Thoughts on Tim Adams Aberfeldy Shiraz 2001??

[mkcoleman]

Has anyone tried the Aberfeldy Shiraz 2001 recently? If so then any TN's appreciated

The reason for the question is that a local bottle shop in Sydney are selling the 2001 vintage at the mo ($40-$45 I think), so just wondered whether or not it warranted a purchase? I see JO rated it 95, vs the 2002 of 97 (I think he says in his blurb about Tim Adams that he thinks it is one of the most underated premium shiraz's ... or something like that

Also via the search tool I did see that it is something that TORB, RB and a few others buy regulary

Any thoughts appreciated.

Cheers and a good weekend to all

[beef]

Can't speak to the quality of the wine (from that vintage), but Aberfeldy is traditionally very cheap (relative to RRP) on Langtons.

Caveat emptor, however. I've had some bad experiences with Aberfeldy from auction. I don't think it's the sort of wine which is very tolerant of poor cellaring conditions.

Stuart

[n4sir]

This tested the memory - I last tried it four years ago on release:

Some soapy characters in common with a few of the 2001s I’ve tried opened the bouquet (a sign of just being bottled?). After working on it a while, these disappeared, and the wine closed up. Very reserved framework of blackberries, with hints of blueberry, without much sign of the ample time in American oak. A bit lighter in style and colour than I expected for the price, but maybe needs time to bring out its best.

Aberfeldy is consistently good, but the things that stuck out with the 2001 was the relatively clear colour (even compared to the 2003) and style, which makes me now suspect it could be a shorter term proposition - the 2002 & 2003 were far more fleshy & exotic at that same stage, and while I haven't tried the 2004 I've heard nothing but good things about it.

If you're looking for a slightly more advanced & lighter vintage to try right now it may be worth a go, but if you're after something a bit more solid with some cellar potential I'd pay the extra $5-10 and seek out the 2004 vintage.

Cheers,
Ian

[steeley]

Thread deleted

[griff]

The aberfeldy is an occasionally fantastic yet inconsistently good drop but what can you do when you purchase most of the fruit you make wine from?

Simply illogical.

[Davo]

The aberfeldy is an occasionally fantastic yet inconsistently good drop but what can you do when you purchase most of the fruit you make wine from?

Yeah, like Grange

[Nayan]

The aberfeldy is an occasionally fantastic yet inconsistently good drop but what can you do when you purchase most of the fruit you make wine from?

Yeah, like Grange

Many a truer word said in jest...

[TORB]

The aberfeldy is an occasionally fantastic yet inconsistently good drop but what can you do when you purchase most of the fruit you make wine from?

This is absolute rubbish.

The Aberfeldy comes from the same vineyard every year (right next to Wendouree) and whilst I can't remember the exact relationship between Tim and the grower (he told me years ago) it was either something like his in-laws or a joint venture deal.

Based on my experience, and I have tried and drunk many vintages of this wine, I would say it is one of the most consistent wines made in not only Clare, but in Oz today.

I have the 2001 listed to try in 2009.

[steeley]

The aberfeldy is an occasionally fantastic yet inconsistently good drop but what can you do when you purchase most of the fruit you make wine from?

This is absolute rubbish.

The Aberfeldy comes from the same vineyard every year (right next to Wendouree) and whilst I can't remember the exact relationship between Tim and the grower (he told me years ago) it was either something like his in-laws or a joint venture deal.

Based on my experience, and I have tried and drunk many vintages of this wine, I would say it is one of the most consistent wines made in not only Clare, but in Oz today.

I have the 2001 listed to try in 2009.

What I meant by my ramblings above was that usually it is a very decent wine and ocassionally outsanding, but for me it doesn't produce the outstanding results often enough to warrant frothing about the wine, as many of the people on this forum do from time to time.

Anyway hope you enjoy the wine in 2009!

[Ian S]

The aberfeldy is an occasionally fantastic yet inconsistently good drop but what can you do when you purchase most of the fruit you make wine from?

What I meant by my ramblings above was that usually it is a very decent wine and ocassionally outsanding, but for me it doesn't produce the outstanding results often enough to warrant frothing about the wine, as many of the people on this forum do from time to time.

Anyway hope you enjoy the wine in 2009!

So do we take it you wish to remove the reference to them purchasing most of the fruit for this wine?

Also not sure you're being fair in describing personal tasting notes, posted for the interest of the community as 'frothing' - I just had a read back through some of them and don't think your comment appropriate.

regards

Ian

[steeley]

To all of those who doubt the fact that the grapes for this wine are purchased, please read below which was taken directly from the Tim Adams website

It couldnt be clearer really

The Aberfeldy

We regard it as our greatest winemaking privilege to have regular, long-term access to this unique vineyard which so succinctly encapsulates and concentrates everything that’s good about Clare Valley shiraz.

