm

Craig(NZ) wrote:
try something else, you might like it. Then again you might not. Either way, you're financing an evil Kiwi Terrorist cell and your children are at risk by drinking that filth

oh god here we go with the "im too sophisticated to touch sauvignon blanc" twaddle

there's one in every crowd

if i wanna drink yqeum, i will drink yquem no matter what you think of the grape that goes into it

Craig craig craig. Take a deep breath, it's all OK. I know we may have crossed swords before on this subject, but surely even people from New Zealand can appreciate (admittedly a poor attempt at) humour....

Sorry, I was just fushing.

winetastic · Post by **winetastic** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:59 pm

ufo wrote:
winetastic wrote:
ufo wrote:Calling Sav. Blanc "Cat's piss"

I assume this is a suggestion as your favorite cliche?

No, totally the opposite.

I realised this... should have picked an emoticon with a more ironic expression?

orpheus · Post by **orpheus** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:29 pm

I hate "a very smart wine".

I have found very few that I could have a good conversation with, though they are good listeners, and certainly capable of improving conversation (or at least create the perception of a better conversation).

I have no problem with the "berry fruit" or "dark berry fruit" descriptors; after all, it is very difficult to describe most Australian shiraz or cabernet without them!

Much wisdom in the Len Evans remark.

ufo · Post by **ufo** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:41 pm

winetastic wrote:
ufo wrote:
winetastic wrote:
ufo wrote:Calling Sav. Blanc "Cat's piss"

I assume this is a suggestion as your favorite cliche?

No, totally the opposite.

I realised this... should have picked an emoticon with a more ironic expression?

you should have !

Rawshack · Post by **Rawshack** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:03 pm

orpheus wrote:I hate "a very smart wine".

Good shout - a most annoying phrase.

'Ripper of a wine' is another one.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:53 pm

Craig

Those that order Sauvignon Blanc at the bar are usually hot females anyway so long may it continue!

Best argument for SB of the day

and so true...

I've said it on other forums but I liked the lees action on the Teusner 2008 Woodside SB from the Adelaide Hills. Then again I haven't met a Teusner I didn't get along with.

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:29 pm

orpheus wrote:I hate "a very smart wine".

It also means:
dashingly or impressively neat or trim in appearance, as persons, dress, etc.

socially elegant; sophisticated or fashionable: the smart crowd.

orpheus · Post by **orpheus** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:51 pm

TORB wrote:
orpheus wrote:I hate "a very smart wine".

It also means:
dashingly or impressively neat or trim in appearance, as persons, dress, etc.

socially elegant; sophisticated or fashionable: the smart crowd.

I could not accuse a writer of tasting notes of resorting to a cliche were they to describe a wine in any of these terms.

I would like to taste a "socially elegant" wine, and also a wine that is dashingly neat in appearance.

dkw · Post by **dkw** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:28 pm

...and certainly capable of improving conversation (or at least create the perception of a better conversation). ...

If you'd been the sober judge as I was, hearing an unfortunately very loud drunken 3am to 4am conversation between our neighbours last Friday night, you might agree that 'perception' is the key word...

Mind you, they were drinking beer, not wine.

Dave

Michael McNally · Post by **Michael McNally** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:01 pm

Scanlon wrote:
Rawshack wrote:
'ABC'. Fck me with a kipper, it's like being back into the 90's when people say this

At the risk of sounding naive do you mean this in some sort of wine situation, or as in 'easy as ABC'?

ps great imagery with the kipper

ABC = Anything But Chardonnay. I dislike it too. Good chardy to be had if you look for it.

I'm happier with generic "dark black fruits" then trying to emphasise a particular fruit or fruits for the sake of it. It means the same to me as saying "dark plum, cherry and blackberry".

I think almost anything anyone uses to try to describe the bouquet, flavours and structure rather than the wine overall is fine, though some of the more obtuse ones like "nose of pigeon feathers and kibbled rye" get to me a bit. Redundant phrases like "goes down easy", as well as being grammatically sloppy, do annoy me a tad.

My 3c

Michael

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:12 pm

orpheus wrote:
I could not accuse a writer of tasting notes of resorting to a cliche were they to describe a wine in any of these terms.

I would like to taste a "socially elegant" wine, and also a wine that is dashingly neat in appearance.

"Socially elegant" wines are those consumed by two groups of people.
1. The oh so social set.
2. Wine wankers that reckon they very sophisticated and drinking "the in thing" - low alcohol, low oak, low preservatives, yet highly priced enough so that it does not appeal to the riff raff! :wink:

And if its French, so much the better! :lol:

ufo · Post by **ufo** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:34 am

TORB wrote:
orpheus wrote:
I could not accuse a writer of tasting notes of resorting to a cliche were they to describe a wine in any of these terms.

I would like to taste a "socially elegant" wine, and also a wine that is dashingly neat in appearance.

"Socially elegant" wines are those consumed by two groups of people.
1. The oh so social set.
2. Wine wankers that reckon they very sophisticated and drinking "the in thing" - low alcohol, low oak, low preservatives, yet highly priced enough so that it does not appeal to the riff raff! And if its French, so much the better!

spot on Rick

orpheus · Post by **orpheus** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:17 am

TORB wrote:
orpheus wrote:
I could not accuse a writer of tasting notes of resorting to a cliche were they to describe a wine in any of these terms.

I would like to taste a "socially elegant" wine, and also a wine that is dashingly neat in appearance.

"Socially elegant" wines are those consumed by two groups of people.
1. The oh so social set.
2. Wine wankers that reckon they very sophisticated and drinking "the in thing" - low alcohol, low oak, low preservatives, yet highly priced enough so that it does not appeal to the riff raff! And if its French, so much the better!

But Rick, have you encountered a dashingly neat wine?

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:55 pm

orpheus wrote:But Rick, have you encountered a dashingly neat wine?

Absoludle..... its a wine that does not spill a drop when it is extracted from a barrel via a pipette, and is then transferred to a tasting glass, also without any spillage or leakage.

Extra points are awarded if it spells well too. :wink:

David · Post by **David** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:21 am

What gets on my goat are descriptions of flavours in wine that i am sure no-one has ever tasted. Coal tar comes to mind. '

Could it be that wine writers who use these types of descriptions use them to place themselves far above the ordinary people to whom wine tastes like wine? I can see theses flavours therefore i'm an expert.

orpheus · Post by **orpheus** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:47 am

David wrote:What gets on my goat are descriptions of flavours in wine that i am sure no-one has ever tasted. Coal tar comes to mind. '

Could it be that wine writers who use these types of descriptions use them to place themselves far above the ordinary people to whom wine tastes like wine? I can see theses flavours therefore i'm an expert.

Yes. Sometimes, I think they are talking about what the smell of something would taste like, if that convoluted concept means anything to anybody else. For instance "the taste of a hot bitumen road", which I sometimes sense in a good, honest, McLaren Vale cabernet or shiraz.