I posted this on a Heathcote thread a few days back but no one has leapt to the defence by suggesting what the other great wines of Heathcote are - any takers?
The earlier thread reads - .......I've been asking for some time, where are the great wines from Heathcote?
I nearly choked on my breakfast a while back when a Melbourne retailer described Heathcote as having become the premier Shiraz region of Australia. I know Victorians (like us in SA) are parochial but what crap.
Events like the great Shiraz Challenge are full of McLaren Vale and Barossa and very few if any Heathcote.
I love Jasper Hill and have raved about it in a seperate post, Mt.Ida has always impressed except for the "bad years" of 97 to 01 when the corporates got it wrong.
I've actively sought out Heathcotes for blind tastings and they rarely bother the scorer and are very overpriced generally.
Alot of hot air and puffed chests precede the wines which, with a couple of notable exceptions, don't cut the mustard.
I'd be pleased if those more knowledable on Heathcote could point me to the other stars in this region because I can't find them, unlike say the Barossa where genuine new stars appear regularly without any self generated hype, I'm thinking here of labels like Kalleske, Glaymond, Massena, Schwarz, Rusden etc.
Defenders of Heathcote, where art thou?
Defenders of Heathcote, where art thou?
Cheers - Steve
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
Chalk and Cheese Steve, you can count good/great Heathcote wines on one hand whereas the Barossa/McClaren has a plethora of good/great wines. IÂ’m from Victoria but SA Shiraz is probably represented by a factor of 10:1 in my cellar compared to Victorian, or more specifically Heathcote Shiraz. I could only find Jasper, Dalwinnie, Hanging Rock and Shadowfax on my records, and IÂ’m questioning the value of the Shadowfax.
I’ve tried a couple of new wines from Heathcote, one being a ‘Nicks’ recommendation, yep, it was a ‘115’ pointer on the 100 point scale. I poured it down the sink, it was simply terrible. From Heathcote, Jasper Hill is probably the only one with pedigree, they are great wines. But there are many more SA wines with runs on the board compared to Heathcote and given the prices being asked, they aren’t worth the risk. No argument from me Steve, SA Shiraz as a rule dominates. Now, if your proposition was SA vs Vic Pinot, I would argue differently! But that would be somewhat academic given your view on Pinot!
I’ve tried a couple of new wines from Heathcote, one being a ‘Nicks’ recommendation, yep, it was a ‘115’ pointer on the 100 point scale. I poured it down the sink, it was simply terrible. From Heathcote, Jasper Hill is probably the only one with pedigree, they are great wines. But there are many more SA wines with runs on the board compared to Heathcote and given the prices being asked, they aren’t worth the risk. No argument from me Steve, SA Shiraz as a rule dominates. Now, if your proposition was SA vs Vic Pinot, I would argue differently! But that would be somewhat academic given your view on Pinot!
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Gavin Trott
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Irregular wrote:Chalk and Cheese Steve, you can count good/great Heathcote wines on one hand whereas the Barossa/McClaren has a plethora of good/great wines. IÂ’m from Victoria but SA Shiraz is probably represented by a factor of 10:1 in my cellar compared to Victorian, or more specifically Heathcote Shiraz. I could only find Jasper, Dalwinnie, Hanging Rock and Shadowfax on my records, and IÂ’m questioning the value of the Shadowfax.
I’ve tried a couple of new wines from Heathcote, one being a ‘Nicks’ recommendation, yep, it was a ‘115’ pointer on the 100 point scale. I poured it down the sink, it was simply terrible. From Heathcote, Jasper Hill is probably the only one with pedigree, they are great wines. But there are many more SA wines with runs on the board compared to Heathcote and given the prices being asked, they aren’t worth the risk. No argument from me Steve, SA Shiraz as a rule dominates. Now, if your proposition was SA vs Vic Pinot, I would argue differently! But that would be somewhat academic given your view on Pinot!