The Aberfeldy Vineyard was established in 1904 by the Birks family, of Wendouree fame, about five kilometres south-east of Clare township on a site nestled at the bottom of the easternmost hills of the Clare Valley.

Many of the shiraz vines planted by A.P. Birks and his brother William are still bearing fruit and it’s those gnarled centurions that give our Aberfeldy Shiraz its enormous depth and strength of flavour.

We were lucky, really, to get our hands on the fruit. In the mid-1980s there wasn’t much demand for shiraz grapes and when we approached the owner, Claude Nicholas, he waved a copy of The Bible above his head and declared ‘God has sent you to buy our fruit’. From that day on, we’ve always referred to him as ‘Praise the Lord Claude’.

We ended up buying the 1985 Aberfeldy Vineyard harvest for $280 a tonne and did the same in 1986 and ’87.

When the current owners bought the property in 1987, we approached them to see if we wanted the fruit on a long-term basis. They agreed, and the security of the arrangement gave us the confidence to create The Aberfeldy label and use it as our flagship wine. Jim McDowell and his partner Anne continue to provide us with exceptional fruit from this outstanding vineyard.

If you would like to view for your own purposes you may visit the website here:

http://www.winemedia.com.au/Tim_Adams_W ... frame.html

Cheers

[Red Bigot]

Maybe you should have read that before you trashed the wine for being inconsistent because it's made from bought-in fruit. Or at least read what you were writing before you posted it, unfortunately deleting the original post doesn't delete the quoted highlights.

No one has tried to deny it's from bought-in fruit, but from a consistent source, you implication that buying fruit from the same vineyard each year was a recipe for inconsistency is the issue here.

What are your favourite reds? How many of those are made from bought-in fruit? Who cares anyway, as long as the wine is good. As Ric said, the Aberfeldy is one of the most consistent wines made by anyone in Australia. It's one of the few wines I still buy almost every year, I'm happy to have some from 98-2005 in my cellar. I don't believe I've ever "frothed" about it though or seen anyone else here "froth" about it either, whatever your interpretation of "frothing" might be.

It's actually interesting to compare the Wendouree Shiraz and the Aberfeldy, made to different regimes from fruit in next-door vineyards of approximately equivalent ages. Both often very good wines and quite different in their expression of the old vine fruit, seldom ordinary.

[griff]

To all of those who doubt the fact that the grapes for this wine are purchased, please read below which was taken directly from the Tim Adams website

It couldnt be clearer really

The Aberfeldy

We regard it as our greatest winemaking privilege to have regular, long-term access to this unique vineyard which so succinctly encapsulates and concentrates everything that’s good about Clare Valley shiraz.

The Aberfeldy Vineyard was established in 1904 by the Birks family, of Wendouree fame, about five kilometres south-east of Clare township on a site nestled at the bottom of the easternmost hills of the Clare Valley.

Many of the shiraz vines planted by A.P. Birks and his brother William are still bearing fruit and it’s those gnarled centurions that give our Aberfeldy Shiraz its enormous depth and strength of flavour.

We were lucky, really, to get our hands on the fruit. In the mid-1980s there wasn’t much demand for shiraz grapes and when we approached the owner, Claude Nicholas, he waved a copy of The Bible above his head and declared ‘God has sent you to buy our fruit’. From that day on, we’ve always referred to him as ‘Praise the Lord Claude’.

We ended up buying the 1985 Aberfeldy Vineyard harvest for $280 a tonne and did the same in 1986 and ’87.

When the current owners bought the property in 1987, we approached them to see if we wanted the fruit on a long-term basis. They agreed, and the security of the arrangement gave us the confidence to create The Aberfeldy label and use it as our flagship wine. Jim McDowell and his partner Anne continue to provide us with exceptional fruit from this outstanding vineyard.

If you would like to view for your own purposes you may visit the website here:

http://www.winemedia.com.au/Tim_Adams_W ... frame.html

Cheers

Actually I have an issue with your logic from your first post. You have yet to explain how purchased fruit makes for inconsistent wine in general. I suggest that if one isn't tied to one vineyard or region even, one can even out vintage variation to a greater degree. As to whether that makes for a better wine is another story entirely of course.

