Sparkling shiraz

aj_syrah · Post by **aj_syrah** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:11 am

Just a quick one, have a bottle of Joseph, and am wondering what the best temperature to serve it is, and what type of glass I should drink it out of?

Elvispga · Post by **Elvispga** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:32 am

I posted a similar question years ago. If you use the search function you should be able to find plenty of info on Sparkling Shiraz. See my post;

http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.p ... ght=#12770

I used to drink it out of flutes, however, I now prefer a Shiraz glass as it allows more enjoyment of the nose. That is, if you can make it last without gulping it down too quick.

Cheers
Elvis

griff · Post by **griff** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:35 am

Recently had a 2003 disgorgement and would say that it was quite tannic. Closed on opening and only opened up after a while. Was great after that. Best serve not too cool, perhaps between fridge and cellar temp and I agree with red wine glasses as opposed to flutes.

cheers

Carl

aj_syrah · Post by **aj_syrah** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:04 am

Thanks Elvis & Griff,

I think that I opened it a bit too warm as I lost almost a third of the bottle from spontaneous eruption. I had it in the freezer for 20 minutes, but on reflection an hour or so would have been better. I've put it back in the fridge, and hopefully it can retain the existing CO2 without it to escaping every time I pour.

Thanks for the link Elvis, I did do a search, but couldn't find the information on glass and temperature.

I'm currently trying it with a both a flute and a shiraz glass. The nose from the shiraz glass is superior, but it is losing it's bubbles more quickly - again, this is because I opened it a bit too warm. In the shiraz glass, it almost completely lacks bubbles.

I'll chill it for longer next time, and I think that letting it warm up from cold in a shiraz glass is the best bet.

Cheers,

AJ

griff · Post by **griff** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:07 am

aj_syrah wrote:I think that I opened it a bit too warm as I lost almost a third of the bottle from spontaneous eruption.

The trick is to relax and not think about it too much

cheers

Carl

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:08 am

Oh dear - definitely flutes, unless you're only offering tasting serves to your guests.

It's worth keeping the bubbles in the container, and even with a flute, if the wine is noseworthy, you should get it in spades. And with sparkling red, a touch warmer might work (but only a touch, still cold, without being frozen).

Cheers

Allan

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:10 am

griff wrote:
aj_syrah wrote:I think that I opened it a bit too warm as I lost almost a third of the bottle from spontaneous eruption.

The trick is to relax and not think about it too much

cheers

Carl

Spilt milk? Regardless, fair comment, Carl. Sometimes these things are sent to try us.

Mike Hawkins · Post by **Mike Hawkins** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:18 am

For sparkling shiraz, I use red wine glasses. Typically I have the first glass some 25 minutes after taking the bottle out of the fridge. That seems to be the right time for my palate.

aj_syrah · Post by **aj_syrah** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:18 am

Oh dear - definitely flutes, unless you're only offering tasting serves to your guests.

Why flutes?

aj_syrah · Post by **aj_syrah** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:24 am

For sparkling shiraz, I use red wine glasses. Typically I have the first glass some 25 minutes after taking the bottle out of the fridge. That seems to be the right time for my palate.

Sounds sensible. I might even consider using a white wine glass by way of compromise. But why a flute?

Oh dear - definitely flutes

Seriously, why flutes?

aj_syrah · Post by **aj_syrah** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:38 am

per elvis: I used to drink it out of flutes, however, I now prefer a Shiraz glass as it allows more enjoyment of the nose.

per griff: I agree with red wine glasses as opposed to flutes

per Mike Hawkins: For sparkling shiraz, I use red wine glasses.

Waiter's friend - you are the only person who has recommended flutes over red wine glasses. I assume that your spilt milk comment was some sort of jibe in relation to me opening the bottle too early. I opened it early because of a miscalculation. I thought 20 min in the freezer would be enough. I was wrong and I know that. Your spilt milk comment completely missed the point.

And what is your obsession with flutes?

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:03 am

I'm happy to serve sparkling red in XL5s if flutes are not available. I'm also happy to serve bubbly red in whatever is available, and have served it in full-dish redwine glasses.

However, for me, if you serve it at the right temperature, flutes are 'the go'. It retains the bead of the wine, in fact it accentuates it, while giving the flute a decent swirl (as you would a tasting glass or a Riedel) will release what you need to see on the nose.

If you prefer to serve it in big-bowled glasses, that's up to you. I generally like what I see under the conditions and glassware I have mentioned.

