Your representative sample of Oz Riesling

davidg · Post by **davidg** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:20 pm

I have been roped in to organise a small tasting of Australian Rieslings for a group of friends. The idea is to get a range - probably about 6 different wines that express (as much as that is possible with only half a dozen wines) a sample of the breadth of styles, characters, etc of the variety as it is expressed here in Oz.

Because I don't drink much of the stuff (read hardly any) - I cannot rely on my cellar and therefore need to find wines that are at least moderately easy to obtain today.

So... to my question... if you were organising such an event, which wines would you choose?

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:28 pm

Off top of head

Petaluma/Grosset Watervale - Clare
Leonay - Eden
Plantagenet/Ferngrove Cossack/Howard Park - Mount Barker/Gt.Southern
Bay of Fires/Pipers Brook - Tas
Seppelt Drumborg/Henty Estate/Crawford River - W.Vic
Henschke Lenswood Greens/Wirra Lost Watch - Adl Hills

bonus points for
Grosset Polish/O'Leary Walker Polish - Clare Polish sub-region
Helm/Clonakilla - Canberra Region
Leeuwin - Margs

GW

griff · Post by **griff** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:55 pm

Gary's list is comprehensive! I would just like to say that I think the Steingarten is a typical Eden Riesling and a good alternate for the Leonay.

I think you should get bonus points for a Barossa riesling as well. Its a warmer style and drinking best young but a great comparison to the other regions. Rockford does the best one but there are a few others about.

As for Leo Buring you could do half the regions using them alone as they make a Riesling from Eden, Clare, Mt Barker and even Tasmania now!

cheers

Carl

PaulV · Post by **PaulV** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:48 pm

All these in Gary's list are examples of dry style riesling - while i think for that style the list of regions and makers gives a pretty idea of the scope of regional and possibly stylist differences i would like to see a few sweeter styles like:

Mount Horricks [Clare] Cordon Cut , or for a more mosel, germanic style the
Frogmore Creek FGR riesling (TAS - FGR stands for either Forty Grams Residual or " F****** Good Riesling)

Cheers

Paul

platinum · Post by **platinum** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:54 pm

I would add Granite Hills from Macedon (Vic) to Gary's list

griff · Post by **griff** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:56 pm

Don't forget Bellarmine's off-dry effort from Pemberton either. Very smart for the money.

cheers

Carl

PaulV · Post by **PaulV** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:00 pm

Agree Granite Hills - great wine - very pure.

For a cheaper but varietally and regionally correct version of eden valley have nearly always been happy with the St. Hallets version.

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:10 pm

Delatite too as another different style.

GW

fred · Post by **fred** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:52 pm

Just a couple of points:-

Unless the Leonay and Grosset Polish Hill have very significant age on them, there is little or no point to showing them: they need far more age to show reward than the others (eg Leonay 1991 is only just in my window - and 1994 still too young!!).

As to age: please remember that Oz riesling goes into a hole from about 3-6 under cork (longer for Leonay and Polish Hill) so either 2002 and older for most styles or fairly fresh (1-2 years).

Under screwcap the hibernation is not as apparent and I am not sure about dating...

A couple of other suggestions:

Richmond Grove (made by John Vickery doyen of great Burings rieslings)
Mitchell (Clare)
Pewsey Vale (Oz riesling's equivalent of Wynns BL CS) also Contours
Pikes
O'Leary Walker
Orlando Steingarten is stunning
Mesh
Capel Vale
Wynns coonawarra for budget and lighter style particularly if drinking it young
Lehmann gold

I would go for:-

Leeuwin (lighter MR style) current or maybe 01
Pipers Brook current
Petaluma 01
Grosset Watervale 05
Mitchell 02
Howard Park 01 (assuming you don't find 97)
Pewsey Vale 02 available

I realise there is more Clare but here than other regions but that also tends to reflect Oz riesling and the diverse styles within Clare; Drumborg excellent but again NOT a rewarding young drink but if you source a decently aged wine you will do very well.

My personal preference of region is actually more Eden valley but it is rare for the Eden wines to shine young - although the Pewsey which is ore commercial at least gives an inkling of what the top can do (Steingarten, Mesh etc).

Bear in mind that we had a rn of great rieslings: 2001-3 and again 2005 with both 2004 and 2006 being more forward, broader and with less ability to age (from SA generally).

The much-heralded 1997 vintage for riesling has not delivered the quality hoped (except say Howard Park which is stunning - perhaps the best aged riesling from WA I have seen) with age.