As for the Aberfeldy in particular, If a vineyard is under long-term contract (and indeed since a year from inception of the winery itself) I think it makes very little difference as to whether the fruit is 'sold' by profit-share or by tonnage or if the vineyard is owned by the winery. Either way the fruit is a product of the vintage and the winemaker has the same level of input into how they want their fruit. It is quite rare for the one person to be the chief winemaker and be the full-time viticulturalist even if the vineyard is owned by the winery.

You are quite entitled to your opinion that the Aberfeldy is inconsistant. We are entitled to disagree. However, you have not answered the OP's question and if you have tried the 2001 Aberfeldy, please do the OP a favour and actually post your tasting note or impression. Until then, please refrain from replying in the manner of your first post on this thread.

Kind regards

Carl

[steeley]

Maybe you should have read that before you trashed the wine for being inconsistent because it's made from bought-in fruit. Or at least read what you were writing before you posted it, unfortunately deleting the original post doesn't delete the quoted highlights.

I never said that I hated the wine as you infer, unfortunately posting leaves you open to people replying to it!

No one has tried to deny it's from bought-in fruit, but from a consistent source, you implication that buying fruit from the same vineyard each year was a recipe for inconsistency is the issue here.

Without actually wholly owning the vineyard you are never going to have complete control over what goes on in that vineyard and funnily enough, and as a result you will never have complete control of quality, funny that....

What are your favourite reds? How many of those are made from bought-in fruit? Who cares anyway.

Apparently my opinion doesn't matter unless my name is Red Bigot or TORB or n4sir. I am sure if I did indulge the "community" with my likes and/or dislikes and you didn't agree with them they would be berated over and over again in an open forum.

I thought the whole thing about wine is that it is subject to personal opinion. But I could be wrong.

I don't believe I've ever "frothed" about it though or seen anyone else here "froth" about it either, whatever your interpretation of "frothing" might be.

"Frothing" as it was so eloquently put in a previous post, means that you really, really, really like a wine. Metaphorically speaking you salivate every time you think of the wine.

It's actually interesting to compare the Wendouree Shiraz and the Aberfeldy, made to different regimes from fruit in next-door vineyards of approximately equivalent ages. Both often very good wines and quite different in their expression of the old vine fruit, seldom ordinary.

You make it sound like I don't have the means to be able to drink and understand both of the wines that you mention above.

[TORB]

Without actually wholly owning the vineyard you are never going to have complete control over what goes on in that vineyard and funnily enough, and as a result you will never have complete control of quality, funny that....

steeley,

The vast majority of wine made in Australia today is from purchased fruit. Even Grange, 707, Meshach etc, and many of Australia's other iconic wines are made from brought in fruit. And those wines are consistent.

Over the years I have spoken to many winemakers and heaps of growers. Where there are relationships involved, especially long term ones where top money is paid for old vine, high quality fruit, the winemakers are generally very involved in the decisions made in the vineyard.

Even with young vines, when a winery like Torbreck is involved in buying expensive fruit, Dave Powell is heavily involved in the the viticultural decisions. Does that mean they have complete control? No! But they do have enough control to ensure the fruit is the way they want it, because if its not, then the relationship is dissolved and the grower has to find a new buyer.

And as we all know, experienced growers really value long term relationships.

Edit: One other thought just occurred to me. The big wineries who are making wines like Yellow Tail, Lindemans, Jacobs Creek etc, where the quantities of any one wine can be in the millions of litres, buy in the majority of the fruit for those wines. The objective is also to make those wines as consistent as possible, something they manage to do well.

Most serious wine lovers think these huge blends "lack soul" and are industrial wines, but they are consistent. So it just shows that 100% consistency is not necessarily the be all and end all in a label.

[steeley]

Actually I have an issue with your logic from your first post. You have yet to explain how purchased fruit makes for inconsistent wine in general. I suggest that if one isn't tied to one vineyard or region even, one can even out vintage variation to a greater degree. As to whether that makes for a better wine is another story entirely of course.

If a vineyard is under long-term contract (and indeed since a year from inception of the winery itself) I think it makes very little difference as to whether the fruit is 'sold' by profit-share or by tonnage or if the vineyard is owned by the winery. Either way the fruit is a product of the vintage and the winemaker has the same level of input into how they want their fruit. It is quite rare for the one person to be the chief winemaker and be the full-time viticulturalist even if the vineyard is owned by the winery.

I beg to differ griff, a winery the size of Tim Adams does have the ability to have the chief winemaker having the ability to fulfill both the winemaking side of the business while having an active interest in a viticultural capacity.

You are quite entitled to your opinion that the Aberfeldy is inconsistant. We are entitled to disagree.

