Based on tasting the then current release reds at the winery in May last year, it will be quite a while before another Chapel Hill red makes it into my cellar.
The last Chapel Hill red in my cellar
The last Chapel Hill red in my cellar
The Vicar Cabernet-Shiraz 1998, initially some good fruit showing, but with a worrying undertone that quickly came to the fore and took over as it breathed in the glass - TCA.
Based on tasting the then current release reds at the winery in May last year, it will be quite a while before another Chapel Hill red makes it into my cellar.
Based on tasting the then current release reds at the winery in May last year, it will be quite a while before another Chapel Hill red makes it into my cellar.
Cheers
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
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Andrew Jordan
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Brian,
Quite agree with you here. Sold the rest of my 1998 Vicar's last year when I opened one and wasn't impressed with what I found. Also the 2001 Vicar's went with them. So like you have no Chapel Hill wines in the cellar and don't have any plans in the near future to put any in there anytime soon.
Quite agree with you here. Sold the rest of my 1998 Vicar's last year when I opened one and wasn't impressed with what I found. Also the 2001 Vicar's went with them. So like you have no Chapel Hill wines in the cellar and don't have any plans in the near future to put any in there anytime soon.
Cheers
AJ
Cabernet is ... and will always be ... KING!
AJ
Cabernet is ... and will always be ... KING!
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Winefront Monthly
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Fair call Brian.
It's been an amazing slide towards obscurity. 7-10 years ago you'd almost call them one of the darlings - now you hardly see them mentioned. What happened? I still like the cellar door and still love the look of those steep-sided vineyards ... surely they've still got acccess to good fruit? Someone should put in some hard questions and write an afrticle about it ...
Campbell.
It's been an amazing slide towards obscurity. 7-10 years ago you'd almost call them one of the darlings - now you hardly see them mentioned. What happened? I still like the cellar door and still love the look of those steep-sided vineyards ... surely they've still got acccess to good fruit? Someone should put in some hard questions and write an afrticle about it ...
Campbell.
Their wines used to be a staple in my cellar and were so for many years. Around 1994 things (me for) started to go horribly wrong with this winery. The number of dud bottles was horrendious; TCA, RO etc was running at about one in three bottles.
And then the wines changed. They looked great on release and then failed to improve - in fact they went downhill.
The wineries attitude also left a lot to be desired.
And then the wines changed. They looked great on release and then failed to improve - in fact they went downhill.
The wineries attitude also left a lot to be desired.
Gosh, we all live the same life! The 98 Vicar was the last of the line in my cellar too, I opened each successive bottle with increasing alarm as the wine became hotter and hollower. Yet at release, it was lovely stuff.
Gosh can you think of a candidate?
Actually, the industry tradition seems to be that anything committed to paper should wait until there is some sign of distinct improvement over a few years, thereby allowing any article to have an upbeat tone that starts, "It's been a couple of tough vintages for Chateau Plonka, but with the last two years' releases it's clear this winery is back hitting the target. New winemaker Pip Stalk explains..." And so on. I don't think I've ever seen an story (except Parker on Mount Mary, perhaps ) that reads "Estate Terminal's latest wines have continued the disappointing run of new releases which began five years ago. Staff reporter Hugh Hatchet visits the winery to discover the reasons for the decline of this fallen icon..." !
Someone should put in some hard questions and write an article about it ...
Gosh can you think of a candidate?
Actually, the industry tradition seems to be that anything committed to paper should wait until there is some sign of distinct improvement over a few years, thereby allowing any article to have an upbeat tone that starts, "It's been a couple of tough vintages for Chateau Plonka, but with the last two years' releases it's clear this winery is back hitting the target. New winemaker Pip Stalk explains..." And so on. I don't think I've ever seen an story (except Parker on Mount Mary, perhaps
) that reads "Estate Terminal's latest wines have continued the disappointing run of new releases which began five years ago. Staff reporter Hugh Hatchet visits the winery to discover the reasons for the decline of this fallen icon..." !The Chapel Hill story certainly is disappointing. As a big fan of their wines in past years, recent vintages have shown some very unusual characteristics. I have just had a 2001 Vicar and despite winning Gold in Sydney, this wine is now very disappointing. This is about the 3rd bottle I've had where the fruit seems to be dropping out. Wonder if it is an insidious form of TCA?
Not sure if it is common knowledge that Pam Dunsford went to the USA about 3 years ago and picked up a nasty virus which caused her to lose her sense of smell and taste...permanently!
