Screwcaps

[Waiters Friend]

Before you cringe, and think "another debate about the virtues of cork vs screwcap"....this isn't one of those posts.

All I want to express is a realisation when I walked into my cellar a half-hour ago. I'm surprised at how quickly it might be before my collection of corkscrews will become redundant.

I have around 400 bottles, mostly Australian with a (precious) few French. Apart from the French, I store them according to grape variety. For example:

Riesling: No surprises here - I buy a case of Pewsey Vale every year, and have a revolving door on it, in terms of age, and Yalumba trialled the screwcap with this wine back in the 70's. There's quite a few others in here as well - out of 75 bottles, ranging in age from 1999 to 2008, only 5 are under cork.

Semillon: The reverse. I buy a case of Mount Pleasant Elizabeth every year, and have a similar revolving door process (drink a mix of older and younger ones and keep topping up with new releases). Almost all my Semillons are under cork (vintages 1996 - 2002), although it's interesting to note that I have just ordered a case of 2003 direct from McWilliams, and it's under screwcap. In this case, there's not a lot of variety, just almost entirely Elizabeths.

Chardonnay: I've already posted previously about my reservations of the ageing ability of Aussie Chardonnay - however, even I was surprised to find that the 20 or so bottles in the cellar (2004-2007) are all WA (MR and Pemberton, and mostly heavy hitters in there), and they're ALL screwcap.

About half of my cellar is white (even my Tahbilk Marsannes 2002-2007 are all screwcap); however, I can almost draw a line when more of my reds became screwcap as well, and that's 2005, especially for straight Shiraz and Cabernet. My few Pinots (for me, a similar cellaring reservation as Chardonnay) are 2004-2007, and mostly cork, perversely.

Is it a function of price? I don't have a lot of wines that I paid more than $25 a bottle in any quantity (although there are a couple of Granges, a few Cullens, and a few other 'one-off icons), and I'm finding the balance is definitely shifting in favour of screwcap.

I've discussed 'screwcap vs cork' with some of the best in the business; however, it seems strange that, if price is a factor, that the upper price points seem more prepared to accept the cork gamble, whereas the lower priced wines are more often screwcapped (I hasten to add that this is not only lower-priced wines - my Cullens are screwcapped).

Any thoughts, or am I flogging a dead horse?

Allan

[TORB]

I've discussed 'screwcap vs cork' with some of the best in the business; however, it seems strange that, if price is a factor, that the upper price points seem more prepared to accept the cork gamble, whereas the lower priced wines are more often screwcapped (I hasten to add that this is not only lower-priced wines - my Cullens are screwcapped).

Any thoughts, or am I flogging a dead horse?

Allan

Allan,

Its not as strange as you may think. The more expensive wines are generally built to age. Talk to people like Tim Smith and Reid Bosward, Drew Noon and many others, and they will tell you that their wines are big and that their wines will mature better under cork. In many cases, they are concerned that these wines may go reductive if they are sealed under screwcap.

[ufo]

I've discussed 'screwcap vs cork' with some of the best in the business; however, it seems strange that, if price is a factor, that the upper price points seem more prepared to accept the cork gamble, whereas the lower priced wines are more often screwcapped (I hasten to add that this is not only lower-priced wines - my Cullens are screwcapped).

Any thoughts, or am I flogging a dead horse?

Allan

Allan,

Its not as strange as you may think. The more expensive wines are generally built to age. Talk to people like Tim Smith and Reid Bosward, Drew Noon and many others, and they will tell you that their wines are big and that their wines will mature better under cork. In many cases, they are concerned that these wines may go reductive if they are sealed under screwcap.

Ric,

I remember reading articles in the past indicating that wine being reductive is actually wine making fault not something that is caused by screw caps. I can't seem to find those articles now. What do you say about that ?

[TORB]

Ufo,

Not sure if I would call it a winemaking fault any longer, but winemakers need to be cognisant of the impact of the closure and adjust their processes accordingly.

This will explain more. Damned if You Do - Screwed if You Don'tl

And this may also help... The Quest Continues

[El Josho]

For what it's worth, the company I work for - which represents a fair chunk of Australia's domestic and international wine business - is looking to move to screwcap on everything (subject to each particular distributing market's acceptance of such closures).

Takes a bit more time to make the move on screwcap on higher priced/lower volume wines that take a bit longer to take to market and sell through. For example, we are only just releasing some 2002's. At that rate, we should be able to release a screw cap version of same in 2014.

[Waiters Friend]

[quote="El Josho"]For what it's worth, the company I work for - which represents a fair chunk of Australia's domestic and international wine business - is looking to move to screwcap on everythingquote]

Does this imply that your company has sorted out the chemistry, and is convinced (possibly by a trials process) that therisk under screwcap is lower than the risk posed by cork?

[ufo]

Ufo,

Not sure if I would call it a winemaking fault any longer, but winemakers need to be cognisant of the impact of the closure and adjust their processes accordingly.

This will explain more. Damned if You Do - Screwed if You Don'tl

And this may also help... The Quest Continues

Ric,

The first URL points to a dead page.
I read the second one. OK it makes sence that winemakers should make their wines in consideration with what type of closure they are going to use. But in the final section of the article you quote;




"So where do I stand now? My opinion is going to be the complete opposite to “conventional thought” but that is because I am looking at the situation logically, not based on hype or any industry influence.



In the case of whites, I have no opinion as I don’t drink them.



Reds that have any reductive characters, or are unfiltered and unfined, need to be sealed under cork to show their best."


The last sentence indicates to me that wine gets the reductive characters before being bottled and closure applied. It is not some thing caused by screw cap itself.

