The Penguin Guide-or maybe not.

[underwraps50]

Does anyone have any opinions about "The Penguin good Australian Wine Guide"? I have been using this guide for about 10 years. I only drink a couple of bottles a week and never get across the incredible range of wine available these days. The Guide assists me to pick something suitable easily. The main use is to select cellaring propositions, and although I have tended to find the recommendations for cellar-time are pretty accurate, I am wondering how others find this. I generally buy only 5yrs plus to cellar & have had good results in the 5 - 15 yr range over the years. My big frustration is that the Guide isn't twice as big, as the limited range of cellaring propositions available here in the country means that I am often scratching for something at a reasonable price (circa $20.) to cellar.

[Ratcatcher]

I love the Penguin Guide. It's the best reading of all the guides. A bit sad about the reduced number of tastings last year.

I started buying/cellaring/collecting seriously after getting one of these as a birthday present. My wife can't complain about my obsession because she bought it for me.

I preferred it just split into whites/reds rather than Cab, Pinot, Merlot, Shiraz etc.

I also find my palate likes the same wines they like but mainly I just enjoy reading it.

I think their ratings and cellaring guides are pretty accurate. IMHO.

[Ian S]

My big frustration is that the Guide isn't twice as big, as the limited range of cellaring propositions available here in the country means that I am often scratching for something at a reasonable price (circa $20.) to cellar.

I feel there is some bias towards the "value" end of the market in this book and I suspect page for page, this might be the best book for what you're looking for.
It's often light and humorous, though the authors aren't lightweights themselves.
The two big alternatives would be Oliver and Halliday, with the former being more heavily focussed on a consistent (and more high-end) range of producers. Halliday has very wide coverage, but the reducing of tasting notes down to bare minimum, most noticeable at the lower end of the scale again gives more weight to the top end.

When I was in NZ I noticed a book with the title something like "Best wines under $20" - I think by Joelle Thompson. Can't recall seeing a similar book in Australia.

Of course there's always these pages and there's often an eye kept out for great cellaring bargains.

regards

Ian

[war on terroir]

on all the tours of wine areas i have made within australia, the penguin guide has been my north star.
i have found the descriptions are accurate and valid, the reviews indicate which wineries are worth a visit and therein which wines are the ones to look out for. the writing is tinted with but not tainted by the writers personal musings; and lengthy passages about the wine coming from the sunny side of the hill are not present.
it has a healthy slant towards innovation and boutique wines whilst not ignoring the great wines or the one off great vintages either.
it has been invaluable in tours of the yarra, morninton peninsula, pyrenees, margatet river, barossa valley etc. and also a big help when popping down to dan murphys.
another publication that offers a wide range of consumer orientated reviews is the epicure section of tuesdays' age, but that only covers 6 wines a week!

[underwraps50]

I concur with Ratcatcher, I don't like the current format much and find it more cumbersome than a straight reds/whites division. Even in wine shops with stock divided into varieties it is still a pain.
As an aside, a cheeky check-out girl in one of the shops said " you don't need that book - I could have told you that was a good wine" referring to the Black Chook I bought on Friday. I said "Oh, are you an expert? " she said " No, I dont even like wine much" !!!!

[Ian S]

I concur with Ratcatcher, I don't like the current format much and find it more cumbersome than a straight reds/whites division. Even in wine shops with stock divided into varieties it is still a pain.
As an aside, a cheeky check-out girl in one of the shops said " you don't need that book - I could have told you that was a good wine" referring to the Black Chook I bought on Friday. I said "Oh, are you an expert? " she said " No, I dont even like wine much" !!!!

I think she needs to work a little harder on her chat-up lines

[The Cork Dork]

The PWG is a great read each year and look forward to it's release. I have all of the books except for the very first edition (believe it or not I managed to find two copies of the wine guide in a seconds store in Port Hedland last year) so am on the hunt for it.

I don't like the current new format of the book. The publishers should put it to the way it was before, put all the reds at the front of book whites at back of book and list the wineries in alpha order. I do however, like the fact that they have left room to write notes on the book (wether intentional or not) a great read, honest, simple uncluttered notes on all wines and regulary agree with the comments from the writers.

[Ian S]

The PWG is a great read each year and look forward to it's release. I have all of the books except for the very first edition (believe it or not I managed to find two copies of the wine guide in a seconds store in Port Hedland last year) so am on the hunt for it.

I don't like the current new format of the book. The publishers should put it to the way it was before, put all the reds at the front of book whites at back of book and list the wineries in alpha order. I do however, like the fact that they have left room to write notes on the book (wether intentional or not) a great read, honest, simple uncluttered notes on all wines and regulary agree with the comments from the writers.

Try www.abebooks.com (a bit like wine-searcher for 2nd hand books). No connections etc.