If the budget is larger (very considerably so) a 1973 or 1975 Leo Buring well-cellared riesling will show top-end quality with age as a very differing drink (albeit some of the wines are made in the same style today!).

Really much older rieslings will either be found at auction or by raiding friends or other cellars...

regards

Scanlon · Post by **Scanlon** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:00 pm

I'd bypass the current Mesh release - it's just a bit lacking. there are TNs around auswine if you need them.

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:02 pm

A big serving of middle aged Australian riesling is likely to put most people totally off it..let alone trying to source well cellared examples. Just as a point of opposing opinion I reckon Grosset Polish is as good young , probably better, as old..as are most Australian rieslings.
GW

Taswegian · Post by **Taswegian** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:15 pm

Speaking purely from a Tassie perspective, I would forget about the Pipers Brook Rieslings, unless older than 00. Look more towards the southern region, not just the Wellington FGR, but the straight '05 Wellington riesling which is classic Tassie (read: heaps of acid).
The BOF or even the second label Tigress drinks very well ( the majority of this fruit I believe comes from the southern area) with slightly more floral activity than puckering acid.
This is just my purely biased opinion.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:33 pm

A few others that are also good

Pikes Merle (Clare)
Castle Rock (Great Southern)
Forest Hill (Great Southern)
Tim Adams (Clare- under rated)

Cheers

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:52 pm

Grant wrote:Tim Adams (Clare- under rated)

Definitely, especially the 2006 Reserve Riesling - it's bloody brilliant.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:04 pm

I will just underline a few already spoken for

Petaluma
Steingarten
Henschke Julius
Howard Park
Seppelt Drumborg
Grosset
Pikes

All styles drier than what New Zealand does well in the main.

Dave Dewhurst · Post by **Dave Dewhurst** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:30 pm

I would second the Bellarmine suggestion by Carl above, perhaps even look at the Auslese which is pretty smart at the sweeter end of things. Another WA possibility is the ever top notch Castle Rock both young and moderately aged. Not had a really old one!

Also, what about a Coonawarra/Limestone coast riesling. Some of these seem to have a very different flavour profile, being more apples and pears than citrus.

Cheers

Dave

Dave Dewhurst · Post by **Dave Dewhurst** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:33 pm

Oh and Frankland Estate are also doing some great stuff with their individual vineyard rieslings (isolation ridge, poison hill and I think there's a third whose name escapes me right now). The 07 isolation is a study in citrussy acidity!

Cheers

Dave

Nayan · Post by **Nayan** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:35 pm

Gary W wrote:Delatite too as another different style.

GW

The current (UK) release, tried last week, was very sweet

Scanlon wrote:I'd bypass the current Mesh release - it's just a bit lacking. there are TNs around auswine if you need them.

I don't think Mesh has ever shown well on release; it needs a couple of years in bottle to blossom (but even then there are better around for the price)

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:48 pm

Richmond Grove Watervale
Clonakilla
Velo
Jim Barry Florita
Orlando Steingarten
Pewsey Vale
Howard Park

Most Tasmanian stuff is fairly average (excluding Velo); not a fan of the FGR from Frogmore. I think the Henschke Julius has missed the boat this year (though they do age incredibly well).

And of course Grosset takes pride of place (nab the '07 Watervale over the Polish Hill). Make sure you throw in a verdelho to keep them guessing (a Queensland one!).

Cheers,

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:14 am

Nayan wrote:
Gary W wrote:Delatite too as another different style.

GW

The current (UK) release, tried last week, was very sweet

They do a high RS one called Sylvia, a late harvest and a standard dry bottling.
GW

DaveB · Post by **DaveB** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:23 am

I'll pitch in:

Grosset Watervale
Mt Horrocks Cordon Cut
Seppelt Drumborg
Orlando Steingarten
Mac Forbes RS 16
Howard Park
Pipers Brook
Clonakilla
Henschke Greens
Pewsey Vale Contours
Taylors St Andrews

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:42 am

Do yourself a favour and grab a Forest Hill Block 1 Riesling. Mind Blowing stuff.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:07 am

Taswegian wrote:Speaking purely from a Tassie perspective, I would forget about the Pipers Brook Rieslings, unless older than 00. Look more towards the southern region, not just the Wellington FGR, but the straight '05 Wellington riesling which is classic Tassie (read: heaps of acid).
The BOF or even the second label Tigress drinks very well ( the majority of this fruit I believe comes from the southern area) with slightly more floral activity than puckering acid.
This is just my purely biased opinion.