Disagreement accepted

Let me also say that I am not posting here to cause disharmony or malice, rather just voicing an animated opinion.

I tried the wine over a year ago and at that stage I thought that it was slightly disjointed in terms of the palate and not to my style, this has to be considered in context as the 2001 vintage in Clare was not that fantastic considering that it came after the 2000 vintage which was sensational and 2002 which was the vintage of the century.

Having said that I think that Tim Adams made a good fist of the conditions that were given to him and his staff.

The 2001 Semillon and 2001 Cabernet are testament to his winemaking prowess/fruit selection.

In reality I do have some Aberfeldy in my personal cellar so I must like at least one aspect of the wine. Mostly 2002 + 2004, with a smattering of pre 2000 knocking about in the dungeon somewhere.

[Red Bigot]

What are your favourite reds? How many of those are made from bought-in fruit? Who cares anyway, as long as the wine is good.

Apparently my opinion doesn't matter unless my name is Red Bigot or TORB or n4sir. I am sure if I did indulge the "community" with my likes and/or dislikes and you didn't agree with them they would be berated over and over again in an open forum.

I thought the whole thing about wine is that it is subject to personal opinion. But I could be wrong.

Nice selective quoting, I've put back the missing text. There are many things about wine that are unarguably personal, but drawing a blanket correlation between bought-in fruit and highly variable quality is an arguable opinion. If you don't want to participate in the discussion I tried to start, then fine.

If you haven't noticed, Ric and I seldom post here these days due to our other wine-related interests, I don't see why though that we can't participate in clarifying a throw-away post that you obviously feel embarrassed about enough to delete.

I don't ask questions unless I'm interested in the answer, only in relation to the bought-in fruit aspect, no one will deny you the right to like any particular wine even if they don't. You can even rig the answers if you know enough about the wines and wineries. (And that's not meant to be a put-down either, in many cases you just don't know the source of the grapes, even from many of the small makers.)

It's actually interesting to compare the Wendouree Shiraz and the Aberfeldy, made to different regimes from fruit in next-door vineyards of approximately equivalent ages. Both often very good wines and quite different in their expression of the old vine fruit, seldom ordinary.

You make it sound like I don't have the means to be able to drink and understand both of the wines that you mention above.

Now you are showing signs of paranoia, how you read that into a simple statement is quite beyond my comprehension.

[Ian S]

Apparently my opinion doesn't matter unless my name is Red Bigot or TORB or n4sir. I am sure if I did indulge the "community" with my likes and/or dislikes and you didn't agree with them they would be berated over and over again in an open forum.

Trust me, opinions of all sorts matter here. It's a very open forum, moderated with ... well... moderation by Gavin.

For me you've come in with some bold comments from the off and as in real life, this can be offputting. It's more normal for new posters to be naturally cautious and circumspect when posting, so when someone arrives with a confident and strident manner, people notice and wonder 'what's this guy about?'. Maybe you're ITB (in the business) and have a very well-formed opinion about wine; maybe an enthusiast of many years standing; or someone who's got a passionate interest in the local wine industry? This background helps to give the context to your comments, so don't feel afraid to share it (in fact if you're ITB, then it's a really good idea to disclose this, for so many reasons). It's not necessary of course, with many posters remaining relatively anonymous in terms of the background they share. However the people who do this are often the quieter, shy ones who test the water in stages before feeling at ease to post freely - or some ITB, who would rather stay in the background to avoid compromise, or out of respect for the forum owner and his wine business.

So apologies if we've given you a rough ride over this. I am (as I suspect a few others are) not quite sure to make of someone that arrives with the impact you have. Feel free to put me at ease and I'll try to do the same to you.

regards

Ian

[steeley]

No worries, Ian

Can I say that I am "ITB" as you put it, and I do make several wines that you and the acolytes on this forum enjoy. I don't want to reveal too much about which winery I work for, but I currently and in the past have worked for several wineries overseas and in Australia that are well respected in the trade.

I didn't intend to create furore by expressing my opinions. But that is just the way I am, I don't see the point in mincing words.

Having said that I hope more animated discussion ensues over the course of time on all things wine. That is really the crux of this forum from my point of view!

Cheers

[Ian S]

Steeley
Thanks for posting back.

IMO I can understand your desire to retain anonymity and can respect it. Confirming you're ITB is good though. All I'd add is that as long as you'd be comfortable with the comments you make if it ever did come out who you are/work for, then the anonymity is cool by me.