I kept a copuple of bottles of the 2001 Shadowfax individual vineyard Shiraz for myself.
Each time I've tried them since, underwhelmed!
regards
Gavin Trott
Gavin Trott
Wild Duck Creek is hard to get, and sometimes an acquired taste, but seldom disappointing. I mean, if you're in the mood for a Springflat Shiraz, then Springflat Shiraz it has to be, because it's unique.
Tyrells Rufus Stone is pleasant and reliable enough as a mid-range Heathcote Shiraz, at least it was last time I tasted it.
Barnadown Run is a less well known and smaller label from the area, producing likeable enough full bodied Shiraz, Cabernet and Merlot, among others.
As for Shadowfax - their Geelongish based wines seem pretty good, so why the need for the "Heatcote" version? Maybe they are just hoping to cash in on the name!
Tyrells Rufus Stone is pleasant and reliable enough as a mid-range Heathcote Shiraz, at least it was last time I tasted it.
Barnadown Run is a less well known and smaller label from the area, producing likeable enough full bodied Shiraz, Cabernet and Merlot, among others.
As for Shadowfax - their Geelongish based wines seem pretty good, so why the need for the "Heatcote" version? Maybe they are just hoping to cash in on the name!
Let the kids out!
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Guest
Gavin Trott wrote:I kept a copuple of bottles of the 2001 Shadowfax individual vineyard Shiraz for myself.
Each time I've tried them since, underwhelmed!
Mine are good, do you want some back to compare?
Like Ian, I've tried a reasonable number of the newer wines from Heathcote, including some promoted by Nicks, I've not been tempted to buy any of them and couldn't relate to many of the review notes with the bottles I tried.
I seem to stick to Hanging Rock and now Mt Ida again for the 2002 after a lull from 98, Dominique Portet can be good, but I'm not to sure the 2003 is up to standard, have a few Red Edge, the odd Wild Duck Ck and and some of the 2001 Shadowfax One Eye / Pink Cliffs, must be time to try another of these. Rufus Stone can be good as a short-term cellaring proposition I stopped buying Jasper Hill Georgia's when it went over $50 or so, now $60+
I asked once before, don't think I got a response, anyone tried the 2002 Shadowfax One Eye / Pink Cliff shiraz pair?
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Baby Chickpea
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I'm a big fan of Wild Duck Creek and have been on the mailing list for many years - when Dave was making wines only for friends. I love the Springflat - last 5 vintages have been excellent without fail. Sure, the shiraz Reserve and Duck Muck are *BIG* but they're very enjoyable and have a place in everybody's cellar, even mine (that prefers old world elegance). The alcohol and oak are always in balance and never OTT. The cabernets can be non-typical but are very good and the reserve Merlot is a stunner. Sparkling Duck is gorgeous too, and for me right up there with The Joseph and Rockford Black. So yes, a strong supportyer of Dave's wines, and his individualism: he doesn't care what people think about his wines, he just makes 'em like he likes to drink them! Great bloke, great customer service (he hand delivers all the wines around Australia in his van) and great for a chat. That's good enough for me.
Danny
The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. We must never be afraid to go too far, for success lies just beyond - Marcel Proust
The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. We must never be afraid to go too far, for success lies just beyond - Marcel Proust
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JamieBahrain
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- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:40 am
- Location: Fragrant Harbour.
Steve
A decade ago there was a lot of Heathcote excitement- stella vintages of Jasper Hill, Wild Duck hype, undervalued Sprinflat shiraz and emerging quality such as Red Edge. Some of us still had faith in oldies such as Hanging Rock's Heathcote shiraz & Mt Ida.
Hot money and hyperbolic attitudes seemed to flow into the region. There were overnight proclaimations of Duck Muck like super-wines.
Yes, it's a disappointment.
But I am a defender of Heathcote shiraz. Jasper Hill is world class, Wild Duck is very good but now sadly over hyped. Scarce Red Edge displays sublime regionality in some vintages and untamed & interesting in others. Mt Ida is in a new wave style. These wines are all in my cellar.