[Von Ridler]

I also do not like the current format of the PWG. I preferred it when you could go to say the red section and find all the red wines pertaining to the maker under the one listing.
I have all the PWG published and it is interesting to read the initial review when you open an old bottle as I did with a 1986 John Riddoch recently.
Regards,
Ron.

[Ian S]

I also do not like the current format of the PWG. I preferred it when you could go to say the red section and find all the red wines pertaining to the maker under the one listing.
I have all the PWG published and it is interesting to read the initial review when you open an old bottle as I did with a 1986 John Riddoch recently.
Regards,
Ron.

Indeed, I agree with the other posters here. I don't go searching for interesting Merlots, I go searching for a producer. Much easier if the whole thing was in (producer) alphabetical order a la Halliday and Oliver.

[Ratcatcher]

I sent some feedback to Penguin about the format.

Does anyone know how to write directly to one of the authors?

[Craig(NZ)]

Do people really still buy wine guides after 10 years being into wine?

Isnt that like a 10 year old kid still breast feeding??

[Gary W]

Do people really still buy wine guides after 10 years being into wine?

Isnt that like a 10 year old kid still breast feeding??

Yes
and
No

It is more like being interested in finding out what has a fair chance of being a good wine without having to taste 5000+ in a year yourself.
Is there a word one level stronger than obnoxious in the dictionary?

GW

[Red Bigot]

Do people really still buy wine guides after 10 years being into wine?

Isnt that like a 10 year old kid still breast feeding??

Yes
and
No

It is more like being interested in finding out what has a fair chance of being a good wine without having to taste 5000+ in a year yourself.
Is there a word one level stronger than obnoxious in the dictionary?

GW

Only one level?

[Craig(NZ)]

It is more like being interested in finding out what has a fair chance of being a good wine without having to taste 5000+ in a year yourself.

Gary, after 10 years I could give you a list of aussie wines that have a fair chance of being good without the aid of any book. I can give you a list of wines that have a fair chance of being good in a vintages time without the aid of a book - why wait for a book to be published?? 02 Grange will be 96 or 97 points in hallidays next book.

My list would be long enough that you would run out of money before the end - why do we need 5000 recomendations? And once more I bet you could write an even longer list without aid of book?? Maybe wine books are more like teddy bears, rattles or dummies?? Comfort toys for the wine snob??

The only 10 year old wine fiends that need a book are the ones that are worried they may buy a wine that is only penguin 4.5 stars instead of 5. Nothing to do with 'fair chance'

There is a place for books, mags etc - I have bought quite a few in the past, but I think there comes a time to get out of wine nappies, attend a few cellar doors, shows, tastings and make up your own mind.

The ones I do sometimes buy guides are just the ones with maps and cellar door times etc, comes in useful keeping up with the winery a week that seems to open over here

My money runs out before I have bought every 5 star, 100 pointer, 5 glasses, 20 pointer, classic, super classic, kiora maori first growth, highly recommended, $100+, WS top 100, etc etc wine anyway. Cutting down form 5000 wines to the 4900 spineless writers recommend is hardly a shortcut. Too much kiss ass occurs

Lately I have seen fairly up to date wine guide books on clearance tables for 50c - Halliday and Joelle Thomson, didnt waste my hard earned silver.

100 points maybe more

[/quote]Is there a word one level stronger than obnoxious in the dictionary?

The old timers know me well Insightful? Honest??

[Craig(NZ)]

..

[Ratcatcher]

Craig,

I have two kids, work full time, live in Tassie and have a limited budget for wine.

I use the guide because I don't have time, money or access to cellar doors and tasting to try even dozens of wines.

I like the guides because although I know a lot of the wines that I generally like, the guides confirm if it is a good or bad vintage or whether they have come up trumps in a poor vintage and I can allocate my budget to buying a few of that wine without having to buy 10 single bottles of various wines to decide which one or two I like.

The guides also alert me to a few wines I don't know that I can experiment with buying one of to taste. I can't afford to try them all. The guides help me make a few safe buys and alert me to ines worth trying without big outlay.

[Gary W]

sigh

[GraemeG]

Do people really still buy wine guides after 10 years being into wine?

Isnt that like a 10 year old kid still breast feeding??

Ha ha ha!
Craig, I swear you're warming up for a tilt at Arpy. Not that they'd object to sucking at Parker's nipple, but man, you'd have those good ol' neo-con boys raining smart bombs down on Auckland in no time.
Stirrer!
cheers
Graeme

[Craig(NZ)]

Hmm the man with 666 postings. Better watch my mouth

Graeme you see through me too easily. Anyone that takes me seriously takes wine way too seriously

harp on like a gormless twit

I live for reactions Makes life so much more interesting and Australians seem good at biting a baited hook. Can I use that quote on my website if I properly give credit? Im thinking of putting an "about the authors" page on it to make myself seem more important than I am

C

[Ian S]

Do people really still buy wine guides after 10 years being into wine?

