Saturday night saw me cooking a posh meal for a lovely lady with whom I am in ongoing romantic negotiations.
I needed some fancy, romantic wine to compliment the salmon dish. So it had to be pinot didn't it ?
I grabbed a bottle of 2001 Bannockburn, the Reidel sommelier glasses and decanter and away we went.
My first impression of the wine was one of staggering indifference. It was not faulty, but it was fairly simple and lacking in that normal floral pinot nose. Decent wine, but more of a pleasant dry red than anything else.
I remember Bannockburn pinots as being much better than this in year past. Anyone else care to comment ?
Oh pinot ... you constantly disappoint me.
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Gavin Trott
- Posts: 1860
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:01 pm
- Location: Adelaide
- Contact:
Re: Oh pinot ... you constantly disappoint me.
Blake wrote:Saturday night saw me cooking a posh meal for a lovely lady with whom I am in ongoing romantic negotiations.
I needed some fancy, romantic wine to compliment the salmon dish. So it had to be pinot didn't it ?
I grabbed a bottle of 2001 Bannockburn, the Reidel sommelier glasses and decanter and away we went.
My first impression of the wine was one of staggering indifference. It was not faulty, but it was fairly simple and lacking in that normal floral pinot nose. Decent wine, but more of a pleasant dry red than anything else.
I remember Bannockburn pinots as being much better than this in year past. Anyone else care to comment ?
Hello
Not with that wine, but my wife's favourite Pinot used to be the Knappstein Lenswood Pinot.
Last time I wanted to give her a nice Pinot on a special occasion, same thing.
"My first impression of the wine was one of staggering indifference. It was not faulty, but it was fairly simple and lacking in that normal floral pinot nose. Decent wine, but more of a pleasant dry red than anything else. "
was pretty well our version also, decent enough wine but totally un exciting, at $50+.
The Bannockburn is even dearer!
I/we don't drink much Pinot for that very reason.
regards
Gavin Trott
Gavin Trott
I find I get my best results from PN at the cheaper end of the spectrum, say the $15 to $25 range. Often dissapointed but only in as far as I feel I could have bought a bottle of cab or shiraz at the same price point that would have killed what we were drinking, but also get some very pleasant and often stunning surprises.
The thing with PN IMO anyway is that the results don't seem to change much with the price range, just the depth of the disappointment increases on getting an ordinary unexciting wine at a very unordinary price.
Currently I am absolutely thoroughly enjoying a pile of Tuck's Ridge '98 standard labelling we got at auction for under $20 a bottle. Absolutely stunning. The kind of PN that keeps you trying.
The thing with PN IMO anyway is that the results don't seem to change much with the price range, just the depth of the disappointment increases on getting an ordinary unexciting wine at a very unordinary price.
Currently I am absolutely thoroughly enjoying a pile of Tuck's Ridge '98 standard labelling we got at auction for under $20 a bottle. Absolutely stunning. The kind of PN that keeps you trying.
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Guest
Blake,
I've tried the 2001 Bannockburn,thought it was a pretty solid wine. It may be possible that you had some low level cork taint,hard to detect on the nose but tends to flatten the features of the wine,both on the nose and palate. Only reason i suggest this is because of the note you made about it not showing much at all,that doesn't ring true from my experience.
cheers
I've tried the 2001 Bannockburn,thought it was a pretty solid wine. It may be possible that you had some low level cork taint,hard to detect on the nose but tends to flatten the features of the wine,both on the nose and palate. Only reason i suggest this is because of the note you made about it not showing much at all,that doesn't ring true from my experience.
cheers
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lantana
Blake,
I'd tend to agree with the previous posting from the Guest. If you are not familiar with a particular wine, low level cork taint is a real killer! Alot of corked wine is not returned to bottleshops for that very reason. I've had the Bannockburn 2001 PN on a couple of occasions & have really enjoyed the earthy, meaty, smoky bacon, dark fruits that to my mind are representative of Gary Farr's pinots.
