Tough call. Great game. You guys can be very proud
C
NWR: Great game of football Australia. Hold your head high
NWR: Great game of football Australia. Hold your head high
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
Re: NWR: Great game of football Australia. Hold your head hi
Craig(NZ) wrote:Tough call. Great game. You guys can be very proud
C
What he said.
Tough to lose when on balance the game was heading Australia's way. Another ref conned (maybe not as bad as in Portugal/Holland), but it does spoil the event somewhat.
regards
Ian
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Michael McNally
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- Location: Brisbane
Australia played really well, as did Italy. It was a great game to watch. There should be no bitching about the ref (which last time I checked was still poor sportsmanship). 8 out of 10 refs would give that as a penalty in most games. Anyway, who knows what might have happened in extra time? Italy were by no means out of the game, we hadn't had that many clear chances and who knows with the lottery of penalties.
Great to be involved in such a fantastic game. Very, very proud of what the team achieved. Shame we couldn't hold on to Guus.
Michael
Great to be involved in such a fantastic game. Very, very proud of what the team achieved. Shame we couldn't hold on to Guus.
Michael
Bonum Vinum Laetificat Cor Hominis
Michael McNally wrote:There should be no bitching about the ref (which last time I checked was still poor sportsmanship).
Wait up!
Now, I am not a full-time follower of soccer, usually only having any interest whatsoever around World Cup time, but what I have witnessed so far of this "Great World Game" is that the referee in soccer is there to be abused, patted, touched, deceived, argued against, appealed to and cried at by the players he is supposedly controlling. I have hardly seen anything but poor sportmanship throughout this competition.
No wonder the poor bloke can't make a correct decision! He is given absolutely no support from the laws and powers of the game, and the game is much worse for it.
Adair
Wine is bottled poetry.
There should be no bitching about the ref (which last time I checked was still poor sportsmanship)
Appreciate the diplomacy of not blaming refs Michael, but no ref should ever make such a decision especially so late in the game (seconds) unless absolutely no doubt could be made that it deserved a game winning penalty. 9 out of 10 umpires IMO (and many others) would not and should not have called anything at all. I reckon the umpire was very nervous about making a bad game changing decision against Italy and in turn made it against us. Way too big a stage and consequence for a last minute blunder. I do not hold the loss solely in the hand of the umpire (at the end of the day we did‘t score) but at the same time can’t defend or justify such a ridiculous mistake
After saying that hats off to Italy and Totti. Out of this world effort by our boys and they should definitely hold their heads up high. We take away the fact that we can match it with the best teams on the planet in the most played sport on the planet. Oh yeah and by the way really enjoyed the D’Arenberg High Trellis 2004 that I scoffed during the match. Great bargain.
[/quote]
The refereering throughout the entire tournament has been really third-rate. I say this as no expert on the rules, merely an observer making comparisons. How a multi-billion$ game can make absolutle NO use of instant replay equipment, particularly in a sport where a single goal carries such weight, and can be so easily 'awarded' by a referee, is unbelievable. I don't refer only to those games Australia played in - other teams has suffered as much.
As for last night, at least for the first half, it seemed a good game. Italy always looked more likely to score than us, until the ref went and ruined the game with an incorrect sending-off. The Italians drew the wagons in a circle, making it very difficult for Australia to make much impression (have a look at how many goals have been scored against 10-man teams when scores are tied - not many!), until the ref blew another clanger, over-compensating for his earlier mistake. Only the fact that Italy seemed the better team when 'the match was on' can justify their going through.
But really, FIFA, fix your refs! (if you actually want to...)
cheers,
Graeme
As for last night, at least for the first half, it seemed a good game. Italy always looked more likely to score than us, until the ref went and ruined the game with an incorrect sending-off. The Italians drew the wagons in a circle, making it very difficult for Australia to make much impression (have a look at how many goals have been scored against 10-man teams when scores are tied - not many!), until the ref blew another clanger, over-compensating for his earlier mistake. Only the fact that Italy seemed the better team when 'the match was on' can justify their going through.
But really, FIFA, fix your refs! (if you actually want to...)
cheers,
Graeme
Matterazzi should not have been sent off.
The penalty in the last seconds of normal time should not have been awarded.
