Torbreck Tasting with David Powell

[GRB]

North Syd Cellars had a tasting of the full range of Torbreck wines last night. A not to miss occasion.

2004 Juveniles
Light red in colour. Floral nose with pepper and cherries. A light style wine with soft tanins and grenache sweetness on the palate dominating. I thought this wine a little disjointed but GSM of this style is not my thing. Reccomended

2003 The Steading
Mid Red in colour. Earth and sweet cherry on the nose palate depth much better the the Juveniles. Dusty tanins still grenache prominent on the palate much more to my liking that the Juveniles but looses out big time on QPR Highly Reccomended

2005 Woodcutters Shiraz
Purple with purple rim great colour. Sweet raspberry, olives, spices and white pepper on the nose finished a little short on the palate. This would be an OK wine at around $10-$12 but I feel at around $20 you are paying a premium for the label. Agreeable

2004 Struie
Purple with purple rim, pepper and spices on the nose. Grippy tanins clean fresh acidity. Plums and raspberry on the palate try as I might I couldn't pick up any brett but I am not a card carrying member of the brett police so don't trust me on that one. This wine was really a dissapointment and at this point I was beginning to wonder if my palate was out of wack I had expect a lot more from this wine given it's price. Highly Reccomended

2004 Descendent
The first of the SV blends deep purple to almost black in colour. Blue and red berrys on the nose, pepper, spice and after a couple of minutes just a hint of apricot pokes it's head up. Plums raspberry and just a magnificent depth and length on this wine it just waltzes across the palate revealing different flavours as it goes. David Powell said it is the best wine he has ever made and if RPJ doesn't give it 100 points he will kick him where it hurts. Don't know about the 100 points (don't know how to score points) but this is terrific stuff shame I don't have the endless cash reserves required to purchase. Excellent

2003 Factor
Old vine shiraz with the average age of around 120 years. Purple with purple rim. Plums, olives, herbs and spices with a wiff of alcahol on the nose. Lovely depth of fruit and just a hint of smokey bacon, strong tanins, a full bodies wine with a small amount of alcahol heat on the palate that didn't really detract from the wine. Just made it to Excellent

2003 Runrig
Deep red with red rim. Bright fruit on the nose in the red spectrum probably getting a lift from the viognier but I couldn't pick up the apricots. Slight sweetness to the palate back some plums backed by chalky tanins the wine had superb balance and a long smooth finish remeninsent of fruit cake. Excellent

2004 The Pict
Straight old vine Mataro, Purple with red rim. Slightly pooey on the nose that blew off fairly quickly. Still somewhat muted on the nose, Dark fruits and bubblegum on the palate. Dusty tanins and strong acidity a little disjointed at the moment. David said this needs to be hidden at the bottom of the cellar for 10 years plus. I think he may be right but I am not going to find out. Reccomended

2004 Les Amis
Deep red with red rim, menthol, earth and red berrys on the nose. This wine just explodes across the palate, with raspberries, blue berries and red cherries. Buy far the best grenache I have ever had but that isn't all that many. Excellent

There were some terriffic wines on display but at the end I walked out empty handed the stuff that was in my price range was frankly dissapointing and even though the top shelf stuff is probably better qpr I can't help feeling that they are priced for Parkerites. Apparently the first vintage of RunRig was $36 on release even at $50 to $70 some of these wines would be a must buy but at $200+ no thanks.

Glen

[Andrew Jordan]

2004 Les Amis
Deep red with red rim, menthol, earth and red berrys on the nose. This wine just explodes across the palate, with raspberries, blue berries and red cherries. Buy far the best grenache I have ever had but that isn't all that many. Excellent

Glen,

Thanks for the notes. I was planning to be at the tasting last night as well, but at the last minute something came up which made me miss it. Totally agree with you on the Les Amis. An amazing wine and really shines the light on how good Grenache can be! Pity about the price though.

[There were some terriffic wines on display but at the end I walked out empty handed that stuff that was in my price range was frankly dissapointing and even though the top shelf stuff is probably better qpr I can't help feeling that they are priced for Parkerites. Apparently the first vintage of RunRig was $36 on release even at $50 to $70 some of these wines would be a must but but at $200+ no thanks.

