G'day
I've come across a restaurant wine list recently that appears to offer some bargains, or at least some questionable offerings. I'll let you decide which falls into either category, and ask the forum for some comments on the quality of the wine, and secondly the price. I am largely unfamiliar with Italian wines, so some of the labels quoted may be incomplete:
Borgogno Barolo 1974 - $105.00
Villa Antinori Marchese Chianti Classico 1995 - $69.00
Villa Antinori Figanello 1996 - $120.00
Villa Antinori Solaia 1996 - $160.00
Gaja Sita Moresco 1991 - $69.00
They also have a range of 1980s Granges between $290 and $460 (1986) per bottle as well as 12 y.o. JR and Michael at $120. Penfolds Bin 28 @ $32.50 a bottle is also pretty good for a fine dining restaurant, and the theory here is that the restaurant has been stockpiling wines in the same way that those of us who cellar wine would do, but maybe they're not turning them over as quickly
Opinions?
Restaurant wine list
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Waiters Friend
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- Location: Perth WA
Restaurant wine list
Wine, women and song. Ideally, you can experience all three at once.
Sorry, don't know about the Italian wines.
As stated - the Grange could be a good option given that you can send the bottle back and get another if its corked.
On the subject of wine lists, a friend sent me this link to an amazing wine list.
http://www.royalmail.com.au/File.axd?id=7d24d899-bb82-4b47-b99d-e84f8cc793ef
As stated - the Grange could be a good option given that you can send the bottle back and get another if its corked.
On the subject of wine lists, a friend sent me this link to an amazing wine list.
http://www.royalmail.com.au/File.axd?id=7d24d899-bb82-4b47-b99d-e84f8cc793ef
Sharkey
I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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bacchaebabe
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:04 pm
- Location: Sydney
Wow! That Royal mail wine list is pretty impressive. Extensive doesn't begin to describe the list. It's now on my list of places to eat before I die. Or preferably, as soon as possible. In fact I might just get in the car right now...
Cheers,
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
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bacchaebabe
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:04 pm
- Location: Sydney
Soeaking of wine lists, I went to the Coopers Arms hotel in newtown last night. We go there occasionally as it's handy and the food's not bad. However last night I really had problems trying to chose a wine from the wine list. We settled on the cheapest wines on the list, a Rothbury Estate shiraz cab and a Semillon Savignon blend from the same winery.
But the point of all this was the price of some of the other wines on the list. Remember this is a pub not a hatted fine diner. $63 for a pepperjack shiraz. $85 for a NV Seppelt Salinger! This is like a 400% mark up. No wonder the restaurant was empty! I won't be rushing back despite the quite good food.
But the point of all this was the price of some of the other wines on the list. Remember this is a pub not a hatted fine diner. $63 for a pepperjack shiraz. $85 for a NV Seppelt Salinger! This is like a 400% mark up. No wonder the restaurant was empty! I won't be rushing back despite the quite good food.
Cheers,
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
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Mahmoud Ali
- Posts: 2954
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Canada
Hey Waiter's Friend,
Those wine prices are very good. I wouldn't be surprised if the '74 Barolo, at $105, is cheaper than retail. Don't know much about the vintage but it is almost 35 years old. Wow!
The '95 Marchese Antinori is supposed to be an excellent wine (I bought a couple of bottles and a recently opened 1980 was delightful) and cost about C$35 on release. Should be a good wine.
The third wine on your list is Antinori's Tignanello, an 80% Sangiovese 20% Cabernet Super Tuscan that started it all. The retail price in Canada for the current vintage is about C$90-$100.
The Solaia is Antinori's Cabernet-based Super Tuscan wine. Although 1996 isn't a top vintage it should be a good wine. The $160 is probably a fair price for the wine. The current vintage of the wine, the 2005, is over $200. So you can draw your own conclusions.
I can't imagine Gaja's Sito Moresco (a nebbiolo wine) being sold anywhere for less money. It's not a great vintage but it's a Gaja, the foremost name in Piedmont.