No doubt it was a gut-wrenching way to lose, particularly as we were favourites once extra time started (no doubt Hiddink would have put on 2 fresh players to stretch a tired 10 man side which had already made its 3 substitutions), and even money had it gone to penalties.
If nothing else we were robbed of an extra 30 minutes of football.
OTOH Italy (even with only 10 men) created by far the better chances to score: our preponderance of possession was not indicative of dominance, particularly given the Italian penchant for defence and quick counter-attack.
We did not possess the extra special factor to unlock the Italian defence (a fit Kewell would have helped, but a Kaka or Ronaldinho - or a Tevez or Messi would have been even better!).
It was not an unjust scoreline - but a very unjust way for it to occur.
The team did Australia proud and played a cultured and fairly skilful style of football with a good structure provided by Hiddink. There was little rough play from Australia in the scheme of things (a few agricultural fouls) and the game was played in good spirit.
The nature of football games decided by one goal is often unjust (one team can be dominant and fail to put the ball in the back of the net but the other team creates one chance and wins: think Euro 2004).
The Italian team was probably the better team on the day and inspiration /luck had saved us - particularly Schwarzer's save with his legs, and a couple of misses from almost point blank, including the early header.
Notwithstanding the first 2 sentences, the referee had a pretty good game - and far superior to
a) the English referee in the game against Croatia who had a Barry crocker: rugby tackle, 2nd hand ball, 3 yellows to one player, Kewell offside....
b) the Russian who completely lost control of the game between Portugal and Netherlands ending with 4 red cards and 16 yellows.....
c) the Egyptian who "whoopsed" in our opening match against Japan both for their goal and the foul committed by Cahilll...
d) even the referee in a brilliant Argentina - Mexico game who combined with linesmen to deny 2 good goals which were clearly ONSIDE, when in theory any benefit of doubt was decreed to be given to the attacking side....
AND THESE WERE NOT ISOLATED INCIDENTS....
Given that the referees are hooked up electronically to the linesmen (who are also allegedly topclass referees) there should be enough competence to ensure a far higher standard by the officials than has been the case.
Everyone has to accept the very occasional error but the sheer number of palpable and crucial errors has been unforgiveable - and considerably worse in number than any large tournament in my memory.
Anyway 2 potentially exciting matches tonight: Brazil against a fearless and quick Ghana should be an open fast game; yesterday's men France against the Spanish who have given new meaning to "choking" (think Greg Norman losing to Faldo, or perhaps Montgomery in the recent US Open)
and a very exciting Quarterfinal between an extremely talented Argentinian side and a German side that knows how to win...
My wife is thankful that it comes but once every 4 years ......
The penalty in the last seconds of normal time should not have been awarded.
No doubt it was a gut-wrenching way to lose, particularly as we were favourites once extra time started (no doubt Hiddink would have put on 2 fresh players to stretch a tired 10 man side which had already made its 3 substitutions), and even money had it gone to penalties.
If nothing else we were robbed of an extra 30 minutes of football.
OTOH Italy (even with only 10 men) created by far the better chances to score: our preponderance of possession was not indicative of dominance, particularly given the Italian penchant for defence and quick counter-attack.
We did not possess the extra special factor to unlock the Italian defence (a fit Kewell would have helped, but a Kaka or Ronaldinho - or a Tevez or Messi would have been even better!).
It was not an unjust scoreline - but a very unjust way for it to occur.
The team did Australia proud and played a cultured and fairly skilful style of football with a good structure provided by Hiddink. There was little rough play from Australia in the scheme of things (a few agricultural fouls) and the game was played in good spirit.
The nature of football games decided by one goal is often unjust (one team can be dominant and fail to put the ball in the back of the net but the other team creates one chance and wins: think Euro 2004).
The Italian team was probably the better team on the day and inspiration /luck had saved us - particularly Schwarzer's save with his legs, and a couple of misses from almost point blank, including the early header.
Notwithstanding the first 2 sentences, the referee had a pretty good game - and far superior to
a) the English referee in the game against Croatia who had a Barry crocker: rugby tackle, 2nd hand ball, 3 yellows to one player, Kewell offside....
b) the Russian who completely lost control of the game between Portugal and Netherlands ending with 4 red cards and 16 yellows.....
c) the Egyptian who "whoopsed" in our opening match against Japan both for their goal and the foul committed by Cahilll...
d) even the referee in a brilliant Argentina - Mexico game who combined with linesmen to deny 2 good goals which were clearly ONSIDE, when in theory any benefit of doubt was decreed to be given to the attacking side....