As far as serving the wine too warm, I would think that would only increase it's volatility, not dull it down.
lantana
I'd tend to agree with the previous posting from the Guest. If you are not familiar with a particular wine, low level cork taint is a real killer! Alot of corked wine is not returned to bottleshops for that very reason. I've had the Bannockburn 2001 PN on a couple of occasions & have really enjoyed the earthy, meaty, smoky bacon, dark fruits that to my mind are representative of Gary Farr's pinots.
As far as serving the wine too warm, I would think that would only increase it's volatility, not dull it down.
lantana
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Colin Rule
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:05 pm
Pinot & Salmon
Hi Blake, for what its worth I have been disappointed seval times with Salmon & Pinot. My friend Don does a wonderful bbq whole salmon and it seems to go better with a nice riesling or piot gris (something to cut through the oilyness of the fish). Pinot especially doesn't seem to go with any sort of lemon or lime sauces you might have with the fish. Just my thoughts. Cheers Colin.
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Stan
Hi,
I think there are many 2001 Pinots that are very rich and actually over ripe/too warm a year and the vibrancy and fragrance that is usually there is missing. The wines tend towards darker fruits and are rich and round rather than pure and racy. Check the alcohols. Past year wines were probably around 13-13.5% but I suggest many 2001s are over this. It does make a difference to fruit freshness and therefor varietal definition and style.
It was a year experienced accelatated ripening and caught many people out.
Stan
I think there are many 2001 Pinots that are very rich and actually over ripe/too warm a year and the vibrancy and fragrance that is usually there is missing. The wines tend towards darker fruits and are rich and round rather than pure and racy. Check the alcohols. Past year wines were probably around 13-13.5% but I suggest many 2001s are over this. It does make a difference to fruit freshness and therefor varietal definition and style.
It was a year experienced accelatated ripening and caught many people out.
Stan
Well i tend to drink pinot nearly everyday. I would be amongst the lowest income earners here on a storemans wage..but i manage to drink nice wine. Yes there are plenty of average pinots for above average prices..but plenty of good drops available as well. It is a wine that suits the climate i live in..and goes great with most foods..especially duck a favourite of my wife and I.
The 2001 Bannockburn is a nice wine..i suspect a low level of cork taint if it was a bit flat as the 3 bottles i have had were all very nice..were they good value..probably not as i can find pinots as good for less.The 2000 Bannockburn was a better wine though and worth the dollars.
For a cheap drink try the Preece 2002 Pinot Noir (Mornington Pen) at around $10..nice varietal character..ripe fruit palate of cherries ..nice mouthfeel and finish. Great value every day wine. The 2001 Montana Reserve (Marlbourough NZ) at around $16 is also a decent drink..Swan Bay(Geelong) at around $15 also decent value (better value than Scotchmans Hill)
In the $20 - $30 bracket i like Coldstream Hills 2002 and De Bortoli 2000..also Shelmadine 2002 all from Yarra valley are all worth a drink.Old Kent River 1999(Great Southern WA) if you can find it is also a special drop..drinking at its peak now.
In the $30 - $40 bracket there are more misses than hits..This is definately buyer beware territory..and it should not be..one should have confidence that these prices bring quality and sadly often they do not.
If you can find Waipara Springs Reserve Pinot Noir 2001 around $32..snap it up..great wine..ripe cherry fruit..beautiful soft velvet tannins on a long finish..awesome wine.
Salitage 2001 (Pemberton WA)at around $35 is great wine..excellent structure with ripe fruit in balance..long finish..one of the best pinots out of WA i've tried.
Above $40 there are some great wines and some average ones way overpriced..some worth seeking are.
Quartz Reef 2001 or 2002 (Central Otago) are both amazing wines..the 2002 the better but both worth buying. Voluptuous sexy pinot at its best.
Villa Maria reserve 2001 - awesome wine..amazing length and you'd never know it had 15% alc!!