[ken gillman]

Greetings from Tropical North Queensland
I have some (low level) science knowledge, but I'm not sure if the lees that get into the bott can make a wine more reductive after it has been closed. In other words (and aside from wines like V port we are talking v small quantities of lees) do they have sufficient buffering capacity? Anyone know? I suspect not; so any probs in that direction must be solvable by adjusting oxygenation prior to, and at, bottling.
As I understand it the suppliers will not guarantee less than 5 per cent TCA rate for any batch, whether supplied to Europe or Aus, and the major stats I am aware of (including peer reviewed scientific papers) show TCA rates barely any lower with the higher grades of cork.
If there is a statistician out there I think they would confirm that this is an inevitable result of the economics of screening. You take a sample of X corks out of a batch (say 20 randomly selected from 1000) and reject it if the No. of bad corks is > than Y. Stat distributions mean the maths work out that one cannot easily get less than 5 per cent.
Anyway, my practical issue I would value ideas about is this. I have lots of riesling, almost all under scr/c, and have far less bad botts than w corks, no contest. Well, not quite! Take the 2002 Mitchels, v reductive indeed, I have kept a lot of it thinking that might reduce with age, 6 yrs down the track and no change; what do I do? Send it back! Wait ten more yrs? Thoughts? Now I have opened my 1st of the 2002 Leonay, same, aweful v reductive. Do I send it back, wait, or what. Your views and advice please Ladies & Gentlemen.

[griff]

Greetings from Tropical North Queensland
I have some (low level) science knowledge, but I'm not sure if the lees that get into the bott can make a wine more reductive after it has been closed. In other words (and aside from wines like V port we are talking v small quantities of lees) do they have sufficient buffering capacity? Anyone know? I suspect not; so any probs in that direction must be solvable by adjusting oxygenation prior to, and at, bottling.
As I understand it the suppliers will not guarantee less than 5 per cent TCA rate for any batch, whether supplied to Europe or Aus, and the major stats I am aware of (including peer reviewed scientific papers) show TCA rates barely any lower with the higher grades of cork.
If there is a statistician out there I think they would confirm that this is an inevitable result of the economics of screening. You take a sample of X corks out of a batch (say 20 randomly selected from 1000) and reject it if the No. of bad corks is > than Y. Stat distributions mean the maths work out that one cannot easily get less than 5 per cent.
Anyway, my practical issue I would value ideas about is this. I have lots of riesling, almost all under scr/c, and have far less bad botts than w corks, no contest. Well, not quite! Take the 2002 Mitchels, v reductive indeed, I have kept a lot of it thinking that might reduce with age, 6 yrs down the track and no change; what do I do? Send it back! Wait ten more yrs? Thoughts? Now I have opened my 1st of the 2002 Leonay, same, aweful v reductive. Do I send it back, wait, or what. Your views and advice please Ladies & Gentlemen.

Its more the amount of sulfur they are using as well as fill level and whether they bottle under inert gas or ambient etc. rather than the lees as they are mostly if not entirely filtered out prior to bottling in most wine as far as I am aware.

I have had the same problem with an 02 classic clare reisling from Leasingham. While not confident I suspect that give it enough time and oxygen ingress will eventually resolve the reduction but as to when this will occur I don't know. Luckily winemakers as they gain experience with screwcap realise that they don't have to protect the wine so much under screwcap and reduction is less of a problem now with whites at least. Reds are still having issues now and then it seems but I am opeful of improvement.

cheers

Carl

[Red Bigot]

Take the 2002 Mitchels, v reductive indeed, I have kept a lot of it thinking that might reduce with age, 6 yrs down the track and no change; what do I do? Send it back! Wait ten more yrs?

The Mitchell 2002 Peppertree Shiraz is a prime example of why (wherever possible) you should try before buying in any quantity. It was truly ruined by the over-bearig reductive character that didn't breathe off. I would email or call them and ask them to take it back and replace it with current vintage as the wine is clearly undrinkable.

If the strong reductive character doesn't breathe off by a day later after opening and decanting or pouring a glass and shaking the remainder in the bottle vigorously, then it probably is will always be there. There were a few of these in the early days as makers learned how to prepare wines for bottling under screwcap, I haven't seen many recently.

[TORB]

ufo,

Thanks..... I have fixed the broken link so it will work now.

The last sentence indicates to me that wine gets the reductive characters before being bottled and closure applied. It is not some thing caused by screw cap itself.

It does and it doesn't. Reds, especially big reds, that spend a lot of time on lees and that are not filtered are prone to go reductive under screwcap. Under cork those wines may be fine and not show reductive characters after bottling, but combine a screwcap with the same wine and you could have a problem. So its not the wine or the screwcap, its a combination of the two.

[ken gillman]

shaking the remainder in the bottle vigorously,

Yes, I do that w rieslings (I was refering to riesling, not shiraz)

There were a few of these in the early days as makers learned how to prepare wines for bottling under screwcap, I haven't seen many recently

Yes, I appreciate that and agree. The degree is now minor, but I do tend to open some of my rieslings the day before.

[ufo]

ufo,

Thanks..... I have fixed the broken link so it will work now.

The last sentence indicates to me that wine gets the reductive characters before being bottled and closure applied. It is not some thing caused by screw cap itself.

It does and it doesn't. Reds, especially big reds, that spend a lot of time on lees and that are not filtered are prone to go reductive under screwcap. Under cork those wines may be fine and not show reductive characters after bottling, but combine a screwcap with the same wine and you could have a problem. So its not the wine or the screwcap, its a combination of the two.

Thanks for the info Ric. At the end, it is not right to generalize that all reds will go reductive under screw cap.