TWA#179???

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:24 pm

paulsa wrote:Hi Torb, I'm curious what would be the (legal) difference between someone posting parkers wine scores on this forum and a retailer posting parkers scores (as many do) on an online shop? unless retailers can specifically get a subscription enabling them to post scores.

Besides the points Gavin made, the other reason is "intent" - for want of a better word.

If a retailer quotes TN's and scores in advertising, the intent is to sell product. In return the author gains publicity that may lead to business from the consumer.

If we post a heap of scores and TN's here, especially in answer to questions, the intent is to provide information, information that Parker could be able to sell us.

Dionysus · Post by **Dionysus** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:44 pm

Good people, looked at the RP list, there is no Rockford which must obviously mean Rocky does not give his wines to any reviewer? is this correct?

Andre · Post by **Andre** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:48 pm

Dionysus wrote:Good people, looked at the RP list, there is no Rockford which must obviously mean Rocky does not give his wines to any reviewer? is this correct?

I don't really know if the wines are given to them. They can simply buy the wines. Anyone has an affirmative answer for this question ?

Jay60A · Post by **Jay60A** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:19 am

Nothing new but do the scores matter unless you have the same taste as the reviewer? Or a a retailer with stock to shift.

My favourite Amon Ra has been the 04 which Parker rated 93 I think. Therefore there's lots of it and it is cheaper. And every US amateur tastes it (not blind) and says "not as good as the 02/03/05" ...

I find the wines that hold back a bit and show balance & controlled power at 90% as opposed to "full-throttle" are far more cerebral and satisfying. I have to admit I find on SA Shiraz I agree with GW a lot these days.

Don't post the numbers, my resolve may weaken!

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:57 am

GraemeG wrote:Baffling! Some American whom no one here has ever met has posted a bunch of scores on Australian wines, and everyone's agog. I can't figure out whether people are trying to justify a past purchasing decision or see how much potential profit they might have made if they flog their wines at auction.
Surely many of these wines will have received erudite(!) discussions here, or on wine*, or one of the local blogs - or even the usual local wine media - by people whose notes you've read for a ages, and whose style preferences and biases you understand. It's even possible the ever-reliable CraigNZ has given the wine a score out of 109, in addition to a note.
What could you possibly learn from this Miller character?
cheers,
Graeme

Graeme,

I'm not sure that everyone is all ears and eyes for the TWA Aussie issue, but its simply realistic to have an interest in how one of the more influential wine publications rates Aussie wines. I'd be quite certain that Gavin or any other retailer is looking at TWA #173 to see what wines they should stock based on some of the scores. How TWA (and its reviewers) view the wine world does not suit all tastes but but we shouldn't ignore the influence that it has - even if its not Parker doing the reviews.

Mike

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:59 am

Andre wrote:
Dionysus wrote:Good people, looked at the RP list, there is no Rockford which must obviously mean Rocky does not give his wines to any reviewer? is this correct?

I don't really know if the wines are given to them. They can simply buy the wines. Anyone has an affirmative answer for this question ?

In the last news letter they said they were no longer going to supply the US, so it is no surprise that the WA did not receive samples.

Oliver's site reviews them, so I guess he gets samples.

Ian S · Post by **Ian S** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:16 am

TORB wrote:Gavin (and you guys) have to be careful here. If you post a heap of scores it could be seen as a copyright violation.

Or pretty sad...

Today I'm releasing scores on various fruits

Apples - 95 points
Kumquats - 87 points
Cherries - 91 points
Tomatoes - 85 points
Pears - 98 points

but by now my loyal fans will have emptied the shelves of Pears (you might be able to get the odd apple if you're quick)

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:22 am

KMP wrote:Graeme,
I'm not sure that everyone is all ears and eyes for the TWA Aussie issue, but its simply realistic to have an interest in how one of the more influential wine publications rates Aussie wines. I'd be quite certain that Gavin or any other retailer is looking at TWA #173 to see what wines they should stock based on some of the scores. How TWA (and its reviewers) view the wine world does not suit all tastes but but we shouldn't ignore the influence that it has - even if its not Parker doing the reviews.
Mike

Mike, I can understand retailers taking an interest - there are plenty of sheep who are interested in wines that WA gives a big score - and ONLY wines that WA gives a big score. But, honestly (and i'm speaking from a local perspective here) I'd expect most of these wines have been available on retail shelves for some time now. If you weren't interested in some wine before, why now, just because Miller thinks it's wonderful? This isn't Bordeaux, where the stuff's not available yet. Anything you were half-interested in you could have tried and bought by now.
For Australians buying Australian wines, following WA isn't really anything to do with buying the best local wines. It seems to me more about wanting to be part of the 'WA crowd' and talking about 'Bob' and 'Jay' and minute analysis of their palate differences.
Sailling rather close to wine wankerism, I reckon. Yeah, I outsource all my wine buying to WA. Good 'ol Jay, he knows about the Hunter Valley, and Seppelts different vineyards in the Grampians, what Wynns have done with their Coonawarra vineyards... :roll:

cheers,
Graeme

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:29 am

I reckon. Yeah, I outsource all my wine buying to WA. Good 'ol Jay, he knows about the Hunter Valley, and Seppelts different vineyards in the Grampians, what Wynns have done with their Coonawarra vineyards...

exactly why listen to WA when you have Auswine Forum??