Anyway i for one enjoy the pleasures of pinot..and with a little research to avoid the crappy ones it's not hard and worth the effort.It is certainly worth the effort to surf the web and research. SueNZ's Wine of the Week is an excellent resourse for kiwi pinot tasting notes.This forum and the "other" main ozzy forum are also excellent places to get a broad range of opinions.
A big problem is the lack of knowledge at a retail level with staff who dont understand the wine. I take pride in the service i give to customers..and can explain every wine in the pinot section to customers honestly and frankly.I have increased the number of pinots we carry at work from 6 to 45..they are selling very well across all price points..with many locals now being converted. If you offer good wine across all price points pinots can sell...and sell bloody well at that.
Australian tastes seem to be heading to lighter styles of red wine (ie the Merlot boom) and pinot will have its time. It gets easier every year to find decent value pinot..more producers, better techniques, better regions more suited to the grape, and better clones being used. All this will lead to a rosy future for the pinot drinker in oz in my opinion..
Cheers
Paul
The 2001 Bannockburn is a nice wine..i suspect a low level of cork taint if it was a bit flat as the 3 bottles i have had were all very nice..were they good value..probably not as i can find pinots as good for less.The 2000 Bannockburn was a better wine though and worth the dollars.
For a cheap drink try the Preece 2002 Pinot Noir (Mornington Pen) at around $10..nice varietal character..ripe fruit palate of cherries ..nice mouthfeel and finish. Great value every day wine. The 2001 Montana Reserve (Marlbourough NZ) at around $16 is also a decent drink..Swan Bay(Geelong) at around $15 also decent value (better value than Scotchmans Hill)
In the $20 - $30 bracket i like Coldstream Hills 2002 and De Bortoli 2000..also Shelmadine 2002 all from Yarra valley are all worth a drink.Old Kent River 1999(Great Southern WA) if you can find it is also a special drop..drinking at its peak now.
In the $30 - $40 bracket there are more misses than hits..This is definately buyer beware territory..and it should not be..one should have confidence that these prices bring quality and sadly often they do not.
If you can find Waipara Springs Reserve Pinot Noir 2001 around $32..snap it up..great wine..ripe cherry fruit..beautiful soft velvet tannins on a long finish..awesome wine.
Salitage 2001 (Pemberton WA)at around $35 is great wine..excellent structure with ripe fruit in balance..long finish..one of the best pinots out of WA i've tried.
Above $40 there are some great wines and some average ones way overpriced..some worth seeking are.
Quartz Reef 2001 or 2002 (Central Otago) are both amazing wines..the 2002 the better but both worth buying. Voluptuous sexy pinot at its best.
Villa Maria reserve 2001 - awesome wine..amazing length and you'd never know it had 15% alc!!
Anyway i for one enjoy the pleasures of pinot..and with a little research to avoid the crappy ones it's not hard and worth the effort.It is certainly worth the effort to surf the web and research. SueNZ's Wine of the Week is an excellent resourse for kiwi pinot tasting notes.This forum and the "other" main ozzy forum are also excellent places to get a broad range of opinions.
A big problem is the lack of knowledge at a retail level with staff who dont understand the wine. I take pride in the service i give to customers..and can explain every wine in the pinot section to customers honestly and frankly.I have increased the number of pinots we carry at work from 6 to 45..they are selling very well across all price points..with many locals now being converted. If you offer good wine across all price points pinots can sell...and sell bloody well at that.
Australian tastes seem to be heading to lighter styles of red wine (ie the Merlot boom) and pinot will have its time. It gets easier every year to find decent value pinot..more producers, better techniques, better regions more suited to the grape, and better clones being used. All this will lead to a rosy future for the pinot drinker in oz in my opinion..
Cheers
Paul
"You have only so many bottles in your life, never drink a bad one"
---Len Evans
---Len Evans
Heres the tasting notes from Winefront Monthly - tasting notes i rate highly for all wine.