Isnt that like a 10 year old kid still breast feeding??

The danger with a good troll, is we can never be quite sure of your intent.

A good wine book has to be more than a set of numbers, otherwise Bradleys gold book would be eagerly awaited every year

Mostly I do like reading tasting notes and indeed tasting notes from a consistent source.

If I had tasted and bought half a dozen vintages of Stonecroft Syrah and saw a tasting note for the latest (untasted by me) vintage saying "gobs of sweet, sticky fruit and warming alcohol", then I might be more cautious of buying the wine without tasting the vintage myself. However if you read a tasting note for a winery you've not heard of, and the tasting note sounds right up your street would you:
a) Buy a bottle to try
b) See if you can get a taste of it somewhere
c) Ignore it forever because you're now aged 31 and a quarter and have recently given up "bitty"

Other features that are useful ...
- Contact details: For wine trips, query answering, websites etc. Halliday is a very useful guide

- Drinking windows: If you yourself buy the same vintage of Bass Phillip Reserve PN every year, then you're probably in a good position to estimate when to drink it. However if you "discover" Kawarau Reserve PN and realise yo like the taste, it's possible you may not be able to hazard a decent guess of when it's likely to peak. However someone with consistent expertise in this wine might be able to provide some guidance. This is not the same as telling you when you must drink it.

- Comment: People who taste many 000's of wines each year, do get a feel for trends and problems, be it cork taint, over-oaking, wine-making faults or issues with a particular vintage. This is especially so, where they limit their experience to a relatively narrow field. I might taste a dozen New Zealand wines in a year. How much do Bob C or Michael C taste? These insights into the wider market are very good and generally one of the more interesting aspects of PWG, Oliver and even Halliday.

- Maybe others get value out of food matches (I personally don't, but I don't have too many meals where I feel the wine must match, as if it's an awful match then I'll leave the wine till the end of the meal)

This was really about points though wasn't it And I'd rather no-one relied on points alone. By all means choose a high points scorer in a (judging by the tasting note) wine style that you like. If this isn't grown up, then so be it. If I'm buying by the bottle I'll happily take such gambles.

Do you have many wine books yourself?

regards

Ian

[Craig(NZ)]

Hi Ian

Yes i have a number of wine books but they are, as you say, not the 'rate em and chase em' types of books. more educational and winery details and more international. to be honest i have thrown many out. i do have a few cuisine mags which are food too. i used to buy winestate when first into wine till i realised it was a load of bollocks. Im not into the "I have no life so i will write a book about winemakers dogs" type books. Give me a break

i dont buy cooper, campbell, halliday, 'guides' etc etc. When I got into wine i bought a couple off the discount table but i dont even bother doing that anymore. Is there any info a book provides that cant be found on google??

some people get anxious at the thought they may miss the next best thing, the next craze, the next hot wine. i just dont. i dont care if i miss a few good wines, i have enough in my cellar to enjoy - not into obsessively chasing anything that isnt just a locked and loaded favourite of mine. maybe just more relaxed toward it all.

so yes buying penguin guides after being into wine for 10 years is strange to me, so i just air that point of view in my usual inflamatory way and let everyone get their knickers in a twist over it. Thats what I do best

[Red Bigot]

Do people really still buy wine guides after 10 years being into wine?

Isnt that like a 10 year old kid still breast feeding??

The danger with a good troll, is we can never be quite sure of your intent.

Ian, with Craig there is never any doubt as to his intent.

[Ian S]

Do people really still buy wine guides after 10 years being into wine?

Isnt that like a 10 year old kid still breast feeding??

The danger with a good troll, is we can never be quite sure of your intent.

Ian, with Craig there is never any doubt as to his intent.

[Ratcatcher]

The problem with trolling is it's so easy. Anyone can do it. You don't have to be a great wit.

Like that other saying, trolling is the lowest form of wit.

[underwraps50]

Thanks you Gentlemen for your wit & wisdom. (and thank you too Craig) I have actually been into wine for 40 years - I have only been using the Penguin Guide for the last 10 or so. It works a treat for me because of the mix of factors I mentioned. I have forgotten more about wine than I currently know so the Guide is a distinct assistance to my increasingly belaboured memory.

[Craig(NZ)]

underwraps dont worry about me i stir the pot at any opportunity

i have been known to thumb through them out of curiousity so i wont build the soap box to high

[TORB]

The problem with trolling is it's so easy. Anyone can do it. You don't have to be a great wit.

Ratty,

You got that half right.