Agree here also. Although there can be no arguement that these are top quality wines, there is so much good quality wine on the market these days that you do not need to spend $200+ on a single bottle to impress your palate or the people around you. Give me 5 bottles of St Peters or Kalleske anytime.

[Lincoln]

2004 Les Amis
Deep red with red rim, menthol, earth and red berrys on the nose. This wine just explodes across the palate, with raspberries, blue berries and red cherries. Buy far the best grenache I have ever had but that isn't all that many. Excellent

Glen,

Thanks for the notes. I was planning to be at the tasting last night as well, but at the last minute something came up which made me miss it. Totally agree with you on the Les Amis. An amazing wine and really shines the light on how good Grenache can be! Pity about the price though.

You can get Chateauneuf-du-Pape for under $100 that will be great too, and sometimes around $50 if you are lucky.

[Gary W]

Tough crowd...I thought the Woodcutters was very good wine. I'll write something up later I think.

GW

[PaulV]

Didn't go to the North sydney tasting last night but tasted the lower levelwineson saturday -must have just missed Adair!!

The 2004 Juveniles is incredibly pale watery colour with similar light but floral toneson the palate. Pretty disappointing.

The 2005 Woodcutters shiraz I thought was a pretty good Barossa shiraz effort. Not over-oaked or too alcoholic, somenice lifted chocolate and plum on the nose andpalate. Maybe a bit simple. Nice quaffer.
However compared it directly with a 2004 Hewitson barossa shiraz - same price, and this was all class,with beautiful texture and some nice spicy french oak. Buy the hewitson.;

I liked the 2004 Struie very much. As a number of critics have said this is a veritable spice/deli box on the nose. Lots of complexity andlift on the nose, though just doesn't quite fulfil on the palate. White fullbodied and with fruit depth annd lovely balance - could easily drink a case over the next year- though for me just not worth the $45 - $50compared to say Glaezter Godolphin etc.

Cheers

Paul

[KMP]

North Syd Cellars had a tasting of the full range of Torbreck wines last night. A not to miss occasion. ......................

There were some terriffic wines on display but at the end I walked out empty handed that stuff that was in my price range was frankly dissapointing and even though the top shelf stuff is probably better qpr I can't help feeling that they are priced for Parkerites. Apparently the first vintage of RunRig was $36 on release even at $50 to $70 some of these wines would be a must but but at $200+ no thanks.

Glen

I have to confess confusion that Torbreck wines are priced for Parkerites, mainly because I'm not sure what a Parkerite is. Its true that many Torbreck wines get very good scores from Parker. But they also get very scores from many critics. They are excellent to outstanding wines. Why should they be cheap? Yes, before they had established a run of quality vintages they were considerably less expensive but this is as it should be. As the wines have continued to rate highly and demand has no doubt tested the limits of supply the prices have changed accordingly. Again this is as it should be. If you can make wine of the quality that Torbreck does and people will pay $200 bottle for it then more power to you. Even more power to you if I front up and youÂ’ll let me taste the wines for a few $Â’s and then I walk away and complain about the QPR.

Mike

[Baby Chickpea]

My impressions are as follows.

A couple of caveats: IÂ’m a pretty tough marker, the ambient surroundings werenÂ’t too conducive to this tasting (quite humid and hot) and the wines werenÂ’t decanted. A great event nonetheless.

2004 WoodcutterÂ’s Semillon
Barrel Fermented. Herbaceous, slight grass, hints of floral, sweet fruit. Palate is bone dry and acidic with some A/V heat. Finish ruined by distilled spirit-like alcohol. IÂ’m really not a Semillon fan unless itÂ’s botrytised.
83 / 100

2005 Marsanne Rousanne
65% marsanne, 35% rousanne from Descendant vineyard. Even more grassy and herbaceous, with peculiar waxy texture and, again, A/V heat on nose and palate. Fruit quite reticent on palate. Very hot and tough. Lacking finesse. Really not impressed with this.
81 / 100

2004 Cuvée Juveniles
60% grenache, 25% mataro, 15% shiraz. Unoaked. Sweet floral cherries, spicy plums and very funky nose (not adversely). Slight heat. Palate is soft, with nice tannins, Pretty good but I prefer this a little chilled.
85 / 100