With these prices you are literally drinking at retail or less. If I was to choose a wine the most interesting experience would be the '74 Barolo and the '91 Gaja. In the budget category is the Bin 28 for $32.
If restaurants had these kind of prices I might actually frequent them. I never go to restaurants for a wine experience here in Canada. The wine is either too expensive or sucks bigtime. All wine is consumed at home or with friends.
Cheers............Mahmoud.
Those wine prices are very good. I wouldn't be surprised if the '74 Barolo, at $105, is cheaper than retail. Don't know much about the vintage but it is almost 35 years old. Wow!
The '95 Marchese Antinori is supposed to be an excellent wine (I bought a couple of bottles and a recently opened 1980 was delightful) and cost about C$35 on release. Should be a good wine.
The third wine on your list is Antinori's Tignanello, an 80% Sangiovese 20% Cabernet Super Tuscan that started it all. The retail price in Canada for the current vintage is about C$90-$100.
The Solaia is Antinori's Cabernet-based Super Tuscan wine. Although 1996 isn't a top vintage it should be a good wine. The $160 is probably a fair price for the wine. The current vintage of the wine, the 2005, is over $200. So you can draw your own conclusions.
I can't imagine Gaja's Sito Moresco (a nebbiolo wine) being sold anywhere for less money. It's not a great vintage but it's a Gaja, the foremost name in Piedmont.
With these prices you are literally drinking at retail or less. If I was to choose a wine the most interesting experience would be the '74 Barolo and the '91 Gaja. In the budget category is the Bin 28 for $32.
If restaurants had these kind of prices I might actually frequent them. I never go to restaurants for a wine experience here in Canada. The wine is either too expensive or sucks bigtime. All wine is consumed at home or with friends.
Cheers............Mahmoud.
Last edited by Mahmoud Ali on Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mahmoud wrote
I agree my friend, just don't understand the tripple times mark up (on rrp) at restaurants. Actually from their point of view I understand why (extra money from those that don't care or don't know) but for people like us who know our wine prices, it is just a turn off. BYO all the way even with corckage.
Sam
If restaurants had these kind of prices I might actually frequent them.
I agree my friend, just don't understand the tripple times mark up (on rrp) at restaurants. Actually from their point of view I understand why (extra money from those that don't care or don't know) but for people like us who know our wine prices, it is just a turn off. BYO all the way even with corckage.
Sam
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Mahmoud Ali
- Posts: 2954
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Canada
Partagas,
BYOs in Australia were an absolute delight. It made the dining experience so much more versatile and rewarding. This was especially true while visiting wine regions. One finds interesting back vintages and cellar door specials and it is such a pleasure to be able to drink them at a local pub or restaurant.
I tip my hat to you guys (and gals) in Australia for your civilized approach to wine drinking.
Cheers..................Mahmoud.
BYOs in Australia were an absolute delight. It made the dining experience so much more versatile and rewarding. This was especially true while visiting wine regions. One finds interesting back vintages and cellar door specials and it is such a pleasure to be able to drink them at a local pub or restaurant.
I tip my hat to you guys (and gals) in Australia for your civilized approach to wine drinking.
Cheers..................Mahmoud.
bacchaebabe wrote:Soeaking of wine lists, I went to the Coopers Arms hotel in newtown last night. We go there occasionally as it's handy and the food's not bad. However last night I really had problems trying to chose a wine from the wine list. We settled on the cheapest wines on the list, a Rothbury Estate shiraz cab and a Semillon Savignon blend from the same winery.
But the point of all this was the price of some of the other wines on the list. Remember this is a pub not a hatted fine diner. $63 for a pepperjack shiraz. $85 for a NV Seppelt Salinger! This is like a 400% mark up. No wonder the restaurant was empty! I won't be rushing back despite the quite good food.
that's just appalling. i would be on beer for a dinner there.
