Semillon - What to age?

Maroon&Blue · Post by **Maroon&Blue** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:51 pm

After some advice from those forumites who fancy themselves as Semillon experts! :roll:

I don't have any at all in my cellar, but would like to add some and age them if possible.

I have really only tried some WA Semillon ( too young), but believe the Hunter region is supposed to be the "Bees Knees" !!

Any ideas please on best vintages & typically how long to age to bring the best out of them?

Thanks for any info.

Ronaldo

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:01 pm

Ronaldo, which ones have you tried?

pstarr · Post by **pstarr** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:26 pm

Some Hunter semillon makers do parallel releases of current vintage and aged releases (I have such from de Iuliis), or make early-drinking and cellaring styles (eg Tulloch). Mount Pleasant's Elizabeth (under screwcap) is a good option to see young and with age (they do both releases). Tyrrells can be a good start with semillon, as they have a diversity of styles and pricepoints.

Barossa semillon from Peter Lehmann and Bethany can give another view of what the grape can do.

Bright, fresh and sharp young Hunter semillon with good fish and chips is one of my favourite matches of wine and food.

winetastic · Post by **winetastic** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:41 pm

Mount Pleasant Elizabeth is the best place to start, costs around $12 as a current release and "fully mature" bottles can be found on the secondary market under $20 (try 1996 and 1997).

Stepping up the price scale, the obvious choices are:
Mount Pleasant "Phil Ryan Signature" Semillon (This year only, "young" vines from the Lovedale vineyard I beleive)
Tyrrells Vat 1 Semillon
Meerea Park Terracotta Semillon
Meerea Park Alexander Munro Semillon
Mount Pleasant Lovedale Semillon

I guess on average, most hunter sems start to show developed characters after say 5 years in the cellar? In general I suppose the softer and more fruity the wine is on release, the quicker it will develop to maturity. Likewise steely, herbaceous and acidic sems are often longer lived and take many years to show their best.

Adair · Post by **Adair** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:05 pm

As long as Gary Walsh does not read this post, please address me as "The Hunter Semillon King". :-)

2004 was the greatest vintage the decade for aging Hunter Semillon, although reports suggest that 2008 could be as good.

Yes there will be great ageworthy Semillon made by many producers in 2008, but if you were serious about aging Hunter Semillon and you did not want to take risks, call up the Tyrrell's cellar door, become a Private Bin member if need be, and buy a case of the 2008 Vat 1 for $25 per bottle. Drink one or two now as they will be great in a different way, then wait 8-10 years then drink one every summer. I am just about to crack open the first of my 2000 Vat 1's soon.

Something that will be a little more expensive but you will reap the benefits faster and it will still be risk-free, is to buy the 2004 Meerea Peak "Alexander Munro" Semillon (it is soon to be released or just has been). This is the greatest young Semillon I have tasted (a few years ago now) and will age and continue to improve for 20 years.

Buy some of the Mount Pleasant Elizabeth Museum Releases in order to experience aged Semillon, although watch out for the effects of oxidisation. It is best to experience these at cellar door if possible, or keep the receipt of a retailer. I would not buy these from auction.

Adair

Brucer · Post by **Brucer** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:28 pm

Just make sure you buy them with screwcaps for extended cellaring. There has been many Hunter semillon probs previous with corks.
B

Loztralia · Post by **Loztralia** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:11 pm

I've had a couple of 2002 Tyrell's Vat 1s of late and while they were very nice they are only just starting to show age characteristics. Still pretty pale and acidic, and only a smidge of the butteriness that you'd expect to emerge eventually.

My question: would people say that all decent Hunter Semillon is age-worthy, or are there specific characteristics that tell you whether they will or not? I got a couple of the Tamburlaine Members Reserve 2007s that Halliday raved about the last time I was up there, which are again very nice now but I really don't know if it's worth putting them away.

Maroon&Blue · Post by **Maroon&Blue** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:27 pm

Wizz wrote:Ronaldo, which ones have you tried?

Thanks Wizz

A WA Moss Brothers but probably drank it too young & a couple of Hunter V.....think it was Elizabeth &/or Tulloch , but may be wrong there!

Anyway, I probably haven't done justice to the wine by drinking too young!

Thats why I'm asking for advice on what to cellar & what pleasant surprise may result in the longer term!

Thanks for the response .

Maroon&Blue · Post by **Maroon&Blue** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:29 pm

Adair wrote:As long as Gary Walsh does not read this post, please address me as "The Hunter Semillon King".

2004 was the greatest vintage the decade for aging Hunter Semillon, although reports suggest that 2008 could be as good.

Yes there will be great ageworthy Semillon made by many producers in 2008, but if you were serious about aging Hunter Semillon and you did not want to take risks, call up the Tyrrell's cellar door, become a Private Bin member if need be, and buy a case of the 2008 Vat 1 for $25 per bottle. Drink one or two now as they will be great in a different way, then wait 8-10 years then drink one every summer. I am just about to crack open the first of my 2000 Vat 1's soon.