2003 The Steading
60% grenache, 20% mataro, 20% shiraz. 22 months in 6-8 year-old oak bought from Penfolds. Lovely sweetly aromatic petals and smoky wood. More intensity. Palate shows obvious oak but not overdone at all. More lifted fruit characters and quite easy to drink already. No sign of alcohol. Perhaps lacks structure for long term ageing but very good overall.
87 / 100

2005 WoodcutterÂ’s Shiraz
12 months aged in ancient foudres. Acetone nose, with touch of pepper and blackfruits. David Powell reckons this is his best WoodcutterÂ’s yet. Palate is all upfront, with little backbeat or length. Bit hot too. Good.
84 / 100

2004 The Struie
14.5%. Barossa (80-year-old vines) & Eden Valley (40-year-old vines) fruit. 18 months in 20% new French oak. Very deep purple colour. Step up in quality obvious – focussed, nicely perfumed, rich black plums and spicy black olives. Took a big sniff – no A/V whatsoever on nose or palate. Palate is sweet, ripe, gamey, with very good length, smooth tannins and good structure. Not sure of the longevity but this is a very nice wine.
88 / 100

2004 Descendant
14.5%. 93% shiraz, 7% viognier co-fermented in 18 months in 2 ½ year old French barrels that had been previously used for RunRig. Lovely deep purple colour. Incredibly rich smorgasbord of coffee, olive tapenade, jasmine, rose petals, and a smattering of something like someone farted in the glass. Palate has exceptional length, intensity yet remains balanced and elegant. Viognier really augments the wine. This wine is all about length and balance. Really impressive and my clear WOTN. David Powell reckons it is the best wine he has ever made and will kick RPJ if he doesn’t give it 100 points!
93 / 100

2003 The Factor
14.5%. 100% shiraz from 80-110 year old vines. Matured separately in 70% and 30% new French Oak barriques for 24 months. More upfront ripeness than the Descendant. Not as complex or interesting either. Slight touch of alcohol detracts. Palate is excellent with lovely balance. Excellent wine, with good creamy texture but not as good as the 04 Descendant.
91 / 100

2003 RunRig
14.5%. 98% shiraz, 2% viognier. 30 months in 60% new French Oak (with the remainder being seasoned). The 2% estate grown Viognier is fermented and aged for 6 months in barrel and then added to the blend just prior to bottling. Quite mute nose compared to two previous wines. Good concentration on nose and palate with tar, mocha, liquorice, plums, cherries all finely honed. DidnÂ’t pick up any viognier characters. Palate is most tannic of the wines tonight, showcasing lovely structure and excellent length. This will be a long-lived wine. Preferred 98, 99, 01 and 02 RunRigÂ’s though.
91 / 100

2004 The Pict
100% old vine mataro (mourvedre). Two years new oak. David Powell paid $8,000 a tonne for this (previous price paid to growers pre-Torbreck was $800)!! Bit of hotness undercuts the very ripe earthy fruit. Good length, plenty of soft tannins caress the finish but lacks precision for me. Very good but in an awkward phase.
88 / 100

2004 Les Amis
100% old vine grenache. 18 months French oak. Most flamboyantly pastille-like and hubba-bubba bubblegum nuances. Almost jammy (but not quite). Bit pooey too. Oak evident on nose. Good balance, nice furry tannins, some hotness and finishes with crisp acidity. This wine really needs time and appeared to my palate as most youthful wine of night!
87 / 100

[GRB]

I have to confess confusion that Torbreck wines are priced for Parkerites, mainly because I'm not sure what a Parkerite is. Its true that many Torbreck wines get very good scores from Parker. But they also get very scores from many critics. They are excellent to outstanding wines. Why should they be cheap? Yes, before they had established a run of quality vintages they were considerably less expensive but this is as it should be. As the wines have continued to rate highly and demand has no doubt tested the limits of supply the prices have changed accordingly. Again this is as it should be. If you can make wine of the quality that Torbreck does and people will pay $200 bottle for it then more power to you. Even more power to you if I front up and youÂ’ll let me taste the wines for a few $Â’s and then I walk away and complain about the QPR.