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:47 am

Craig(NZ) wrote:
I reckon. Yeah, I outsource all my wine buying to WA. Good 'ol Jay, he knows about the Hunter Valley, and Seppelts different vineyards in the Grampians, what Wynns have done with their Coonawarra vineyards...

exactly why listen to WA when you have Auswine Forum??

Probably for the same reason that I don't limit myself to the eBob Forum, or any other wine forum.

While I trust my own palate more than anyone else, I also don't see any reason why I (or anyone else) shouldn't be interested in the diversity of opinions and discussions on wine from all quarters.

Mike

Bick · Post by **Bick** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:55 am

Ian S wrote:Today I'm releasing scores on various fruits

Apples - 95 points
Kumquats - 87 points
Cherries - 91 points
Tomatoes - 85 points
Pears - 98 points

These scores are for the 07 fruitage presumably Ian? I tend to agree - I thought 06 cherries were better, and rated them 95 on release. Didn't age well though - I'll be sticking to GM from hereon...

Jay60A · Post by **Jay60A** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:02 am

KMP wrote:
Craig(NZ) wrote:
I reckon. Yeah, I outsource all my wine buying to WA. Good 'ol Jay, he knows about the Hunter Valley, and Seppelts different vineyards in the Grampians, what Wynns have done with their Coonawarra vineyards...

exactly why listen to WA when you have Auswine Forum??

Probably for the same reason that I don't limit myself to the eBob Forum, or any other wine forum.

While I trust my own palate more than anyone else, I also don't see any reason why I (or anyone else) shouldn't be interested in the diversity of opinions and discussions on wine from all quarters.

Mike

Yeah, I do actually ... except for Hunter ... oops another Jay

.
Craig, stop stirring :wink:

. Why listen to Auswine forum when we have kiwiwinefanclub TNs to guide (nay, warp) our thinking?
The "ausfruitforum". Has a nice ring to it ...

Jay

GRB · Post by **GRB** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:47 am

Ian S wrote:
TORB wrote:Gavin (and you guys) have to be careful here. If you post a heap of scores it could be seen as a copyright violation.

Or pretty sad...

Today I'm releasing scores on various fruits

Apples - 95 points
Kumquats - 87 points
Cherries - 91 points
Tomatoes - 85 points
Pears - 98 points

but by now my loyal fans will have emptied the shelves of Pears (you might be able to get the odd apple if you're quick)

So does that mean I don't like Kumquats and hate tomatoes now :shock:

I am off to corner the pear market then :twisted:

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:57 am

Why listen to Auswine forum when we have kiwiwinefanclub TNs to guide (nay, warp) our thinking?

the word is brainwash :lol:

Jay60A · Post by **Jay60A** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:26 am

Craig,

Have you tried this?
http://www.gmon.com/tech/output.shtml

Try the "extra silly" option ...
"Fun but lacking in character Rose. Starts with ketchup, longingly elegant toothpaste and light rancid pork. Drink now through never."

I reckon somewhere out there was a special version for SA shiraz with adjectives like "monstrous", "full-throttle", "pain grille" etc. There was a rumour last years version had a 'bot to read back labels from producers websites.

Keep up the anti-brainwashing btw. Society needs it ...

Cheers -- Jay

El Josho · Post by **El Josho** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:38 am

Personally, I thought that 06 Cherries where very reminiscent of stone fruits and vibrant cherry flavour. I have a heap of them in storage in the fridge and am very keen to see how they develop over time.

Anyone got any TN's on how the apples are shaping up?[/quote]

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:51 am

Have you tried this?
http://www.gmon.com/tech/output.shtml

Give all my secrets away.

Do you want a note for the 2008 Te Mata Coleraine?? I could write a tasting not now on it before I try it, before its off the vines even!

Wayno · Post by **Wayno** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:14 am

El Josho wrote:Personally, I thought that 06 Cherries where very reminiscent of stone fruits and vibrant cherry flavour. I have a heap of them in storage in the fridge and am very keen to see how they develop over time.

Anyone got any TN's on how the apples are shaping up?

[/quote]

My 07 toast over breakfast has the alluring aroma of 'pain grille' at that!

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:17 am

My 07 toast over breakfast has the alluring aroma of 'pain grille' at that!

and a finish that lasts for 89.5 seconds??

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:42 am

KMP wrote:Probably for the same reason that I don't limit myself to the eBob Forum, or any other wine forum.

While I trust my own palate more than anyone else, I also don't see any reason why I (or anyone else) shouldn't be interested in the diversity of opinions and discussions on wine from all quarters.
Mike

I don't disagree, it's just the breathless sense of anticipation because it's 'Wine Advocate' that I find funny. Quick! What got a hundred points? Is it all on-line now? Or do I have to wait another three and a half hours? Ohhhh, desperate, urgent, rush, hurry!
On eBob itself, it's par for the course, naturally. Just looks a bit funny seeing the same thing on Auswine.
Lots of critics' opinions get chewed over here. But without the same frenzied atmosphere...
cheers,
Graeme

tonsta · Post by **tonsta** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:04 pm

GraemeG wrote:Lots of critics' opinions get chewed over here. But without the same frenzied atmosphere...