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Waiters Friend
- Posts: 2784
- Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 4:09 am
- Location: Perth WA
Scanlon wrote:bacchaebabe wrote:Soeaking of wine lists, I went to the Coopers Arms hotel in newtown last night. We go there occasionally as it's handy and the food's not bad. However last night I really had problems trying to chose a wine from the wine list. We settled on the cheapest wines on the list, a Rothbury Estate shiraz cab and a Semillon Savignon blend from the same winery.
But the point of all this was the price of some of the other wines on the list. Remember this is a pub not a hatted fine diner. $63 for a pepperjack shiraz. $85 for a NV Seppelt Salinger! This is like a 400% mark up. No wonder the restaurant was empty! I won't be rushing back despite the quite good food.
that's just appalling. i would be on beer for a dinner there.
I agree with Scanlon, Kris. Why would you ever buy a wine there? Even if it was the cheapest on the list. Part of the dining experience is the wining experience that supports it - and if you can't find acceptable prices or BYO, then give it a miss.
As it happens, last night the delightful Sue and I were at a pub in Guildford (I'm not sure how much I am allowed to say on these forums) and they have basic pub food, a 'feel good' beer garden, and wine markups that are about 25% on retail. For example, John Kosovich Chardonnay (the best to be produced from the Swan Valley) at $32 (and we pay $24 at CD). So for Perth forumites, if you want a good casual night out, in relaxed atmosphere, a bit of history (there's a giveaway to those that know) and a drinkable wine list, then the X&X in Guildford gets my vote.
"Thus endeth the crossword puzzle"
Cheers
Allan
Wine, women and song. Ideally, you can experience all three at once.
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Waiters Friend
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- Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 4:09 am
- Location: Perth WA
Oh yes. I haven't mentioned the name of the original restaurant this post refers to, for very good reasons - I am verifying with said establishment that the wines, vintages and prices on their website are not several years out of date, and do not reflect current reality.
If it turns out to be true, then we will return (the delightful Sue and I were there about 2 years ago, but were unaware of the alleged vinous treasures lurking at the edge of a credit card - although we drank Picardy instead, which is not a poor substitute) and sample the produce and the wine list - purely for evaluation purposes and for the benefit of forumites.
"It's a tough job, but someone's got to do it"
Allan
If it turns out to be true, then we will return (the delightful Sue and I were there about 2 years ago, but were unaware of the alleged vinous treasures lurking at the edge of a credit card - although we drank Picardy instead, which is not a poor substitute) and sample the produce and the wine list - purely for evaluation purposes and for the benefit of forumites.
"It's a tough job, but someone's got to do it"
Allan
Wine, women and song. Ideally, you can experience all three at once.
Waiters Friend wrote:Oh yes. I haven't mentioned the name of the original restaurant this post refers to, for very good reasons - I am verifying with said establishment that the wines, vintages and prices on their website are not several years out of date, and do not reflect current reality.
Allan
Wise. I recall dining at Stuyvesant House in Crows Nest years ago. The massive wine list was a vinophile's joy. BUT, it only ever seemed to be your fifth choice that was actually available...
cgeers,
Graeme
hey Alan,
looking at that list i'd say they are about 7-8 years out of date on the website. current vintages of almost all the wines are into the new century, some by four or five years. even moet vintage (which they list as 1993 vintage) is currently 2000. i'm wondering if they are still open, have you had any response from them?
would be great if they served current vintages for the said prices!!
if they are still open and that list is current, i'd probably steer clear of the Italians (not the best of vintages) and get into some of the other well priced goodies.
some real gems in there.
jamie
[/code]
looking at that list i'd say they are about 7-8 years out of date on the website. current vintages of almost all the wines are into the new century, some by four or five years. even moet vintage (which they list as 1993 vintage) is currently 2000. i'm wondering if they are still open, have you had any response from them?
would be great if they served current vintages for the said prices!!
if they are still open and that list is current, i'd probably steer clear of the Italians (not the best of vintages) and get into some of the other well priced goodies.
some real gems in there.
jamie
[/code]
Lets just say I have never had a wine I've hated, but there are some I would rather not taste again....