Thanks Adair.....thats exactly the sort of info I'm after.

Cheers

Ronaldo

Something that will be a little more expensive but you will reap the benefits faster and it will still be risk-free, is to buy the 2004 Meerea Peak "Alexander Munro" Semillon (it is soon to be released or just has been). This is the greatest young Semillon I have tasted (a few years ago now) and will age and continue to improve for 20 years.

Buy some of the Mount Pleasant Elizabeth Museum Releases in order to experience aged Semillon, although watch out for the effects of oxidisation. It is best to experience these at cellar door if possible, or keep the receipt of a retailer. I would not buy these from auction.

Adair

Maroon&Blue · Post by **Maroon&Blue** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:31 pm

winetastic wrote:Mount Pleasant Elizabeth is the best place to start, costs around $12 as a current release and "fully mature" bottles can be found on the secondary market under $20 (try 1996 and 1997).

Stepping up the price scale, the obvious choices are:
Mount Pleasant "Phil Ryan Signature" Semillon (This year only, "young" vines from the Lovedale vineyard I beleive)
Tyrrells Vat 1 Semillon
Meerea Park Terracotta Semillon
Meerea Park Alexander Munro Semillon
Mount Pleasant Lovedale Semillon

I guess on average, most hunter sems start to show developed characters after say 5 years in the cellar? In general I suppose the softer and more fruity the wine is on release, the quicker it will develop to maturity. Likewise steely, herbaceous and acidic sems are often longer lived and take many years to show their best.

Thanks Murray ...very informative

Cheers

Ronaldo

Daryl Douglas · Post by **Daryl Douglas** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:52 pm

Yeah, I know it seems like overkill and I haven't tried one for at least several years but I have enjoyed Tahbilk Semillon as a young wine in the past:

Generally overlooked - except by hard-core fans - and generally underrated - except by Wine Show Judges who have awarded 5 Gold & 9 Silver Medals to our Semillon releases for the 2000's thus far - the lively, zesty cut straw and herbal fruits and Granny Smith apple crispness on the finish of our latest release will sadly slip under the radar for many.
Take note of the beep, beep on your screen and sink a 2008 Semillon alongside your favourite grilled fish dish!

It's recommended to be drunk by 2013/15. Most winos don't get past Tahbilk marsanne but the roussanne has become my favourite white from there, got an 04 to try some time soon - the 08 is very nice.

Another sem I haven't had for some time is Peter Lehmann. It's another good quaffer when still fairly young and can be found <$10 at times.

Used to really like good bottles of Elizabeth when they were released with a minimum of 5 years age but got tired of the number of bottles that were ordinary, oxidised, even corked. Some years ago I got mixed case from the HVWS - the young sems were searingly acidic and dry, the reds ordinary. Put me off HV wines, the opposite of what it was supposed to do.

daz

Sharkey · Post by **Sharkey** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:58 pm

Loztralia wrote:My question: would people say that all decent Hunter Semillon is age-worthy, or are there specific characteristics that tell you whether they will or not?

My rule of thumb is that age-worthy Hunter Semillon usually has heaps of acid / low alcohol - often 11% or less. I think the current Vat 1 is 10.5%

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:03 pm

Maroon&Blue wrote:
Wizz wrote:Ronaldo, which ones have you tried?

Thanks Wizz

A WA Moss Brothers but probably drank it too young & a couple of Hunter V.....think it was Elizabeth &/or Tulloch , but may be wrong there!

Anyway, I probably haven't done justice to the wine by drinking too young!

Thats why I'm asking for advice on what to cellar & what pleasant surprise may result in the longer term!

Thanks for the response .

Thanks - just gauging where you're at before jumping in.

Tyrrells Vat 1 and McWiliams Lovedale are the two Hunter classics. Brokenwood ILR is also well rated. I'm less familiar with some of the newer labels like Meerea Park. McWilliams Elizabeth is good at a lower price point, both for early drinking and for ageing. Buy 04s if you can get them.

cheers

Andrew

Loztralia · Post by **Loztralia** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:54 am

Sharkey wrote:
My rule of thumb is that age-worthy Hunter Semillon usually has heaps of acid / low alcohol - often 11% or less. I think the current Vat 1 is 10.5%

The Tamburlaine in question is 10.2% and, if memory serves, fearsomely tart. So I reckon I'll give it a go...

winetastic · Post by **winetastic** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:42 am

For what its worth I feel that Tamburlaine jumped the shark a couple of years back, quality dropped as prices went up across their range.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:46 am

Yes, you want no oak, and under 12% preferably, if aging is your aim. Certainly the easiest one stop shop is Tyrrell's Private Bin membership - they annually release Vat 1, the cheapie quaffer Vat 7(?), plus the two single vineyard semillons - Vat 4 Stevens and Vat 18 Belford. And commercially (though not for aging) are the Lost Block and Old Winery semillons.