I remember there being plenty of discussion on this forum when the latest JH Wine Companion came out, particularly around the '04 Bremeton Old Adam and '02 Grange.

For what its worth, I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing something that only came out yesterday, it's not like this thread has been going for a month!

Tony

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:37 pm

I don't disagree, it's just the breathless sense of anticipation because it's 'Wine Advocate' that I find funny. Quick! What got a hundred points? Is it all on-line now? Or do I have to wait another three and a half hours? Ohhhh, desperate, urgent, rush, hurry!

Yes people please be calm, I know kwfc wines of the year are soon to be released but please REMAIN CALM, do not attempt to hack into my computer or bypass the barbed wire fence.

im with graeme, all the hype and desperation shows the maturity of a lemming

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:08 pm

tonsta wrote:I remember there being plenty of discussion on this forum when the latest JH Wine Companion came out, particularly around the '04 Bremeton Old Adam and '02 Grange.

For what its worth, I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing something that only came out yesterday, it's not like this thread has been going for a month!
Tony

I went back and hunted up those threads! Mostly newbies chasing a holy grail. The bulk of the discussion was amongst the older hands with their eyebrows raised.
Which, I guess, isn't much different to most of the responses (now!) on this one!
Graeme

Wayno · Post by **Wayno** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:14 pm

Craig(NZ) wrote:
I don't disagree, it's just the breathless sense of anticipation because it's 'Wine Advocate' that I find funny. Quick! What got a hundred points? Is it all on-line now? Or do I have to wait another three and a half hours? Ohhhh, desperate, urgent, rush, hurry!

Yes people please be calm, I know kwfc wines of the year are soon to be released but please REMAIN CALM, do not attempt to hack into my computer or bypass the barbed wire fence.

im with graeme, all the hype and desperation shows the maturity of a lemming

Second that.

Brucer · Post by **Brucer** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:30 pm

The thing I find interesting, is when I pull one of those high scoreing wines from the cellar, I often wonder what they tasted, and if its exactly the same as what I am tasting, cause what I am tasting is surely not a 100 point wine in my book.
But, wine is funny! It does not follow the rules, especially with ageing!
Bruce

tonsta · Post by **tonsta** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:48 pm

I presume that the issue for many of you 'oldies' (if I may use that term) is with TWA and Parker and not with ratings in general. There are good supporters of this site who rate wines on their own websites, but everyone leaves them to what they do best, which is giving an opinion of a wine from their perspective.

Further, for people like me who are not working in or directly associated with the wine industry - and therefore don't get to try (free) 'samples' on a regular basis - ratings are a good, albeit sometimes biased, way of picking the good ones from the bad ones, particularly with some wines costing upwards of $100.

I appreciate that tastes differ from person to person, and that some may disagree with Parker and his 2IC, but what makes their opinion any less relevant than yours or mine? So why shouldn't we be able to discuss their views openly?

I may be a 'newbie' but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy wine (and wine discussion) any less. And for me at least, looking at points and reviews hasn't got anything to do with chasing a holy grail, I just like hearing what others think of a wine, whether it be Parker, GW or anyone on this forum.

Tony

Mike Hawkins · Post by **Mike Hawkins** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:49 pm

Graeme,

While you make some valid points, you overlook some obvious considerations.... (1) What if 'Bob' and 'Jay''s palate preferences are the same as mine (they're not), wouldn't it be best to be guided by their ratings ? (2) while many of these wines may well have been on the shelf for some time, perhaps I may not have wanted to drop $50 or $100 per bottle to find out if I liked that particular wine. Not everyone can get to CD or have a local retialer who opens the better stuff (in NY we rarely see Aussie wines on tasting - its always the frog stuff) to taste, hence 'informed' opinions are vital.

Just my two bobs worth....

Mike

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:10 pm

There are good supporters of this site who rate wines on their own websites, but everyone leaves them to what they do best, which is giving an opinion of a wine from their perspective.

Yes but there is one real simple difference here. I rate out of 109 which is a superior rating system. Parker is faulty as he uses just a lowly 100 point system. 100 isnt even a prime number for goodness sake!!!! :lol:

.

Peter NZ · Post by **Peter NZ** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:45 pm

I subscribe to ebob mainly to get some insights into France & Italy, much of which is otherwise a mystery to me, & certainly not for the Aus (or heaven help me, the NZ) reviews.

Interested though on a quick glance at the Penfolds scores (all '04s): 91 for Koonunga Hill, 90 for Bin 28 & 84 for Bin 128 ...

Cheers
Peter

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:37 pm

Interested though on a quick glance at the Penfolds scores (all '04s): 91 for Koonunga Hill, 90 for Bin 28 & 84 for Bin 128 ...