Mike

More power to David Powell I didn't say he had to drop the price for my benefit, if he can sell every bottle he makes for $200 plus why should he drop the price. I went with the intention of buying the Woodcutters and/or Struie if they represented value for ME, they didn't so no purchase. It was a great tasting and I am very appreciative of the opportunity to try the wines. There are so many great wines around < $50 that I can afford (just) there was no reason for me to blow the whole budget on 1 bottle of Descendent and yes I was tempted. The Parkerite statment was probably off the mark a little but these wines obviously have a cult following to pull the prices they do (I didn't mention the $US70,000 that an Imperial of Les Amis earned at a charity auction) as pound for pound against other wines they are not good QPR IMHO.

Glen

[Andrew Jordan]

I have to confess confusion that Torbreck wines are priced for Parkerites, mainly because I'm not sure what a Parkerite is. Its true that many Torbreck wines get very good scores from Parker. But they also get very scores from many critics. They are excellent to outstanding wines. Why should they be cheap? Yes, before they had established a run of quality vintages they were considerably less expensive but this is as it should be. As the wines have continued to rate highly and demand has no doubt tested the limits of supply the prices have changed accordingly. Again this is as it should be. If you can make wine of the quality that Torbreck does and people will pay $200 bottle for it then more power to you. Even more power to you if I front up and youÂ’ll let me taste the wines for a few $Â’s and then I walk away and complain about the QPR.

Mike

Mike,

Dave Powell can charge what he likes for his wine and if people buy it, then good on him. Totally agree with you here. And there is no questioning the quality of wines he is putting out. But just because Parker or any other critic for that matter gives a wine a good score does not mean that the winery has to put the prices up due to demand vs. supply. There are many wineries that are making bloody good wine these days, and getting great reviews and scores by the critics, and even though their wines are in great demand they still have their customers best interest in mind with keeping prices down. I cannot see Drew Noon next year putting his Reserve Shiraz up to $200 just because Parker gave him 99 for his 2003 release! And the Rockford's and Kalleske's of this world have proven that increased demand for their product does not necessarily mean a 200% hike in prices. There is no question that I would drink Torbreck wines any day of the week, given the chance, but for this little chicken there are much better bargains out there.

[camw]

But just because Parker or any other critic for that matter gives a wine a good score does not mean that the winery has to put the prices up due to demand vs. supply.

I'd rather the winery (ie the ones doing the hard work) get the money directly rather than those on the mailing list who get their allocations (if these were still $50 there would be no other way to really do it) and then flick them onto the secondary market and make a huge profit.

[GraemeG]

But just because Parker or any other critic for that matter gives a wine a good score does not mean that the winery has to put the prices up due to demand vs. supply. There are many wineries that are making bloody good wine these days, and getting great reviews and scores by the critics, and even though their wines are in great demand they still have their customers best interest in mind with keeping prices down. I cannot see Drew Noon next year putting his Reserve Shiraz up to $200 just because Parker gave him 99 for his 2003 release! A

Well, if you're going to start paying $8k/tonne for Mourvedre grapes as claimed somewhere above, your prices are going to have to reflect that...

cheers,
Graeme

[Andrew Jordan]

Well, if you're going to start paying $8k/tonne for Mourvedre grapes as claimed somewhere above, your prices are going to have to reflect that...

cheers,
Graeme

Putting prices up due to production costs increasing is one thing, but just to increase them on the back of a couple of good reviews and scores is altogether a different beast.

[KMP]

Mike,

Dave Powell can charge what he likes for his wine and if people buy it, then good on him. Totally agree with you here. And there is no questioning the quality of wines he is putting out. But just because Parker or any other critic for that matter gives a wine a good score does not mean that the winery has to put the prices up due to demand vs. supply. There are many wineries that are making bloody good wine these days, and getting great reviews and scores by the critics, and even though their wines are in great demand they still have their customers best interest in mind with keeping prices down. I cannot see Drew Noon next year putting his Reserve Shiraz up to $200 just because Parker gave him 99 for his 2003 release! And the Rockford's and Kalleske's of this world have proven that increased demand for their product does not necessarily mean a 200% hike in prices. There is no question that I would drink Torbreck wines any day of the week, given the chance, but for this little chicken there are much better bargains out there.

AJ

The prices on some of the wines you mention are a matter of who you buy wine from and where you live. I just paid $55USD/bottle for the 2004 Kalleske Greenock Shiraz. That is about $78AUD. A few years ago I paid the same for the 2002 in USD and then I bought more from Wickman's at $80AUD; exchange rate was probably different but not by a vast amount. Oddly enough the 2002 wine sold out over here in a flash - the 2004 is still available. But I don't think anyone on the Kalleske list or through Gavin's site paid $80 for their 2002 or 2004 Kalleske.

