I've done and exhaustive serach of thenet, and wcouldn't fond the answer to my question
so how long will it take a red to form a small-moderate amount of sediment
i notced my 03 cab, stored in the kitchen for a few years, had a bit of sediment at the bottom. it stuck as a sludge to the bottom of the glass, and dislodged when i vigorously shook the bottle
cheers
How long does sediment take to form?
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cuttlefish
- Posts: 1014
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:46 pm
- Location: Sunbury
G'day Lordson.
It depends on how the wine was made. Some wine I would think has a small amount of solids right from the start. They generally drop down to the bottom depending on size. Bigger molecules settle first. very small molecules take a lot longer. I have no idea of time limits, and am pretty sure some would stay in solution permanently.
It's kinda like if you threw a handful of dust into the air. Some falls back to earth straight away, but some might get blown on the wind forever.
Maybe if a bottle of wine sat perfectly undisturbed and at a perfectly constant temperature for thousands of years, the liquid would eventually appear like water. This of course could only be achieved with a stelvin closure (kidding).
When wine is made, parts of the process are known as filtering, and fining. These are what governs how much sediment ends up in bottle. Makers who are "non-interventionist" prefer to remove very little from the wine, believing it would remove flavour molecules. There are inherent dangers in not filtering or fining your wine, but a few makers still insist on doing it.
Also, how hard you crush your grapes can have a little to do with it. The harder and longer you crush or press the grapes, the more solid material you'll end up with in your wine.
I think I'll leave it at that. It's a rough answer, but hopefully it leads you in the right direction
It depends on how the wine was made. Some wine I would think has a small amount of solids right from the start. They generally drop down to the bottom depending on size. Bigger molecules settle first. very small molecules take a lot longer. I have no idea of time limits, and am pretty sure some would stay in solution permanently.
It's kinda like if you threw a handful of dust into the air. Some falls back to earth straight away, but some might get blown on the wind forever.
Maybe if a bottle of wine sat perfectly undisturbed and at a perfectly constant temperature for thousands of years, the liquid would eventually appear like water. This of course could only be achieved with a stelvin closure (kidding).
When wine is made, parts of the process are known as filtering, and fining. These are what governs how much sediment ends up in bottle. Makers who are "non-interventionist" prefer to remove very little from the wine, believing it would remove flavour molecules. There are inherent dangers in not filtering or fining your wine, but a few makers still insist on doing it.
Also, how hard you crush your grapes can have a little to do with it. The harder and longer you crush or press the grapes, the more solid material you'll end up with in your wine.
I think I'll leave it at that. It's a rough answer, but hopefully it leads you in the right direction
Smack my [insert grape type here] up !
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Mahmoud Ali
- Posts: 2954
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Canada
Mahmoud Ali wrote:It's important to shake the bottle as you don't want to lose the texture and flavour that the sediment gives to the wine. I go to my cellar once a month to shake the bottles so that the sediment doesn't stick too hard to the side of the bottles.
Cheers.........Mahmoud.
Cheers
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Red Bigot wrote:Mahmoud Ali wrote:It's important to shake the bottle as you don't want to lose the texture and flavour that the sediment gives to the wine. I go to my cellar once a month to shake the bottles so that the sediment doesn't stick too hard to the side of the bottles.
Cheers.........Mahmoud.
Ditto, I thought the same, RB, but then I thought maybe this is Mahmoud's play at sarcasm...
Mahmoud Ali wrote:It's important to shake the bottle as you don't want to lose the texture and flavour that the sediment gives to the wine. I go to my cellar once a month to shake the bottles so that the sediment doesn't stick too hard to the side of the bottles.
Cheers.........Mahmoud.
Oh come on Mahmoud, no one believes that, you've been taken for a ride.
This is where the concept of riddling comes in. Go through your cellar and turn your bottles an eighth of a turn every week, to make sure the sediment never settles in one place for too long. But don't shake vigorously, it damages the sediment - you want long chain molecules to form to maximise the flavour.
Then before you drink the wine, stand the bottle up, but do it rapidly in one motion to make sure the sediment disperses evenly throughout the bottle without breaking the long chains again.
Lordson,
Wiz rarely talks s^&T. He has given you a very good answer - it's not as good as mine
- but then i stole it from: http://www.winecountrythisweek.com/site/article/11/7/
and it is this:
Despite its negative appeal to American wine drinkers, sediment is usually an indication of a wine that was not only made many years ago but made with extraordinary care to maintain its quality and character over time. This bitter tasting but harmless residue is the byproduct of the application of little or no filtration in the winemaking process, thus enabling a wine’s personality to more fully develop in the bottle.
Sediment in red wine is created over time by the breakdown of pigments and tannin within the wine. As time matures the wine, small amounts of these two phenolic compounds gradually settle at the bottom of the bottle. Phenolic compounds are anti-oxidants and are believed to be the reason for wine’s various health benefits.
It is possible that a wine of recent vintage will show some form of sediment, particularly unfiltered wines. It is important to know that this is not an indication of a fault in the wine and will not be harmful if consumed. Even white wines could leave a deposit of harmless crystals inside the bottle, which is simply an indication that the wine was previously exposed to very cold temperatures. These are called tartrate crystals and may also be found attached to the bottom of corks.