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:27 am

Waiter's friend - you are the only person who has recommended flutes over red wine glasses. I assume that your spilt milk comment was some sort of jibe in relation to me opening the bottle too early. I opened it early because of a miscalculation. I thought 20 min in the freezer would be enough. I was wrong and I know that. Your spilt milk comment completely missed the point.

And what is your obsession with flutes?[/quote]

AJ-Syrah: What can I say? Get over it. I have no opinion over when you opened a bottle, or whether 20, 40 or 60 minutes in a freezer does it for you. I am purely giving you my opinion (which you asked for originally) on how I treat my bubbly reds, and this is partially based on how I used to present bubbly red when working cellar door at a winery (XL5s) as well as what I choose to do now at home. Forget the 'spilt milk' comment - I was talking to Carl and it had nothing to do with whatever happened when you opened the bottle.

I don't give a flying whether a bubbly red is presented in flutes, glasses or whatever. I've developed a preference for flutes based on my personal experience (maybe 15 years with this style), and I am expressing that opinion. If you or others disagree with my preference, then that is your prerogative.

You seem to have taken unintentional umbrage over what happened at your house (opening a bottle early and losing some wine). Sorry, I wasnt there, and I am not commenting on your handling of the wine. Your problem.

You're entitled to your opinion on how to treat sparkling reds. After the feedback you've had from myself and others, feel free to form one. If you don't agree with me, that's OK.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:24 am

AJ, I also use flutes for sparkling reds and whites, I just like the look of the bubbles working in the tall glass. I have several shapes, some quite wide at the top, they give me enough aroma. If it's a good sparkling red I'll drink it out of a vegemite jar if that's all there is, but I like drinking it from flutes. I don't care what other people drink it out of, but most of my friends seem to use flutes too.

It's a long time since I was desperate enough to put a bottle in the freezer, I usually have at least half a dozen each of sparkling reds and whites in the drinks fridge. For champagne I sometimes put the flutes in the freezer for a while to chill, for sparkling reds the unchilled flute quickly lets the wine straight from the fridge get to the right temperature.

Do you hold the bottle upright or at an angle when opening?

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:11 am

I do not use flutes, I have tried and they just don't work. remember, it is shiraz - it needs a bigger bowl for the aromas to develop than a delicate sparkling white.

I also don't like a shiraz glass as the bead just dies in the @rse.

My solution is middle ground, use a white wine glass. XL6 size and shape or similar. I have some Riedel Chianti Classico copies that do the trick nicely.

griff · Post by **griff** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:30 am

Wizz wrote:I do not use flutes, I have tried and they just don't work. remember, it is shiraz - it needs a bigger bowl for the aromas to develop than a delicate sparkling white.

I also don't like a shiraz glass as the bead just dies in the @rse.

My solution is middle ground, use a white wine glass. XL6 size and shape or similar. I have some Riedel Chianti Classico copies that do the trick nicely.

Same here. I like the Luigi Bormiolli C101 DOC grand vini best. Same shape as an ISO XL5 but 410mL as opposed to 215mL. Only have a couple left though so should look for some more.

cheers

Carl

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:11 pm

griff wrote:
Same here. I like the Luigi Bormiolli C101 DOC grand vini best. Same shape as an ISO XL5 but 410mL as opposed to 215mL. Only have a couple left though so should look for some more.

cheers

Carl

Perfect.

dave vino · Post by **dave vino** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:12 pm

I use flutes (Speiglau), find it holds the beads better and concentrates them into a smaller surface area.

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:12 pm

Cool, not cold.

And as big a glass as you can hold. Fill your own glass first is always best. :lol:

Seriously, I prefer a bigger glass for many of the reasons given above. It is shiraz after all and if it is a good drop you want to get enjoyment from the nose as well as the palate and you are only going to get that from a glass of decent generous proportions.

dave vino · Post by **dave vino** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:30 pm

Stupid question then, do you drink a Chardonnay based Sparkling wine/Champagne from a White wine glass?

griff · Post by **griff** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:39 pm

dave vino wrote:Stupid question then, do you drink a Chardonnay based Sparkling wine/Champagne from a White wine glass?

For me it depends on the flute. While I love the Riedels, I don't like the very narrow types. If that is all that is available then I actually prefer an XL5 or similar. Especially for a very big aldehydic style. I realise that I would be in the minority here though

cheers

Carl

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:22 pm

griff wrote:
dave vino wrote:Stupid question then, do you drink a Chardonnay based Sparkling wine/Champagne from a White wine glass?