hey Alan,
looking at that list i'd say they are about 7-8 years out of date on the website. current vintages of almost all the wines are into the new century, some by four or five years. even moet vintage (which they list as 1993 vintage) is currently 2000. i'm wondering if they are still open, have you had any response from them?
would be great if they served current vintages for the said prices!!
if they are still open and that list is current, i'd probably steer clear of the Italians (not the best of vintages) and get into some of the other well priced goodies.
some real gems in there.
jamie
[/code]
looking at that list i'd say they are about 7-8 years out of date on the website. current vintages of almost all the wines are into the new century, some by four or five years. even moet vintage (which they list as 1993 vintage) is currently 2000. i'm wondering if they are still open, have you had any response from them?
would be great if they served current vintages for the said prices!!
if they are still open and that list is current, i'd probably steer clear of the Italians (not the best of vintages) and get into some of the other well priced goodies.
some real gems in there.
jamie
[/code]
Lets just say I have never had a wine I've hated, but there are some I would rather not taste again....
hey Alan,
looking at that list i'd say they are about 7-8 years out of date on the website. current vintages of almost all the wines are into the new century, some by four or five years. even moet vintage (which they list as 1993 vintage) is currently 2000. i'm wondering if they are still open, have you had any response from them?
would be great if they served current vintages for the said prices!!
if they are still open and that list is current, i'd probably steer clear of the Italians (not the best of vintages) and get into some of the other well priced goodies.
some real gems in there.
jamie
[/code]
looking at that list i'd say they are about 7-8 years out of date on the website. current vintages of almost all the wines are into the new century, some by four or five years. even moet vintage (which they list as 1993 vintage) is currently 2000. i'm wondering if they are still open, have you had any response from them?
would be great if they served current vintages for the said prices!!
if they are still open and that list is current, i'd probably steer clear of the Italians (not the best of vintages) and get into some of the other well priced goodies.
some real gems in there.
jamie
[/code]
Lets just say I have never had a wine I've hated, but there are some I would rather not taste again....
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Waiters Friend
- Posts: 2784
- Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 4:09 am
- Location: Perth WA
JamieH wrote:hey Alan,
looking at that list i'd say they are about 7-8 years out of date on the website. current vintages of almost all the wines are into the new century, some by four or five years. even moet vintage (which they list as 1993 vintage) is currently 2000. i'm wondering if they are still open, have you had any response from them?
would be great if they served current vintages for the said prices!!
if they are still open and that list is current, i'd probably steer clear of the Italians (not the best of vintages) and get into some of the other well priced goodies.
some real gems in there.
jamie
[/code]
Hi JamieH
I realise most vintages of most wines are well into the 21st century for most wineries - but not necessarily for some winelists. I suspect this particular establishment buys wine and then cellars for as long as it takes to sell it, and has taken deliberate measures to build up the wine list.
Given the range of 80's Granges, I also suspect they have been doing it for some time. I further suspect the turnover is not large.
Having said that, a) the restaurant has not responded to my email, and b) the copyright label on the website reads 2005, so hopefully at worst it is 4 years out of date.
We're still looking at returning there in about 3 weeks - but I will call into the establishment personally first to check out the state of play. It's not far from where I work.
Regards
Allan
Wine, women and song. Ideally, you can experience all three at once.
Allan,
I reckon the 1974 Barolo is worth a shot. Otherwise, the 1991 Gaja. Don't know anything of the vintages, but worth a shot at those prices. Also, if the '74 over the hill, I'm sure you could pick another, and the restaurant would refund the cost of the wine.
However, if you want something that will knock your socks off, the '86 Grange is certainly the goods. A great price for it too. Go on, you only live once...
Cheers,
Monghead.
I reckon the 1974 Barolo is worth a shot. Otherwise, the 1991 Gaja. Don't know anything of the vintages, but worth a shot at those prices. Also, if the '74 over the hill, I'm sure you could pick another, and the restaurant would refund the cost of the wine.
However, if you want something that will knock your socks off, the '86 Grange is certainly the goods. A great price for it too. Go on, you only live once...
Cheers,
Monghead.