Wines sold as rare may be fake

The place on the web to chat about wine, Australian wines, or any other wines for that matter
Post Reply
monkeyboy
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 5:43 pm
Location: Melbourne

Wines sold as rare may be fake

Post by monkeyboy »

This article caught my eye and thought a few here might find it interesting.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Federal prosecutors and FBI's art-fraud unit look into alleged fraud in the sale of bogus bottles, newspaper says.

March 6 2007: 8:06 AM EST

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Federal prosecutors looking into allegations of counterfeit wine sales have sent subpoenas to rare-wine collectors and to some of the world's leading auction houses, including Christie's in London and Zachys in New York, according to a published report.

The Wall Street Journal reports that the art-fraud unit of the Federal Bureau of Investigation also is involved in the probe and has conducted interviews.

The paper reports that if the auction houses, collectors or importers knowingly sold counterfeit wines even when they had doubts about their authenticity, those sales could be prosecuted under federal fraud statutes.

Officials at the auction houses told the paper they go to great lengths to ensure the authenticity of the bottles they sell.

"We piece together the history of each bottle of wine, its provenance, ownership and appearance," Richard Brierley, wine auctioneer at Christie's, told the Journal.

The rise in prices has increased the incentive of some to try to sell counterfeit wines, he said.

"In the past, it was only the most rare vintages. But with more wines falling into the $1,000-plus category, there is more opportunity in counterfeiting," he told the paper.

The paper reports whether auction houses and merchants can be held liable for counterfeits provided to them by others could be a big issue in any prosecution arising from the federal probe.

William Koch, president of closely held Oxbow Corp., has also brought civil suits alleging that a German wine merchant, Hardy Rodenstock, forged bottles of wine he claimed had belonged to Thomas Jefferson. The paper reports that Rodenstock denied the claims and deflected responsibility to the merchants who sold them directly to Koch.

Mahmoud Ali
Posts: 2954
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Post by Mahmoud Ali »

In the November issue of Decanter magazine Serena Sutcliffe MW, head of wines at Southby's, said the the problem of fake wines is "far more widespread than people realise." In the 2007 edition of Wine Report edited by Tom Stevenson she goes on to say "The burgeoning mystery of the fine wine world is the unprecedented availability of great old wines and their ability to taste increasingly young."

Serena Sutcliffe argues that in the past the old bottlings were extremely rare and usually came up for auction in estate sales whereas today they seem commonplace. She argues that genuine older wines are light-textured and ethereal, often volatile and mushroomy. The altered wines are usually deemed by tasters to be "amazingly youthfull."

Given the price that some of these trophy wine fetch at auction it doesn't surprise me that many of them might be fake. A few years ago Wine Spectator ran an article about fake wines. In the article somelliers discussed what wines they could blend in order to replicate specific older wines. It made for fascinating reading.

There are wineries in Australia that will not give out labels of their premium wines unless they have 'sample' written across it. I was told that it was to prevent counterfeit wines. So, is there a problem with fake wines here?

Cheers...........Mahmoud

Ian S
Posts: 2696
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:21 am
Location: Norwich, England

Post by Ian S »

A friend whose business is buying and selling old wines, reckons it's an important skill to have to spot the fakes. He didn't give the impression it was widespread, but he'd seen enough to make a point of acquiring a good recollection of what each bottle/label looked like for the really pricey wines.

GraemeG
Posts: 1737
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:53 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by GraemeG »

As mentioned on a number of other fora, the widespread merchant bottlings of the great Bordeaux classics for much of the 20th century makes the genuine article something of a minefield to validate. Rodenstock always sounded like a bit of a dodgy spiv to me (all 3rd hand reports in the public domain) and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he turned out to have a touch of Christopher Skase about him...
cheers,
Graeme

User avatar
n4sir
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:53 pm
Location: Adelaide

Post by n4sir »

Mahmoud Ali wrote:There are wineries in Australia that will not give out labels of their premium wines unless they have 'sample' written across it. I was told that it was to prevent counterfeit wines. So, is there a problem with fake wines here?

Cheers...........Mahmoud


Not much really has surfaced here, but then I guess we're a relatively young producer on a worldwide scale and the prices of many Australian wines are relatively cheap in that sense, so counterfeiting isn't as profitable (compared to what top old Bordeaux/Burgundy sell at for example). I think Jamie HK said something about suspect bottles of Bordeaux appearing from China last year, which would be more along the lines of what they're talking about.

The major exception here would be the 1990 St Henri fiasco that was exposed a few years ago. I also heard someone from Penfolds a couple of years ago remark that there were an amazing number of reported complete collections of Grange considering they were sure there were less than two dozen 1951s left in existence (of which they had three).

I should also add that measures like Mark Wickman have introduced (determining the provenance of bottles and passing that information on to buyers at auction) could actually have the positive side effect of reducing these sorts of forgeries slipping though too.

Cheers,
Ian
Forget about goodness and mercy, they're gone.

GraemeG
Posts: 1737
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:53 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by GraemeG »

n4sir wrote:The major exception here would be the 1990 St Henri fiasco that was exposed a few years ago. I also heard someone from Penfolds a couple of years ago remark that there were an amazing number of reported complete collections of Grange considering they were sure there were less than two dozen 1951s left in existence (of which they had three).
Cheers,
Ian

I have one of the fake St Henri's - it was a '92, of all years. I suspect that fraud was an opportunistic one pulled by someone who found themselves with access to QA-rejected labels (who'd fake '92 after all?) and proceeded to relabel Rawsons Retreat - for the authentic capsule!