Interestingly, my perspective is that Tassie can do a more floral, musky riesling, which you rarely see from Clare / Eden. Not all Tas efforts are in this category (Holm Oak, for instance), but many of the southern wines tend to be, in my experience; Bream Creek, Moorilla, and Lubiana especially, which would be my pick, IF you are trying to contrast styles. (Also should be relatively easy to source).
At my last tasting of Bay of Fires at the CD a month ago, it could have passed for a mainlander easily.
cheers,
Graeme

davidg · Post by **davidg** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:24 pm

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I'll start hunting around and see what I can find.

I fear that for the most part I will end up with newer vintages - simply from the standpoint of time and availability.

While our tasting group format (for the moment) is stuck at 6 wines, the most common way to get around that restriction is to bring others out for the dinner that always occurs afterwards.

bob parsons · Post by **bob parsons** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:33 pm

Scanlon wrote:I'd bypass the current Mesh release - it's just a bit lacking. there are TNs around auswine if you need them.

Not sure of the vintage here in Alberta, but I am tempted. $32 Cdn ouch!!

Daryl Douglas · Post by **Daryl Douglas** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:00 pm

Dan wrote:Do yourself a favour and grab a Forest Hill Block 1 Riesling. Mind Blowing stuff.

I've tried their standard riesling 2006 and it's a cracker as well. Halliday rates it 95/100 ($20 CD), just behind the Block 1 on 96/100 ($35 CD). The winery seems more upbeat about the ageing potential of the Block 1 though. It's a Great Southern/Mt Barker wine, in case you were wondering.

Like Gary, I prefer younger rieslings but had a bottle or two of Wilson Vineyard Polish Hill 99 and 04 last Sept. Both very nice but I did prefer the younger wine which also seemed to have the potential to age well.

Tried a bottle of Jim Barry Watervale 05 on the weekend which bats a bit above it's rrp I reckon. As I type, I'm tasting a Richmond Grove Watervale 04 for the first time - was a bit surprised when the sealing pad stuck to the rim of the bottle and when it was removed there was a bit of a pop. I thought then that it was likely to have a some spritz and yes, some bubbles formed on the side/bottom of the glass. Maybe there's a bit of residual sugar and some heat exposure caused some secondary fermentation. The JB ($8 runout stock) was better than the RG ($10 ditto). It's taken a while to compose this post so reporting back on the RG which has lost the spritz and seems to have improved with some air - it has a slight fruity sweetness about it but that's balanced by some limey/citrus acid. The finish could be longer though remember too that the 2004 vintage wasn't one of the Clare's best for riesling.

Forget the vintage but I've tried Grosset Polish Hill and Watervale from the same one. I preferred the Watervale.

One of my favourite rieslings, especially at the price, has long been Tahbilk's from the Nagambie Lakes region of the Goulburn Valley. Over recent years it's picked up a few medals, the 2006 a gold somewhere but not sure which show. Halliday rates the 05 94/100. Their riesling is probably my favourite Tahbilk white wine. After all, you are looking for wines from different regions and as usual, this one seems to have slipped under the radar of most (all?) here.

Thoroughly enjoyed a couple of btls of the BOF Tigress 06(?) in the last several months and a couple of Seppelt Drumborgs as well a bit before that.

Can't think of any others at present, other than the occasionally very good/excellent Jacobs Creek - apparently the 06 was in that category.

Cheers

daz

Edit: http://www.tahbilk.com.au/
The Jim Barry Watervale was 05, sorry... :oops:

griff · Post by **griff** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:36 pm

Daryl Douglas wrote:
Dan wrote:Do yourself a favour and grab a Forest Hill Block 1 Riesling. Mind Blowing stuff.

I've tried their standard riesling 2006 and it's a cracker as well. Halliday rates it 95/100 ($20 CD), just behind the Block 1 on 96/100 ($35 CD). The winery seems more upbeat about the ageing potential of the Block 1 though. It's a Great Southern/Mt Barker wine, in case you were wondering.

Like Gary, I prefer younger rieslings but had a bottle or two of Wilson Vineyard Polish Hill 99 and 04 last Sept. Both very nice but I did prefer the younger wine which also seemed to have the potential to age well.