Bannockburn Pinot Noir 2000 ($47): When this was
first released it didnÂ’t convince me but it sure does now. It
has an exceptionally classy, smoky, burning cigars and
sappy cherry nose – it’s complex and intense from the
beginning. In the mouth the power continues, with an
important satin overlay, savoury/sour cherry flavours that
launch and glide like weighty birds of flavour, and a sappy,
smoky complexity. Length. Texture. Composure. Drink:
Now-2009. 95 points.
Cheers
Paul
Bannockburn Pinot Noir 2000 ($47): When this was
first released it didnÂ’t convince me but it sure does now. It
has an exceptionally classy, smoky, burning cigars and
sappy cherry nose – it’s complex and intense from the
beginning. In the mouth the power continues, with an
important satin overlay, savoury/sour cherry flavours that
launch and glide like weighty birds of flavour, and a sappy,
smoky complexity. Length. Texture. Composure. Drink:
Now-2009. 95 points.
Cheers
Paul
"You have only so many bottles in your life, never drink a bad one"
---Len Evans
---Len Evans
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Guest
I recently had a similar experience with the 01 Paringa estate pinot. After raving about the 00 I tried the 01. The beautiful nose of the 00 was gone and in its place was a rather flat Pinot approaching a medium bodied Shiraz . We tried another 2 bottles all of which were the same. My immediate thought after the first bottle was low grade TCA but after the next 2 were the same, I have my doubts.
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lantana
Bannockburn Pinot 2001
Hi Blake et al,
Tried the B'burn P/N 2001 again last night. The wine has definitely changed since I originally tried it, I think it may be shutting down. After double decanting & really working it in a Riedel Burgundy glass for over 1 & 1/2 hours, it did begin to show a powerful whiff of cinnamon & cloves, black fruits & moderate, very fine tannins, but what surprised me most was the very high level of acidity it started to show. I would have thought that would've been a constant, but it obviously changed or the perception of it changed as everything else began to lift. That then made me think that this wine is definitely one for the long haul, 10-15 years would not surprise. I've seen this characteristic in quite a few 1er Cru Burgundy's & let's not forget that Farr has done many vintages with Domaine Dujac, which are usually incredibly long lived wines. Just MO.
Cheers lantana
Tried the B'burn P/N 2001 again last night. The wine has definitely changed since I originally tried it, I think it may be shutting down. After double decanting & really working it in a Riedel Burgundy glass for over 1 & 1/2 hours, it did begin to show a powerful whiff of cinnamon & cloves, black fruits & moderate, very fine tannins, but what surprised me most was the very high level of acidity it started to show. I would have thought that would've been a constant, but it obviously changed or the perception of it changed as everything else began to lift. That then made me think that this wine is definitely one for the long haul, 10-15 years would not surprise. I've seen this characteristic in quite a few 1er Cru Burgundy's & let's not forget that Farr has done many vintages with Domaine Dujac, which are usually incredibly long lived wines. Just MO.
Cheers lantana
Davo wrote:I find I get my best results from PN at the cheaper end of the spectrum, say the $15 to $25 range. Often dissapointed but only in as far as I feel I could have bought a bottle of cab or shiraz at the same price point that would have killed what we were drinking, but also get some very pleasant and often stunning surprises.
The thing with PN IMO anyway is that the results don't seem to change much with the price range, just the depth of the disappointment increases on getting an ordinary unexciting wine at a very unordinary price.
Davo,
I agree. It also helps that I'm not the world's biggest Pinot drinker, but it can be a huge disappointment when it's no good.
One Pinot I did come across a couple of years ago at a wine expo was the Nepenthe Pinot (1998 vintage, I think). As with your Tuck's Ridge, this is one of the few that have kept me trying. A bit further up the price scale and Lark Hill keeps me coming back too.
Ciao,
michaelw
You know it makes sense!
michaelw
You know it makes sense!
Ducking for cover.... 
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lantana