For simple regional qualities, I prefer Heathcote to the Barossa & McClaren Vale. The wines can be sophisticated, with good structure and display a Rhone like complexity. This can be found for around $20 in the likes of Tyrell's, Yarra Burn etc. Perhaps this is where Heathcote's biggest future is as Australian shiraz drinkers seek to diversify and it is here where Heathcote as a region could ride more successfully on the coat tails of Jasper Hill & Wild Duck.
For a Black Tongues tasting I would suggest hunting down the scarce Red Edge. I will bring a bottle to the next off line in ADL. Paul Osicka is excellent wine for the price point. Carlei's Green Vineyards has been lying on retail shelves unsold in Adelaide for years- it has excellent regionality.
In the scheme of things Heathcote is a tiny and emerging wine region. Comparisons to McClaren Vale or Barossa premature.
I must add, as a sophisticated Victorian, some of your mentioned rising stars produce over ripe, hard drinking shiraz. Maybe this is where the emerging Heatcote wineries are going wrong- keep it simple and regional and you will knock the South Aussie's off their perch!
A decade ago there was a lot of Heathcote excitement- stella vintages of Jasper Hill, Wild Duck hype, undervalued Sprinflat shiraz and emerging quality such as Red Edge. Some of us still had faith in oldies such as Hanging Rock's Heathcote shiraz & Mt Ida.
Hot money and hyperbolic attitudes seemed to flow into the region. There were overnight proclaimations of Duck Muck like super-wines.
Yes, it's a disappointment.
But I am a defender of Heathcote shiraz. Jasper Hill is world class, Wild Duck is very good but now sadly over hyped. Scarce Red Edge displays sublime regionality in some vintages and untamed & interesting in others. Mt Ida is in a new wave style. These wines are all in my cellar.
For simple regional qualities, I prefer Heathcote to the Barossa & McClaren Vale. The wines can be sophisticated, with good structure and display a Rhone like complexity. This can be found for around $20 in the likes of Tyrell's, Yarra Burn etc. Perhaps this is where Heathcote's biggest future is as Australian shiraz drinkers seek to diversify and it is here where Heathcote as a region could ride more successfully on the coat tails of Jasper Hill & Wild Duck.
For a Black Tongues tasting I would suggest hunting down the scarce Red Edge. I will bring a bottle to the next off line in ADL. Paul Osicka is excellent wine for the price point. Carlei's Green Vineyards has been lying on retail shelves unsold in Adelaide for years- it has excellent regionality.
In the scheme of things Heathcote is a tiny and emerging wine region. Comparisons to McClaren Vale or Barossa premature.
I must add, as a sophisticated Victorian, some of your mentioned rising stars produce over ripe, hard drinking shiraz. Maybe this is where the emerging Heatcote wineries are going wrong- keep it simple and regional and you will knock the South Aussie's off their perch!
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Gavin Trott
- Posts: 1864
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:01 pm
- Location: Adelaide
- Contact:
JamieBahrain wrote:Steve
A decade ago there was a lot of Heathcote excitement- stella vintages of Jasper Hill, Wild Duck hype, undervalued Sprinflat shiraz and emerging quality such as Red Edge. Some of us still had faith in oldies such as Hanging Rock's Heathcote shiraz & Mt Ida.
Hot money and hyperbolic attitudes seemed to flow into the region. There were overnight proclaimations of Duck Muck like super-wines.
Yes, it's a disappointment.
But I am a defender of Heathcote shiraz. Jasper Hill is world class, Wild Duck is very good but now sadly over hyped. Scarce Red Edge displays sublime regionality in some vintages and untamed & interesting in others. Mt Ida is in a new wave style. These wines are all in my cellar.