Not sure if it is common knowledge that Pam Dunsford went to the USA about 3 years ago and picked up a nasty virus which caused her to lose her sense of smell and taste...permanently!
We're not here for a long time, we're here for a good time!
Shadrach wrote:Not sure if it is common knowledge that Pam Dunsford went to the USA about 3 years ago and picked up a nasty virus which caused her to lose her sense of smell and taste...permanently!
Its pretty well known but we are talking about 98-03 vintages when she was the winemaker and that was prior to her health issues.
I really liked some of the Tattachilla reds Michael Fragos made while he was there, so I have been patiently waiting for some good things to happen with Chapel Hill since he arrived, but nothing yet!
The 98 Vicar turned to crap, the 98 Shiraz is still drinking okay, as is the 96 Shiraz. I will try a 01 Vicar today, the last bottle a few months ago was okay, hope it hasnt turned to crap also. All in all, a pretty sad story. Maybe the new owners have something to do with it?
Bruce
The 98 Vicar turned to crap, the 98 Shiraz is still drinking okay, as is the 96 Shiraz. I will try a 01 Vicar today, the last bottle a few months ago was okay, hope it hasnt turned to crap also. All in all, a pretty sad story. Maybe the new owners have something to do with it?
Bruce
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JamieBahrain
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I too liked the CH wines from the early 90's. I never felt they were a great cellaring propostion, however, they were very generous in youth and good drinking.
I have a friend for whom the Vicar is the top end proposition of his cellar. We had a 98 recently, the fruit was falling away leaving a shell of new oak complexity only. I think the wine will be quite awful and out of whack if the fruit fades much further.
The 96 shiraz, of which I cellared 6 bottles, had fallen apart a few years ago, in my experience. I gave away a few bottles- this came back to haunt me; not so generous host served the 'gift' over dinner soon after.
I have a friend for whom the Vicar is the top end proposition of his cellar. We had a 98 recently, the fruit was falling away leaving a shell of new oak complexity only. I think the wine will be quite awful and out of whack if the fruit fades much further.
The 96 shiraz, of which I cellared 6 bottles, had fallen apart a few years ago, in my experience. I gave away a few bottles- this came back to haunt me; not so generous host served the 'gift' over dinner soon after.
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Winefront Monthly
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[quote="GraemeG"]
Actually, the industry tradition seems to be that anything committed to paper should wait until there is some sign of distinct improvement over a few years, thereby allowing any article to have an upbeat tone that starts, "It's been a couple of tough vintages for Chateau Plonka, but with the last two years' releases it's clear this winery is back hitting the target. New winemaker Pip Stalk explains..." And so on. I don't think I've ever seen an story (except Parker on Mount Mary, perhaps ) that reads "Estate Terminal's latest wines have continued the disappointing run of new releases which began five years ago. Staff reporter Hugh Hatchet visits the winery to discover the reasons for the decline of this fallen icon..." ![/quote]
I have to confess to laughing out loud at that.
you're right, I think I might hold off for a couple of years.
Campbell.
www.winefront.com.au
Actually, the industry tradition seems to be that anything committed to paper should wait until there is some sign of distinct improvement over a few years, thereby allowing any article to have an upbeat tone that starts, "It's been a couple of tough vintages for Chateau Plonka, but with the last two years' releases it's clear this winery is back hitting the target. New winemaker Pip Stalk explains..." And so on. I don't think I've ever seen an story (except Parker on Mount Mary, perhaps
) that reads "Estate Terminal's latest wines have continued the disappointing run of new releases which began five years ago. Staff reporter Hugh Hatchet visits the winery to discover the reasons for the decline of this fallen icon..." ![/quote]
I have to confess to laughing out loud at that.
you're right, I think I might hold off for a couple of years.
Campbell.
www.winefront.com.au
Winefront Monthly wrote:GraemeG wrote:Actually, the industry tradition seems to be that anything committed to paper should wait until there is some sign of distinct improvement over a few years, thereby allowing any article to have an upbeat tone that starts, "It's been a couple of tough vintages for Chateau Plonka, but with the last two years' releases it's clear this winery is back hitting the target. New winemaker Pip Stalk explains..." And so on. I don't think I've ever seen an story (except Parker on Mount Mary, perhaps
I have to confess to laughing out loud at that.
you're right, I think I might hold off for a couple of years.
Campbell.
www.winefront.com.au
Chapel Hill is an interesting subject because it has had a lot of changes in the last few years that may/may not have influenced this slide:
Pam Dunsford's health issues (I think they may actually stretch back prior to when you were thinking TORB) and her "sharing" of the head winemaking duties well before the Mick Fragos appointment, the sale of the controlling share from Gerard Industries to the Swiss mob (who's name I forget), and the major expansion/building of the corporate hostel/cooking facilities and subsequent big promotion push.