How would they know how many 51s are left anyway? Pretty well all of them will have found their way into 'sets' y now, I'd imagine. And anyway, some of these sets have doubtless been sold many times over. Probably be harder getting hold of 54 or 56 these days...
Admittedly, though, with the range of bottles and labels used back then these would have to be pretty easy wines to fake and get away with. The prices these days might make it worthwhile, too.
cheers,
Graeme

User avatar
markg
Posts: 1313
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 5:25 pm
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Post by markg »

A little bit of info you may be interested in with regards to fake Penfolds wines:

* Only 1 x Grange is known to have been counterfeit and that was the 1990 vintage. It had a number of obvious tell tales like spelling errors on the label and colour of the bar code.

* The St. Henri involved were the 1984, 1990 and 1992 vintages and the various discrepancies are wrong size bottle, wrong capsule, printing discrepancies on the label and the wrong manufacturer number on the bottle.

There is also an interesting story about 1973 Granges with red capsules that have NOT been cliniced and are the real deal.
Cheers
-Mark Wickman

WICKMAN'S FINE WINE AUCTIONS
FREE membership, LOWEST auction commissions in Australia.
Now accepting wine for our next auction.
http://www.wickman.net.au

Twitter: @WickWine
YouTube: WickWineAuction

monkeyboy
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 5:43 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by monkeyboy »

Hi Mark,

73 being my birth year and having this bottle of Grange tucked away, the story sounds quite intriguing. Please tell.

cheers

Ant

User avatar
n4sir
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:53 pm
Location: Adelaide

Post by n4sir »

monkeyboy wrote:Hi Mark,

73 being my birth year and having this bottle of Grange tucked away, the story sounds quite intriguing. Please tell.

cheers
Ant


About four years ago Penfolds sold a museum release of the 1973 Grange at Magill Estate CD. I was told the bottles supposedly went through the wine clinic process, and were recapsuled with a new red Grange capsule (although it doesn't display the year in the centre like regular bottles, and the bottles never received a clinic label on the back).

I bought a bottle for my Dad's 75th from there, and on opening it looked like the cork had never been replaced. It was as though they had thought the level looked okay and had just replaced the capsule, and the wine itself was slightly oxidised/past it. I would have taken it back for a replacement/refund, but my Dad and brother were happy drinking it so I let it be.

Cheers,
Ian
Forget about goodness and mercy, they're gone.

User avatar
markg
Posts: 1313
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 5:25 pm
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Post by markg »

monkeyboy wrote:Hi Mark,

73 being my birth year and having this bottle of Grange tucked away, the story sounds quite intriguing. Please tell.

cheers

Ant


Did I say interesting? Hmmm... maybye I should get out more :roll:

Nothing earth shattering, Allegedly .. about 90 dozen unlabelled 1973's were pulled from storage and released in 1994 with a new red metal capsule (no vintage on it). It just looks strange on a Grange that you may expect to find a white capsule you find a red metal capsule and no sign of a clinic. So original, corks, fill levels etc. were kept and not filled up.
Cheers
-Mark Wickman

WICKMAN'S FINE WINE AUCTIONS
FREE membership, LOWEST auction commissions in Australia.
Now accepting wine for our next auction.
http://www.wickman.net.au

Twitter: @WickWine
YouTube: WickWineAuction

monkeyboy
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 5:43 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by monkeyboy »

n4 and mark thanks for the response.

cheers

Anthony

dzanotti
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:20 pm

Post by dzanotti »

Does anyone know about potential fake 1986 Penfolds Grange? I purchased a bottle with the label only saying "Grange" on it (not Grange Hermitage), but I thought the name change came after 1986? Any thoughts on whether it's real or fake? Fill, condition, etc all seem to be ok.

User avatar
n4sir
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:53 pm
Location: Adelaide

Post by n4sir »

dzanotti wrote:Does anyone know about potential fake 1986 Penfolds Grange? I purchased a bottle with the label only saying "Grange" on it (not Grange Hermitage), but I thought the name change came after 1986? Any thoughts on whether it's real or fake? Fill, condition, etc all seem to be ok.


That sounds very suspicious - locally "Hermitage" was dropped off the label after the 1989 vintage, so I'd expect all of the 1986 bottles would be labelled as "Grange Hermitage". Export bottles might be a different story though. Where and when did you purchase it?

Without knowing these details and seeing it my first instinct is that it could possibly a fake - if you can the best thing to do would be to call Penfolds, and take the bottle (or send the details of it, preferably with a picture) to them or one of their corking clinics for verification. Otherwise if you're interstate you could try Langtons (NSW/VIC) or Sterling Auctions (WA) - they should also be able to verify if it's genuine.

Good luck,
Ian
Forget about goodness and mercy, they're gone.

McLaren Vale Vine Doctor
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: McLaren Vale
Contact:

Hitler Wine Fake

Post by McLaren Vale Vine Doctor »

Just adding this article from last week about the fake Hitler wine... Not that anyone collects Hitler wine like Grange.

Hitler Wine Fake?
February 26, 2007

Sir Ian Kershaw, Professor of Modern History at Sheffield University, says the Hitler wine recently sold at auction may be fake. Historian Felix Pryor agrees and states that the notion of Hitler handing out wine is "utterly farcical".

Frank Litz, a specialist in Nazi memorabilia, chimes in, too, "On his 54th birthday in 1943 Hitler was trying to come to terms with the catastrophic loss of the 6th Army at Stalingrad, the bombing war on Germany and the rout of the Afrika Korps. Handing out carpetings was more the order of the day than handing out wine."

Fake or not? Who really knows? But even if it is real, £3995 is a pretty steep price to pay!

Post Reply