Besides allowing a wine to breathe and open up, the process of decanting a wine will clear the wine of sediment when it is carefully poured into a separate vessel. When preparing to decant a wine that contains sediment, allow the bottle to stand undisturbed in advance for about 24 hours, if possible, to allow the microscopic solids to settle at the bottom of the bottle. Be mindful not to shake or vibrate the bottle before uncorking it. This will stir up the sediment and make decanting more difficult.
When ready to decant, slowly pour the wine into a clean decanter vessel and closely observe the wine passing through the neck of the bottle. As soon as the wine inside the neck shows sediment, stop pouring. Sommeliers often place a lit candle under the neck to make it easier to see the wine the instant it changes clarity.
Geez louise - its decanting time!
Wiz rarely talks s^&T. He has given you a very good answer - it's not as good as mine
- but then i stole it from: http://www.winecountrythisweek.com/site/article/11/7/
and it is this:
Despite its negative appeal to American wine drinkers, sediment is usually an indication of a wine that was not only made many years ago but made with extraordinary care to maintain its quality and character over time. This bitter tasting but harmless residue is the byproduct of the application of little or no filtration in the winemaking process, thus enabling a wine’s personality to more fully develop in the bottle.
Sediment in red wine is created over time by the breakdown of pigments and tannin within the wine. As time matures the wine, small amounts of these two phenolic compounds gradually settle at the bottom of the bottle. Phenolic compounds are anti-oxidants and are believed to be the reason for wine’s various health benefits.
It is possible that a wine of recent vintage will show some form of sediment, particularly unfiltered wines. It is important to know that this is not an indication of a fault in the wine and will not be harmful if consumed. Even white wines could leave a deposit of harmless crystals inside the bottle, which is simply an indication that the wine was previously exposed to very cold temperatures. These are called tartrate crystals and may also be found attached to the bottom of corks.
Besides allowing a wine to breathe and open up, the process of decanting a wine will clear the wine of sediment when it is carefully poured into a separate vessel. When preparing to decant a wine that contains sediment, allow the bottle to stand undisturbed in advance for about 24 hours, if possible, to allow the microscopic solids to settle at the bottom of the bottle. Be mindful not to shake or vibrate the bottle before uncorking it. This will stir up the sediment and make decanting more difficult.
When ready to decant, slowly pour the wine into a clean decanter vessel and closely observe the wine passing through the neck of the bottle. As soon as the wine inside the neck shows sediment, stop pouring. Sommeliers often place a lit candle under the neck to make it easier to see the wine the instant it changes clarity.
Geez louise - its decanting time!
Barossa Shiraz
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Mahmoud Ali
- Posts: 2954
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Canada
Monghead, yes I was being sarcastic. And Wizz, no I don't really go to the cellar once a month to shake the bottles, just to caress them.
Sorry Lordson, I just couldn't resist what with the mental image I had of you "vigorously" shaking a bottle to dislodge the sediment.
It was late at night, as it is now, and like then I had shared a bottle of wiine with dinner and was sipping on 12 y.o. Highland Park.
Frankly I love the idea of sediment forming in the bottle. To me it's usually a sign of a winemaker who avoids excessive fining and filtration to maintain the flavour and character of his wine. Seeing sediment in a wine bottle makes me drool.
Cheers...........Mahmoud
Sorry Lordson, I just couldn't resist what with the mental image I had of you "vigorously" shaking a bottle to dislodge the sediment.
It was late at night, as it is now, and like then I had shared a bottle of wiine with dinner and was sipping on 12 y.o. Highland Park.
Frankly I love the idea of sediment forming in the bottle. To me it's usually a sign of a winemaker who avoids excessive fining and filtration to maintain the flavour and character of his wine. Seeing sediment in a wine bottle makes me drool.
Cheers...........Mahmoud
It's important to shake the bottle as you don't want to lose the texture and flavour that the sediment gives to the wine. I go to my cellar once a month to shake the bottles so that the sediment doesn't stick too hard to the side of the bottles.
Cheers.........Mahmoud.
Finally remembered my password ! I've been hanging around wine sites for years (Pinotnduck on another site), and that's got to be right up there as one of the funniest things I've ever read....and even funnier some thought he wasn't taking the piss
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Waiters Friend
- Posts: 2784
- Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 4:09 am
- Location: Perth WA
I actually remember being given some advice on cellaring (before I had a cellar) - not about shaking the sh$t out of the bottles, but turning them a half turn every week or so. The presumption was that the sediment would continue to interact with the wine in the bottle (as if it isn't anyway) and NOT stick to the sides.
The turning regime sounds like a vague imitation of remuage for sparkling wine (where the 'not sticking to the side of the bottle' is a good and deliberate thing). As far as the bottles in my cellar are concerned, the more sediment that sticks to the side of the bottle means less that I have to look for when I decant.
The turning regime sounds like a vague imitation of remuage for sparkling wine (where the 'not sticking to the side of the bottle' is a good and deliberate thing). As far as the bottles in my cellar are concerned, the more sediment that sticks to the side of the bottle means less that I have to look for when I decant.
Wine, women and song. Ideally, you can experience all three at once.
Many probably know this, but the habit of 'turning' bottles began in english country houses - the master of the house would make the excuse that he needed to turn his bottles now and again and shuffle down to the cellar to give them a once over, but in fact this was simply a ruse to enable him to do a regular stock-take to ensure the staff weren't nicking the decent stuff. Knowing the master did this regularly, there was no way the butler could get his hands on any and get away with it.
Cheers,
Mike
Mike