To put this in context, I'd first and foremost recommend not commenting on your own wines, which would be an abuse of the anonymity. Anything after that you'll judge fine by yourself and you don't need me to practice my patronising skills

What are your interests outside of Clare Valley & Aussie wines in general? For me Italy holds great interest, France less so, but there's decent pockets of interest. Spain is largely undiscovered for me, ditto Portugal and the US is generally out of my price range (though Ridge and a couple of others hold interest). I've plenty of interest in NZ and over the last 2-3 years have developed some interest in German Rieslings. Chateau Musar is a long standing favourite, and I guess I'd expect winemakers to have more extreme views than the rest of us over this most contentious of wines. Feel free to fire away an opinion on that wine. There are forumites from NZ, US, UK and Asia as well as folk that either travel a lot or who are temporarily based overseas. Whilst the focus here is (rightly) on Aussie wines, there's been genuine interest in some of the overseas TN's posted here.

Anyway - a belated welcome

regards

Ian

[steeley]

When I think about Chateau Musar, I always think why didnt I buy a bottle of Chateau Kefraya to put it up against, I actually really like both of these wines and what I really liked last year was the fact that the owners of these wineries in Lebanon managed to get the Israelis to stop bombing the crap out of them for a period long enough to let them pick their grapes!

At the moment I have an avid interest in the wines of Greece especially the whites from Santorini.

Also Austrian wines are getting me excited at the moment, the Sauvignons from Styria are as good or better than a lot of Kiwi numbers at the same price.

Ridge is amazing for US, I was astounded to find out that they give the Montebello 100% new American Oak, amazing for a wine that is more Bordeaux-like than alot of Bordeaux!

I will always be a sucker for wines from the Southern Rhone, but in France the wines that most take my fancy are the wines coming out of the Jura and the South West.

Argentian Malbec is pretty sensational, coupled with a pretty decent attempt at Shiraz by some winery in Brazil that was my tipple of choice when I found it while I was shopping in France.

[Ian S]

Wow! Brazilian Shiraz kudos for having an open mind to buy it and drink it (and indeed enjoy it).

[Pamela Dyson-Harvey]

I have just bought a bottle of 2004 Aberfeldy here in UK for £25 - about $60. Can anyone tell me how much it is selling for in Australia? Tim Adams don't have any cellar door prices on their website, but I imagine they must do cellar door. We are moving back to Oz (Mclaren Vale) soon, after 20 years in UK.
Had a bottle of The Fergus with dinner last night - very much enjoyed, with duck. Tomorrow night it's the Aberfeldy's turn - with Welsh Black beef - we are expecting great things......
Yours in red
Pamela

[TORB]

Pamela,

It's $40 plus freight to mailing list customers. Normal retail is $50.

[Pamela Dyson-Harvey]

Thankyou Ric
I notice you are from Bowral - do you by any chance know our good friend Henry Walker? He lives in Bowral, and is a great wine lover and big collector of fine wines.
Yours in red
Pamela

[vinum]

so much contention...

to save confusion, I too am ITB, however I think the discussion may be a little closer to home for me. I neither work for Tim or for the owners of Aberfeldy, but would like to point out, this vineyard is exceptionally maintained and the fruit quality would be representative of some of the best in Clare (I am however open to opinions of those who differ in opinion). This should be independent of the fact of who owns this particular vineyard.

Aside from this, at 1000 tonnes, I know I would struggle maintaining viticultural input, winemaking duties and then keep turning the marketing machine, which is also just as grueling.

Cheers
Colin.

[chuckles]

Dear Colin

I am not ITB but I do like to think that I can spot a good wine when I see it.

I think that the Aberfeldy is an ok wine, but I recently tried a wine from a little clare valley winery that most probably havent heard of, I think it was called Adelina and their Shiraz was mindblowing, much better than the Aberfeldy I had.

Having said that the Adelina was a 2005 and the wine I compared it to was a 2001 Aberfeldy.

Whoever makes that Adelina stuff should pat themselves on the back.

[TORB]

Colin,

I wouldn't for one second think you were responsible for spam, but it looks like "Chuckles " is trying to give a winemaker by the name of "Colin" a plug.

[Red Bigot]

Colin must be OK, he seems to have the right hair style...

http://www.someyoungpunks.com.au/the%20suspects.html

Pity the Order From link doesn't seem to work and the latest newsletter is April 2005.

[vinum]

Colin,

I wouldn't for one second think you were responsible for spam, but it looks like "Chuckles " is trying to give a winemaker by the name of "Colin" a plug.

It certainly looks that way doesn't it Ric. For fear of speculation, I'll refrain from further contribution to this thread. With the exception of noting, that I have been sporting that haircut for a number of years, and enjoyed the windswept look it offers.

Cheers
Colin.