For me it depends on the flute. While I love the Riedels, I don't like the very narrow types. If that is all that is available then I actually prefer an XL5 or similar. Especially for a very big aldehydic style. I realise that I would be in the minority here though

cheers

Carl

Snap. What he said.

Delicate aperitif styles - flutes. bigger broader styles - something with a bigger bowl. I had the privelege of drinking a Krug MV last week, and drank it from a flute. probably a mistake.

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:41 pm

dave vino wrote:Stupid question then, do you drink a Chardonnay based Sparkling wine/Champagne from a White wine glass?

A completely different style to Australian sparkling reds, and for that matter a completely different style to chardonnay vinified as dry table wine.

White sparklers are far more acidic than sparkling reds and IMO need to be consumed much colder than I would drink a sparkling red. Wine warms far more rapidly in a bigger glass and the acid of a sparkling white becomes quite jarring with warmth, so yes, I drink sparkling white out of a flute.

And that goes for pinot noir based champagne/sparkling whites as well.

DaveL · Post by **DaveL** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:35 pm

Waiters Friend wrote:
griff wrote:
aj_syrah wrote:I think that I opened it a bit too warm as I lost almost a third of the bottle from spontaneous eruption.

The trick is to relax and not think about it too much

cheers

Carl

Spilt milk? Regardless, fair comment, Carl. Sometimes these things are sent to try us.

...no one else just thinks this is a conversation between two adults reflecting on their personal experiences of youthful exuberance and enthusiasm?

I know when I feel an immanent and premature eruption I try to picture Bronwyn Bishop gardening in stockings and suspenders - avoids the spilling of the milk with a high degree of success!

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:13 am

DaveL wrote:
Waiters Friend wrote:
griff wrote:
aj_syrah wrote:I think that I opened it a bit too warm as I lost almost a third of the bottle from spontaneous eruption.

The trick is to relax and not think about it too much

cheers

Carl

Spilt milk? Regardless, fair comment, Carl. Sometimes these things are sent to try us.

...no one else just thinks this is a conversation between two adults reflecting on their personal experiences of youthful exuberance and enthusiasm?

I know when I feel an immanent and premature eruption I try to picture Bronwyn Bishop gardening in stockings and suspenders - avoids the spilling of the milk with a high degree of success!

Bloody hard to stop from spilling blood though with that image in your head I would think :shock:

griff · Post by **griff** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:30 am

DaveL wrote:
Waiters Friend wrote:
griff wrote:
aj_syrah wrote:I think that I opened it a bit too warm as I lost almost a third of the bottle from spontaneous eruption.

The trick is to relax and not think about it too much

cheers

Carl

Spilt milk? Regardless, fair comment, Carl. Sometimes these things are sent to try us.

...no one else just thinks this is a conversation between two adults reflecting on their personal experiences of youthful exuberance and enthusiasm?

I know when I feel an immanent and premature eruption I try to picture Bronwyn Bishop gardening in stockings and suspenders - avoids the spilling of the milk with a high degree of success!

Despite the imagery I'm glad the thought was appreciated

cheers

Carl

pstarr · Post by **pstarr** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:13 pm

FWIW, I always use flutes for sparkling shiraz and other sparkling reds. I like to see the bubbles and the mousse. I guess I also think of these as sparkling wines rather than a different kind of shiraz or whatever, so choose glassware and time of serving them accordingly.

cuttlefish · Post by **cuttlefish** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:51 pm

I'd have thought that you can afford to use flutes for SPARKLING reds, because the bubbles and effervescense help to lift aromas into the air space of the glass, so you're not going to lose aromas.
Sorry to hear you lost a third of a bottle, aj...

Personally, I'd stick with flutes. I'm happy with how they drink out of flutes. I will try one sometime out of some sort of red wine glass, but if they go flat too quickly, that might kill my buzz...

In my experience, serving temperature, and drinking temperature play an important role. I think sparkling shiraz really open up as they warm in the glass, so serve them properly cold, and enjoy as they warm.

I might try the Chianti Classico glasses, since Wizz is a Hawks supporter and so am I.

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:08 pm

If you didnt say :

cuttlefish wrote:
I might try the Chianti Classico glasses, since Wizz is a Hawks supporter and so am I.

I would have flamed you over the flutes :lol:

Expect a sluggish start from the Hawks this year.

cuttlefish · Post by **cuttlefish** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:49 pm

Go Hawks !