AND THESE WERE NOT ISOLATED INCIDENTS....
Given that the referees are hooked up electronically to the linesmen (who are also allegedly topclass referees) there should be enough competence to ensure a far higher standard by the officials than has been the case.
Everyone has to accept the very occasional error but the sheer number of palpable and crucial errors has been unforgiveable - and considerably worse in number than any large tournament in my memory.
Anyway 2 potentially exciting matches tonight: Brazil against a fearless and quick Ghana should be an open fast game; yesterday's men France against the Spanish who have given new meaning to "choking" (think Greg Norman losing to Faldo, or perhaps Montgomery in the recent US Open)
and a very exciting Quarterfinal between an extremely talented Argentinian side and a German side that knows how to win...
My wife is thankful that it comes but once every 4 years ......
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Michael McNally
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- Location: Brisbane
In the spirit of good debate....
I really don't think the timing of the decision and the match-winning nature of the decision should be influencing factors. Refrees make a judgment from their point of view (and here I am talking about distance from the ball, angle at which the action takes place, players in between etc.) as to whether a foul has been committed or not. They should not then have an internal debate about the timing of the incident, or whether it will mean certain victory for one team or another. The ref might as well walk off with 5 minutes to go and say well I can't call any fouls or free kicks now as it might determine the outcome!
As to the standard of refereeing, yes there appear to have been some poor performances, but there should be no disputing with the referee who is invariably trying to do his best. The pace of the modern game is making it more and more difficult for referees to stay up with play, let alone keep an eye on back play. Not sure video is the answer although it does provide different angles to the ref. I guess if it meant penalties weren't awarded incorrectly as often that might be of benefit, but what about the penalties that are missed?
Two final points. 1 Are Italians today bitching about the ref? (on reflection, they are probably lambasting their team for not thrashing the Australians
) 2 Focusing on the coulda, woulda, shoulda means we aren't focusing on the excellent game we played 
! Party at my place tonight!
I really don't think the timing of the decision and the match-winning nature of the decision should be influencing factors. Refrees make a judgment from their point of view (and here I am talking about distance from the ball, angle at which the action takes place, players in between etc.) as to whether a foul has been committed or not. They should not then have an internal debate about the timing of the incident, or whether it will mean certain victory for one team or another. The ref might as well walk off with 5 minutes to go and say well I can't call any fouls or free kicks now as it might determine the outcome!
As to the standard of refereeing, yes there appear to have been some poor performances, but there should be no disputing with the referee who is invariably trying to do his best. The pace of the modern game is making it more and more difficult for referees to stay up with play, let alone keep an eye on back play. Not sure video is the answer although it does provide different angles to the ref. I guess if it meant penalties weren't awarded incorrectly as often that might be of benefit, but what about the penalties that are missed?
Two final points. 1 Are Italians today bitching about the ref? (on reflection, they are probably lambasting their team for not thrashing the Australians
) 2 Focusing on the coulda, woulda, shoulda means we aren't focusing on the excellent game we played ! Party at my place tonight!Bonum Vinum Laetificat Cor Hominis
Michael McNally wrote: Refrees make a judgment from their point of view (and here I am talking about distance from the ball, angle at which the action takes place, players in between etc.) as to whether a foul has been committed or not.
Trouble is, plenty of technology exists which says they getting it wrong too much of the time. And in a way which is affecting the results of games.
The ref might as well walk off with 5 minutes to go and say well I can't call any fouls or free kicks now as it might determine the outcome!
Well, see above. We're getting to the end of the game, the 35-year-old ref's shagged because he's been chasing 22 fit 28-year-olds around the pitch for 90 minutes, and for all the myriad of TV cameras pointed at the game, not one of them is used for his benefit. Of course he's gonna screw up. Well, fix it, dear Henry.
Reading some of the blogs around the place, you'd think that some people get more joy from the game by debating the ref's wrong calls. For all the history, the 'Hand of God' is not exactly football's crowning glory, is it?
As to the standard of refereeing, yes there appear to have been some poor performances, but there should be no disputing with the referee who is invariably trying to do his best. The pace of the modern game is making it more and more difficult for referees to stay up with play, let alone keep an eye on back play. Not sure video is the answer although it does provide different angles to the ref. I guess if it meant penalties weren't awarded incorrectly as often that might be of benefit, but what about the penalties that are missed?