In contrast the Torbreck Descendant 2003 and 2004 is $90USD or about $128AUD. That is fairly reasonable for its price in Australia.

Price hikes often don't go with big point by Parker just ask the folks at Clarendon Hills who have had all sorts of problems selling their wines after their last price increase. They have actually had to come down in price.

Mike

EDIT: And to be honest here I don't buy any Torbreck wines although I was very tempted by the 2003 The Struie but as others have said there are better values - for me it was the 2003 Winter Creek but then I did spend more on the 2003 Heathcote Estate. Still if I was going to lay big dollars down The Descendent would be hard to beat.

[Irregular]

Glen, at a Barossa vs McLaren Vale Shiraz tasting event a couple of weeks back, the 04 Struie was on offer, and agree with your remarks. I was expecting much, but was disappointed by it. An OK wine but nothing great, especially considering the price asked. At around the same price, the 02 Saltram No1 was, by comparison, awesome. Have since purchased the No1, a glorious wine.

cheers
Ian

[Davo]

Having tasted the lineup at CD for the past couple of years I have to say that I was quite disappointed across the board with Torbreck's reds this year. I thought they all dislplayed quite poor VFM in comparison to many other wines on offer in the Barossa from the same vintage and even worse VFM when compared with the likes of the Saltram No1 2002.

As to the tasters above not noticing the viognier in the Descendent or Run Rig, all I can say is each to their own, but I found it overbearing in each wine, the Descendent moreso than the Run Rig, with each redolent of floral apricot lollywater detracting from the obviously lovely shiraz hiding underneath.

I am normally a lover of wines from this stable but found nothing to cheer about this year, with only the Woodcutters 2004 standing out and showing any value for the money asked.

Just my opinion of course (and actually also the opinion of my tasting partner for the trip who is a self confessed Torbreckophile)

[GRB]

As to the tasters above not noticing the viognier in the Descendent or Run Rig, all I can say is each to their own, but I found it overbearing in each wine, the Descendent moreso than the Run Rig, with each redolent of floral apricot lollywater detracting from the obviously lovely shiraz hiding underneath.

Hi Davo,

I picked up on the Viognier in the Descendent (Apricot in my TN) but didn't think it detracted from the wine. Couldn't find any in the Run Rig though. Having said that I have not tried these wines before and my only previous experience with SV blends has been from much lower quality wines that have had WAY to much viognier. And yes there is some lovely shiraz in these wines.

Glen

[Lincoln]

As to the tasters above not noticing the viognier in the Descendent or Run Rig, all I can say is each to their own, but I found it overbearing in each wine, the Descendent moreso than the Run Rig, with each redolent of floral apricot lollywater detracting from the obviously lovely shiraz hiding underneath.

I didn't notice the Viognier in the Run Rig, but in the Descendent it was overwhelming - not to my tastes at all.

[Wizz]

As to the tasters above not noticing the viognier in the Descendent or Run Rig, all I can say is each to their own, but I found it overbearing in each wine, the Descendent moreso than the Run Rig, with each redolent of floral apricot lollywater detracting from the obviously lovely shiraz hiding underneath.

I didn't notice the Viognier in the Run Rig, but in the Descendent it was overwhelming - not to my tastes at all.

Ditto. It showed for me as shrivelled dried apricots and gave the wine some hard corners. Pass.

I thoughtit was much better managed in the Run Rig.

[Davo]

Obviously I am much more sensitive to the weed than you guys, but I will stick to my palate. IMO the Run Rig would have been a better wine without it.

[Baby Chickpea]

Davo, any Shiraz Viognier's out there you actually like? I LOVED the Descendent big time and felt although the viognier was obvious, it wasn't overdone and actually augmented the wine. And, by gooly, if you could taste the Viognier in the Runrig then you must be bloody sensitive to it!

[Davo]

Davo, any Shiraz Viognier's out there you actually like? I LOVED the Descendent big time and felt although the viognier was obvious, it wasn't overdone and actually augmented the wine. And, by gooly, if you could taste the Viognier in the Runrig then you must be bloody sensitive to it!