Personally I'd rather you look at it now Campbell while there's still people who were around at the time of all these changes who could possibly answer if any of these factors are relevant, or if there are any other reasons for the downslide.
Cheers,
Ian
Ps. I got a newsletter from Chapel Hill last week, and one of the first things it mentioned was that Pam has retired from all management duties too, and is now completely off the CH scene.
Forget about goodness and mercy, they're gone.
By chance, I had a 2002 CH Shiraz yesterday, it wasn't a great wine at all, but I did have a 94 Cabernet a couple of months ago that was fantastic.
I still have CH's in the cellar, the last being 98's. Funnily enough I tried them at CD and didn't like them. Tried them again at Wine Oz and thought they were very good, the Cabernet especially, which prompted me to buy. Given the comments here, I must try them again soon.
Ian
I still have CH's in the cellar, the last being 98's. Funnily enough I tried them at CD and didn't like them. Tried them again at Wine Oz and thought they were very good, the Cabernet especially, which prompted me to buy. Given the comments here, I must try them again soon.
Ian
Winefront Monthly wrote:Fair call Brian.
It's been an amazing slide towards obscurity. 7-10 years ago you'd almost call them one of the darlings - now you hardly see them mentioned. What happened? I still like the cellar door and still love the look of those steep-sided vineyards ... surely they've still got acccess to good fruit? Someone should put in some hard questions and write an afrticle about it ...
Campbell.
perhaps that should be a farticle .....
Cheers,
David
David
GraemeG wrote:Gosh, we all live the same life! The 98 Vicar was the last of the line in my cellar too, I opened each successive bottle with increasing alarm as the wine became hotter and hollower. Yet at release, it was lovely stuff.Someone should put in some hard questions and write an article about it ...
Gosh can you think of a candidate?
Actually, the industry tradition seems to be that anything committed to paper should wait until there is some sign of distinct improvement over a few years, thereby allowing any article to have an upbeat tone that starts, "It's been a couple of tough vintages for Chateau Plonka, but with the last two years' releases it's clear this winery is back hitting the target. New winemaker Pip Stalk explains..." And so on. I don't think I've ever seen an story (except Parker on Mount Mary, perhaps
I'd have applauded if anyone were listening.
I could see Oliver doing it out of bravery and perhaps Parker doing it out of petulance and Gluck doing it out of ignorance (but at least they'd be brave enough to do it). None of the wine magazines would ever go near such a story.
Well said!
I tasted the 2006 at Chapel Hill about a month ago, and was very impressed. It seemed like an effortlessly generous and concentrated wine, with ripe but not over-cooked fruit, already well in balance, just a very good wine.
I am disturbed to hear about the trajectory of the 1998 Vicar.
Has anyone tasted the 2006 Vicar?
Can I expect the same trajectory with this wine (I haven't bought any yet, I've been looking for a good price).
I am disturbed to hear about the trajectory of the 1998 Vicar.
Has anyone tasted the 2006 Vicar?
Can I expect the same trajectory with this wine (I haven't bought any yet, I've been looking for a good price).
orpheus wrote:I tasted the 2006 at Chapel Hill about a month ago, and was very impressed. It seemed like an effortlessly generous and concentrated wine, with ripe but not over-cooked fruit, already well in balance, just a very good wine.
I am disturbed to hear about the trajectory of the 1998 Vicar.
Has anyone tasted the 2006 Vicar?
Can I expect the same trajectory with this wine (I haven't bought any yet, I've been looking for a good price).
"Past performance is no guarantee of future returns". Amongst other things there is a new winemaker since about 2003/2004. There is a review of this wine on The Wine Front http://www.winefront.com.au/ but you probably have to be a subscriber to see the details.
BTW, I now have some of the excellent CH Cabernet 2005 in my cellar.
Cheers
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Oh heh. I was reading through this thread with a puzzled expression until I noticed the dates of the initial posts. The 05 Chapel Hill Cabernet was excellent and though I haven't had the 06 yet, word is that it is also very good.
I have one 2001 Vicar left - I had my second to last one a year or two ago and it was very good, but my sense was that it had some development left. After reading this thread though I might pop it sometime soon.
I have one 2001 Vicar left - I had my second to last one a year or two ago and it was very good, but my sense was that it had some development left. After reading this thread though I might pop it sometime soon.