Tried a bottle of Jim Barry Watervale 04 on the weekend which bats a bit above it's rrp I reckon. As I type, I'm tasting a Richmond Grove Watervale 04 for the first time - was a bit surprised when the sealing pad stuck to the rim of the bottle and when it was removed there was a bit of a pop. I thought then that it was likely to have a some spritz and yes, some bubbles formed on the side/bottom of the glass. Maybe there's a bit of residual sugar and some heat exposure caused some secondary fermentation. The JB ($8 runout stock) was better than the RG ($10 ditto). It's taken a while to compose this post so reporting back on the RG which has lost the spritz and seems to have improved with some air - it has a slight fruity sweetness about it but that's balanced by some limey/citrus acid. The finish could be longer though remember too that the 2004 vintage wasn't one of the Clare's best for riesling.

Forget the vintage but I've tried Grosset Polish Hill and Watervale from the same one. I preferred the Watervale.

One of my favourite rieslings, especially at the price, has long been Tahbilk's from the Nagambie Lakes region of the Goulburn Valley. Over recent years it's picked up a few medals, the 2006 a gold somewhere but not sure which show. Halliday rates the 05 94/100. Their riesling is probably my favourite Tahbilk white wine. After all, you are looking for wines from different regions and as usual, this one seems to have slipped under the radar of most (all?) here.

Thoroughly enjoyed a couple of btls of the BOF Tigress 06(?) in the last several months and a couple of Seppelt Drumborgs as well a bit before that.

Can't think of any others at present, other than the occasionally very good/excellent Jacobs Creek - apparently the 06 was in that category.

Cheers

daz

Edit: http://www.tahbilk.com.au/

I think that while the Tahbilk is decent, the Mitchelton has the pedigree.

Also I wonder it the 04's might just be going through that adolescent stage with the primary fruit declining and the secondary flavours not coming online just yet.

For what it is worth with regards to the 01 vintage under screwcap (my first ones infact) the Leasingham blew the Jim Barry away. The former just starting its upward development and the JB soft and flabby and going nowhere. Could be some heat damage prior to sale back in 2002 though.

cheers

Carl

Daryl Douglas · Post by **Daryl Douglas** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:11 am

griff wrote:

I think that while the Tahbilk is decent, the Mitchelton has the pedigree.

Also I wonder it the 04's might just be going through that adolescent stage with the primary fruit declining and the secondary flavours not coming online just yet.

For what it is worth with regards to the 01 vintage under screwcap (my first ones infact) the Leasingham blew the Jim Barry away. The former just starting its upward development and the JB soft and flabby and going nowhere. Could be some heat damage prior to sale back in 2002 though.

cheers

Carl[/quote]

The Leasingham Bin 7 has a generally good reputation; I've tried and enjoyed it before too. But it's not fair to compare wines from 01 to those from 04 - the Jim Barry 05 was the Quaff "White Wine Of The Year 2006". Though I have no idea of the selection criteria or even what "Quaff" is (but suspect it's a retailer-based group), I suspect that vfm/qpr/sales volume were factors in it gaining that award. It was still quite fresh but I wouldn't think it'd last beyond 10 years, perhaps even be a bit tired by then.

I've also tried the Blackwood Park riesling 01 and from what I recall of comparing the Tahbilk 01 to it, I thought the Mitchelton wine was a little better. I remember being a bit disappointed by a later vintage of the BP, not sure, perhaps the 02. As far as Halliday's opinions in the 2008 Wine Companion regarding the BP 06 and Tahbilk 05, the former rates 90/100, the latter 94/100.

Palate preferences always are a major factor in our enjoyment of individual wines.

Best

daz

Edit: I did mention that I prefer young, fresh whites, especially rieslings. I also prefer to drink other varietal whites within, generally, a few years of vintage.

Daryl Douglas · Post by **Daryl Douglas** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:41 pm

griff wrote:As for Leo Buring you could do half the regions using them alone as they make a Riesling from Eden, Clare, Mt Barker and even Tasmania now!

cheers

Carl

I thought the Steingarten OK, same with the Leo Buring Eden Valley also tried in the past - haven't had any Leonay though. Have you tried examples of the Burings from each of the regions you mentioned?

Cheers

daz

griff · Post by **griff** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:04 am

Daryl Douglas wrote:
griff wrote:As for Leo Buring you could do half the regions using them alone as they make a Riesling from Eden, Clare, Mt Barker and even Tasmania now!

cheers

Carl

I thought the Steingarten OK, same with the Leo Buring Eden Valley also tried in the past - haven't had any Leonay though. Have you tried examples of the Burings from each of the regions you mentioned?

Cheers

daz

I have had plenty of the Eden and Clare versions. Had the Mt Barker once and was very impressed. Isn't discounted like the former two though. Just saw the tasmanian version the other day so have yet to try.

cheers

Carl