I could smell it and taste it. And yes I am pretty sensitive to it and don't particularly like it in shiraz. And no, I can't think of any Oz S/Vs I like.

And stop talking about testicles on a public forum.

[Baby Chickpea]

haha

Not even the gorgeous clonakilla???

PS - why has my screen shrunk on this forum??????????????

[Davo]

To be honest Danny, I haven't tasted it since the first vintage, but I did not like it then.

I don't buy wines in that price range on spec and as I haven't seen this at any tastings in Perth and haven't been to the ACT for about 6 years I have not had the opportunity.

Strangely, I do rather like viognier as a straight varietal and in particular those from Yalumba nad Millbrook. Also love the Yalumba Botrytis Viognier. I just don't like what it does to shiraz.

[Alan Rath]

2004 Descendent
The first of the SV blends deep purple to almost black in colour. Blue and red berrys on the nose, pepper, spice and after a couple of minutes just a hint of apricot pokes it's head up. Plums raspberry and just a magnificent depth and length on this wine it just waltzes across the palate revealing different flavours as it goes. David Powell said it is the best wine he has ever made and if RPJ doesn't give it 100 points he will kick him where it hurts. Don't know about the 100 points (don't know how to score points) but this is terrific stuff shame I don't have the endless cash reserves required to purchase. Excellent

Glenn, Very nice notes, and I agree with most, but having tried the 04 Descendant recently (and having drunk a number of bottles of 99-03 bottles of this wine) I have to say I was severely disappointed in the 04 model. For my tastes, the viognier component was just too severe, and brought the wine to such a high-pitched level I just didn't enjoy it. All of the darker syrah character is lost, and this wine is just some kind of mutant. Parker may very well give it a high score - but only because he doesn't taste blind. As much as I've loved earlier vintages (particularly 01 and 02), I have to pass on this wine - especially when you couple in the ridiculous pricing here in the states (upwards of US$80).

Regards,
Alan

[camw]

Not much to add sorry, but just wanted to chip in with a few short notes -

2004 Woodcutter’s Semillon
Nose is reasonable but worked - some funk, butter, citrus, and some nutty oak. The palate shows harsh phenolic characters as well as alcohol and excessive acid.
81/100

2005 Marsanne Rousanne
Nose shows candy notes, some florality, orange peel and musk. Palate is hot and disjointed with alcohol influence.
81/100

2004 Cuvée Juveniles
Some (more) heat on the nose along with smoked meats, dirt, mulch, some green characters, cherry and some licorice. Fruit sweetness on the palate. Thought that the palate was short and uninteresting. Didn't like this at all.
80/100

2003 The Steading
Chocolate, licorice and some cedar oak on the nose. Shows better length, depth and power on the palate than the Cuvée Juveniles, but is still lacking some interest.
86/100

2005 Woodcutter’s Shiraz
Nail polish, varnish and pepper on the nose. Palate is hot, acidic and stewed.
78/100

2004 The Struie
This is a bit more like it. Spice, licorice, smoked meat and I thought some very small cheesy notes. Lovely fruit intensity on the palate. Well balanced and and drinking very well now for my tastes.
88/100

2004 Descendant
Another step up in class (and price!). Floral, sweet, slightly candied nose as well as some tobacco/ashtray, mocha and just a touch of apricot. Very mouth filling and has good intensity of flavour while retaining balance and elegance. Drinking pretty well tonight, but sure to improve.
91/100

2003 The Factor
Nose is rather tight - some spicy, peppery, smoked meat characters being all that I could get. Palate has excellent structure and balance as well as very good length. Given time, I think it'll open up and be rather good.
92/100

2003 RunRig
Restrained power on the nose with some tar, dark fruits and floral notes with balanced oak in the background. Palate is elegant, balanced and focused with good texture and flavour. Drinking alright on the night, it will still be a waste of potential if you open then before another 3 or 4 years.
92/100

2004 The Pict
Earth, smoke and chocolate nose. Palate structure and flavour is interesting. Tannins felt like they were chewy. Good length, but very youthful and will should benefit from time in bottle.
89/100

2004 Les Amis
Nose shows blackcurrant, raspberry, chocolate, tarmac, sweet fruit, a slight oxidative character and a touch of oak. Tannins are quite prominent on the palate at this stage, but apart from that it was exhibiting balance and structure with good flavour intensity.
91/100