Kiwi Pn's - too much oak

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:43 pm

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=300425
was the most expensive

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=300647
was middle of the road and the common denominator:
overoaking of the biblical proportions.

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:01 pm

I would humbly suggest that you are not very good at differentiating the difference between oak, reduction and fruit...
GW

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:03 pm

hmm i quite like that 05 mt difficulty, so do many i know.

give them some cellar age. so many people judge nz pinot wen its been 5 minutes released. most nz pinot improves substantially with 3 or 4 years age on it

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:05 pm

I like it too. Very good wine.
GW

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:07 pm

Sample size of 2 is not great to pronounce all kiwi PN overoaked.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:39 pm

we all know that good pinot is common, great pinot is a needle in a haystack

this is the case in any country

i just get amused that many overseas critics seem only to try new releases and judge before its had any time to integrate

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:19 am

Craig(NZ) wrote:hmm i quite like that 05 mt difficulty, so do many i know.

give them some cellar age. so many people judge nz pinot wen its been 5 minutes released. most nz pinot improves substantially with 3 or 4 years age on it

Craig,
I can't cellar wine in the restaurant, or buy what they don't have.

The number of people who like XYZ wine is irrelevant to you, me or anybody with the mind of his/her own.

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:24 am

Gary W wrote:I would humbly suggest that you are not very good at differentiating the difference between oak, reduction and fruit...
GW

Gary,
one day it will occur to you:
if one doesn't like something you do,
it doesn't make him/her less "differentiator" than you are.

Have patience, the day is coming, give it about 15 years.

SueNZ · Post by **SueNZ** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:14 am

Serge Birbrair wrote:http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=300425
was the most expensive

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=300647
was middle of the road and the common denominator:
overoaking of the biblical proportions.

Serge - how about putting the wine names in as well as the link!!! Actually why not just summarise here.

Yes, after tasting 42 odd pinots in the weekend, I will agree that some have too much oak - and too much tannin as well.

As for the particular wines you mention - with Mt Difficulty tasted Nov last year I picked up vanillin oak but the opulent fruit does soak up the oak and give it a year, you will hardly notice it. Did you notice the gorgeously silky tannin structure of this wine by any chance? Give the package time to unfold.

Montana is made in a very commercial style from NZ's biggest producer of pinot noir, but oak splinters???? Not in the sample I tasted.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:16 am

Craig,
I can't cellar wine in the restaurant, or buy what they don't have.

The number of people who like XYZ wine is irrelevant to you, me or anybody with the mind of his/her own.

ask for the cellar list serge, go on splash out :lol:

couldnt agree more, however some writers tend to set themselves up as an authority on nz pinot (or any other style you care to name) when all they seem to have tried are a few new releases.

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:31 am

deleted

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:40 am

Montana is made in a very commercial style from NZ's biggest producer of pinot noir, but oak splinters???? Not in the sample I tasted.

can be average, but ive had some older vintages 99, 00 with age on them and they actually turn out pretty good!

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:12 am

SueNZ wrote:
Serge Birbrair wrote:http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=300425
was the most expensive

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=300647
was middle of the road and the common denominator:
overoaking of the biblical proportions.

Serge - how about putting the wine names in as well as the link!!! Actually why not just summarise here.

Yes, after tasting 42 odd pinots in the weekend, I will agree that some have too much oak - and too much tannin as well.

As for the particular wines you mention - with Mt Difficulty tasted Nov last year I picked up vanillin oak but the opulent fruit does soak up the oak and give it a year, you will hardly notice it. Did you notice the gorgeously silky tannin structure of this wine by any chance? Give the package time to unfold.

Montana is made in a very commercial style from NZ's biggest producer of pinot noir, but oak splinters???? Not in the sample I tasted.

Craig(NZ) wrote:
Craig,
I can't cellar wine in the restaurant, or buy what they don't have.

The number of people who like XYZ wine is irrelevant to you, me or anybody with the mind of his/her own.

ask for the cellar list serge, go on splash out

couldnt agree more, however some writers tend to set themselves up as an authority on nz pinot (or any other style you care to name) when all they seem to have tried are a few new releases.

tried 7 more PN's yesterday,
going on the winery tour today,
will report later.
Found a few real gems in 2004 "tough" Central Otago vintage,
one was so good (no oak noticable at all) that it was completely sold out at the tasting room.
Names of the wines I have on my camera, will post later.

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:19 pm

We found 2 wines we clearly like, like enough to BUY

#1 Amisfield, 04 and 05 is even better
(Pinot Noir)

#2 Waitiri Creek, 05 Pinot Noir

Craig,
I'll check the schedule and get back to you,
19th or 20th might be better for us

roughred · Post by **roughred** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:35 pm

Miracles can happen...I agree with Serge.

Amisfield and Waitiri Creek were the two that I liked enough to purchase when there a few weeks back.

What I expect from CO Pinot, plush and flavoursome without being worked over, or over oaked.

LL

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:44 pm

roughred wrote:
What I expect from CO Pinot, plush and flavoursome without being worked over, or over oaked.

LL

you nailed them.

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:47 pm

roughred wrote:Miracles can happen...I agree with Serge.

don't get comphy.....

Sign at Bungee Jump stand:

Free Bungee Jumps for Australians.

NO STRINGS ATTACHED

J · Post by J » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:02 am

I have just bought a case of
Kuwarau Reserve 05
Mount Michael Bessies Block 05
Carrick 04
Wooing Tree 05
I didn't find any of these to be massively overoaked. More inbalance with the beautiful fruit that CO is known for with a nice toasty finish.
Is it possible that Serge you are particularly sensitive to oak as some people are to brett? Or is it a consensus with the people you drink with?
Have you tried the above wines out of curiosity? I will have to try the MD 05 when released in Perth.
J

SueNZ · Post by **SueNZ** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:21 pm

Some lovely wines there, J.

J · Post by J » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:45 am

Sue,
Blown away by how good they are. Distribution is a bit of a problem on the westcoast for the smaller wines. Got them sent from NZ by otago wine. Really nice to see some diiferent stuff and some current release stuff. Have only been into CO PN for a couple of years as prior to that drinking mostly Burg or Oz PN but now a huge fan. Apparently hasn't been a great vintage last few years so I can't wait to see what they can do with a ripper vintage and a bit of vine age.
J

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:16 pm

J wrote:I have just bought a case of
Kuwarau Reserve 05
Mount Michael Bessies Block 05
Carrick 04
Wooing Tree 05
I didn't find any of these to be massively overoaked. More inbalance with the beautiful fruit that CO is known for with a nice toasty finish.
Is it possible that Serge you are particularly sensitive to oak as some people are to brett? Or is it a consensus with the people you drink with?
Have you tried the above wines out of curiosity? I will have to try the MD 05 when released in Perth.
J

J,
I haven't tried the wines you suggested, thus can't comment on them.
I am less sensitive to oak than my wife who grew up near wood mill in Oregon

Anyway,
I found Sav Blancs to be one of the best I ever tried anywhere, so this is what I'll be sticking to when I get home.

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Kiwi Pn's - too much oak

Kiwi Pn's - too much oak

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