I think the screwcap will do wonders for the reliability of Hunter sems in general. Mount Pleasant is good too, but a lottery under cork. Haven't got experience with Meerea, I'm sorry to say.
cheers,
Graeme

orpheus · Post by **orpheus** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:06 am

I had a bottle of the 1986 Lovedale Semillon about 8 years ago and consider it one of the great white wine experiences I have had (along with an aged Bannockburn chardonnay, a couple of French burgundies, and a 1979 Petaluma riesling).

griff · Post by **griff** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:49 am

After recently having a few older WA straight semillons I think it worthwhile to get some to compare. Most make blends now as they sell much better but Cullen produce a lovely semillon that should age a decade or more.

cheers

Carl

Adair · Post by **Adair** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:22 am

FWIW, my greatest aged Hunter Sem was the 1986 Vat 1.

Also, I find that great aging Hunter Sems can be enjoyable in their 1st year or so, but hard work for a number of years afterwards... but you need to have a certain wine preference. In the red wine world, it is similar to enjoying young, ageworthy Cabernets or Wendouree reds at 2 years old... as opposed to having a preference for Shiraz fruit bombs or Grenache. Like these reds, great young and ageworthy Hunter Semillon can have awesome aromatics, in the case of these sems they are not dissimilar to young Riesling with florals and minerals, although always with a very lemon base as opposed to apple and lime of many Rieslings (although lime can build in these sems with age).

With regard to what great aged Hunter Semillons can achieve, for example, the 1986 Vat 1 was nearly indistinguishable from great Chablis (toast, nuts, vanilla, lemon, cream and honey, with sometimes still lime and florals in the background, on a much deeper palate than expected when young, yet still be a finely acidic backbone keeping all things fresh).

Adair

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:14 pm

orpheus wrote:I had a bottle of the 1986 Lovedale Semillon about 8 years ago and consider it one of the great white wine experiences I have had.

I have to agree, Orpheus. I've worked my way slowly through more than a case of 86 Lovedaloe over the past decade, and it's superb.

Unfortunately, I'm down to the very last one in the cellar, and when that is gone, tears will be shed!

On a different note, I have a little experience of Moss Wood semillon with a few years age. The 1987 drunk in 2000 was past it, but you could still see the quality lurking underneath. Maybe best at 5-6 years. This is not something I would say about too many Margaret River semillons.

Cheers

Allan

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:38 am

Please also see TN on 1998 Elizabeth. My curiosity was piqued by this thread.

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:01 am

Howdy Folks,

Tasted a Tyrrells Vat 1 Semillon 2000 today and it was ok, but I think it needs more time. Can anyone suggest a drinking window and/or has anyone tasted this wine recently?. Looking for a bit of advice as I am new to Semillon. Lover of all other good wine.

Cheers
Leigh

Adair · Post by **Adair** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:21 am

Leigh wrote:Howdy Folks,

Tasted a Tyrrells Vat 1 Semillon 2000 today and it was ok, but I think it needs more time. Can anyone suggest a drinking window and/or has anyone tasted this wine recently?. Looking for a bit of advice as I am new to Semillon. Lover of all other good wine.

Cheers
Leigh

2000 was never going to be a great Hunter Sem vintage, but I still bought a case but have yet to open my first bottle.

Gary's review 12 months ago was: Aromas of lemon, beeswax, green herbs and a little toastiness. On the palate light and dry with lemon pith, toast and grassy flavours. Very tight with strong acidity and a dry flinty finish. Pretty austere and grassy, but refreshing and clean, with bottle age just beginning to work its magic. A good (but by no means great) example of Vat 1. 91 Points. Drink: 2007 - 2012+

JO's review around the same times was: A more forward, sumptuous and slightly candied Vat 1 from a warmer season. Its restrained and still rather closed and dusty bouquet of lemon rind and sage has a spicy and slightly toasty element. Long and earthy, its elegant palate is smooth and restrained, with lemon drop-like fruit finishing tangy and refreshing, with a rather chalky, sherbet-like impression. Quite phenolic and textured. 90/100, drink 2008-2012+

Adair

Scanlon · Post by **Scanlon** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:15 pm

I received a bottle of the Tyrrel's lost block semillion froma wine club a while ago.

I know this isn't a top flight wine, but is it worthy of ageing?

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:39 pm

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Sean · Post by **Sean** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:46 pm

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Sean · Post by **Sean** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:08 pm

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Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:34 pm

98 was very solid for Hunter Semillon but not great (like 99). I'd not drink the 98 Vat 1 yet. It is still very backwards. Very good wine too.
GW

Adair · Post by **Adair** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:23 pm

Gary W wrote:98 was very solid for Hunter Semillon but not great (like 99). I'd not drink the 98 Vat 1 yet. It is still very backwards. Very good wine too.
GW

I was wondering when you would get here.

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:10 pm

Adair wrote:
Gary W wrote:98 was very solid for Hunter Semillon but not great (like 99). I'd not drink the 98 Vat 1 yet. It is still very backwards. Very good wine too.
GW
I was wondering when you would get here.

Well I'm a very busy man. Unlike yourself...the Idle Peoplemover types.
GW