This is like those arguments against the screwcap. 'But there could be TCA in the winery'; 'What about storage and shipping conditions ruining wines?' Fix what you can fix now. Just because a (video) solution can't cover every eventuality is no reason to ignore it altogether. If it can fix 80% of the current mistakes, then that'll do for starters.
Don't think FIFA's really interested. Ten years ago, if you'd done a survey to find the world's most corrupt organisation, the IOC would have won, hands down. But Rogge's cleaned up the show a bit, and I rather think the crown belongs to Blatter's boys, proteges as they are of the mighty Havelange...
cheers
Graeme
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Michael McNally
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- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:06 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Davo wrote:Dirty Dago's Drammatic Dive Deprives Disappointed Diggers
I didn't know you worked for the Westralian, Davo!!
Graeme, I concur with your view that just because the applications of TV replays are limited doesn't mean we shouldn't use them. I guess I was insinuating that, forgive me. An automatic review of penalties would not take long. I think perhaps another solution needs to be found, though as they already have 4 officials I can't see what it is.
On your other point, I don't see how the obvious corruption at FIFA could influence the action of refs as the poor decisions go against the big teams too. Materrazzi's sending off could have cost the Italians the game.
Bonum Vinum Laetificat Cor Hominis
At the end of the day too many refs are just frustrated ex-players who still try and have a major impact on the game (not only soccer). I’ve played the game (and many others) for many years and feel this is a definite. If an ump is not talked about or remembered after a game of any sport, then he or she has done their job and is an absolute star. They are suppose to control the game not influence it.
If a player makes a bad mistake at a critical time (like Bec’s getting sent off in world cup a couple of years back), then they are hounded by press, fans and every wanabee soccer expert. Why can’t we be annoyed about how the ump stuffed up? He has a job to do like every player does and should not be immune to criticism if it’s not done properly. If the game is getting too fast, get faster….
Had a Gralyn estate white port last night and found it the best value. Gorgeously balanced (not over sweet) all round and a class act at $25 a bottle. Botrytis fans will adore it.
I really don't think the timing of the decision and the match-winning nature of the decision should be influencing factors. Refrees make a judgment from their point of view (and here I am talking about distance from the ball, angle at which the action takes place, players in between etc.) as to whether a foul has been committed or not. They should not then have an internal debate about the timing of the incident, or whether it will mean certain victory for one team or another.
If a player makes a bad mistake at a critical time (like Bec’s getting sent off in world cup a couple of years back), then they are hounded by press, fans and every wanabee soccer expert. Why can’t we be annoyed about how the ump stuffed up? He has a job to do like every player does and should not be immune to criticism if it’s not done properly. If the game is getting too fast, get faster….
Had a Gralyn estate white port last night and found it the best value. Gorgeously balanced (not over sweet) all round and a class act at $25 a bottle. Botrytis fans will adore it.
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KMP
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Socceroos played wonderful football - pity Johnny Warren did not live a few extra years to see it.
As for the penalty - will go down as one of the great dives of Italian football history. Grosso has said "I haven't watched the replay yet," said Grosso. "I tried to avoid contact, I got past one defender but then my leg got stuck in between the other defender's legs and I had no option but to go down. My aim was to go all the way." Link. He probably should check out the replay so he can get his story correct, because he was trying to run around Lucas Neill's head and shoulders. Link.
But the best quote has to be from Gennaro Gattuso "They didn’t have a single shot on goal ....". Where was he when Chipperfield shot on goal at the 29 and 58th minutes, or for Cahill's header in the 80th?
Mike
As for the penalty - will go down as one of the great dives of Italian football history. Grosso has said "I haven't watched the replay yet," said Grosso. "I tried to avoid contact, I got past one defender but then my leg got stuck in between the other defender's legs and I had no option but to go down. My aim was to go all the way." Link. He probably should check out the replay so he can get his story correct, because he was trying to run around Lucas Neill's head and shoulders. Link.
But the best quote has to be from Gennaro Gattuso "They didn’t have a single shot on goal ....". Where was he when Chipperfield shot on goal at the 29 and 58th minutes, or for Cahill's header in the 80th?
Mike