For simple regional qualities, I prefer Heathcote to the Barossa & McClaren Vale. The wines can be sophisticated, with good structure and display a Rhone like complexity. This can be found for around $20 in the likes of Tyrell's, Yarra Burn etc. Perhaps this is where Heathcote's biggest future is as Australian shiraz drinkers seek to diversify and it is here where Heathcote as a region could ride more successfully on the coat tails of Jasper Hill & Wild Duck.
For a Black Tongues tasting I would suggest hunting down the scarce Red Edge. I will bring a bottle to the next off line in ADL. Paul Osicka is excellent wine for the price point. Carlei's Green Vineyards has been lying on retail shelves unsold in Adelaide for years- it has excellent regionality.
In the scheme of things Heathcote is a tiny and emerging wine region. Comparisons to McClaren Vale or Barossa premature.
I must add, as a sophisticated Victorian, some of your mentioned rising stars produce over ripe, hard drinking shiraz. Maybe this is where the emerging Heatcote wineries are going wrong- keep it simple and regional and you will knock the South Aussie's off their perch!
I sit in the middle of this debate. I love the style of the best of Heathcote, with different flavour profiles than Barossa and McVale. Jasper Hills and Mt Ida amongst others make wonderful wines with their own personaility and style.
But an awful lot from there is from young vines, is over hyped, over priced and under whelming.
Time should work this through, the potential is clearly there, and I for one would love to see, and sell, quality Heathcote wines at good prices, and with good consistency.
I'd also love to try the Wild Duck Creek wines, but never have!
regards
Gavin Trott
Gavin Trott
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Adam
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Guest
Adam wrote:So if you live in Sydney they sit in the back of the van as he makes the journey?!
Yep. Airconditioned van, Dave travels in sections stopping along the way. The sydney run is conducted in the morning, & he has his tasting the the evening.
This year i believe he has changed things and will delay release/delivery from his usual Oct-Nov, until Jun 06. Phew... too many mailers that time of year, not to mention all the xtra spending due to holiday season.
Christo
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Adam
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Gavin Trott
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Adam wrote:Im glad my allocation only has to go as far as Melbourne!!Anonymous wrote:Yep. Airconditioned van, Dave travels in sections stopping along the way. The sydney run is conducted in the morning, & he has his tasting the the evening.
Christo
yes
I'd love to see him drive to Sth Korea!
regards
Gavin Trott
Gavin Trott
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Adam
Heathcote is the premier Shiraz region in VIC certainly not AU.
I love Jasper Hill Georgia, any WDC and RedEdge(would be better if Mr.Dredge use some new timber)
Dislike the styles of Dominique Portet and Sergio Carlei. Didnt do any justice to this region. They should be making wines in Europe
For value McIvor is terrific for a $20+ wine.
I love Jasper Hill Georgia, any WDC and RedEdge(would be better if Mr.Dredge use some new timber)
Dislike the styles of Dominique Portet and Sergio Carlei. Didnt do any justice to this region. They should be making wines in Europe
For value McIvor is terrific for a $20+ wine.
Purple Tongue
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Guest
Hi Manning,
Very happy that someone noticed my pride and joy! The photo, as good as it is, still doesn't do the guitar justice. I had it custom made by a Sydney Luthier, Charles Cilia. The quilt maple is magnificent, I was able to pick it out myself, it is almost an inch thick. Mahogany body, flame maple neck, birdseye head stock and ebony fretboard. Charles does some very fine work. It is a joy to play...but it would be, it is all the guitars I have ever wanted in one.
Regards,
A
Very happy that someone noticed my pride and joy! The photo, as good as it is, still doesn't do the guitar justice. I had it custom made by a Sydney Luthier, Charles Cilia. The quilt maple is magnificent, I was able to pick it out myself, it is almost an inch thick. Mahogany body, flame maple neck, birdseye head stock and ebony fretboard. Charles does some very fine work. It is a joy to play...but it would be, it is all the guitars I have ever wanted in one.
Regards,
A
OT - Guitar stuff - sorry folks.
Well it is certainly exquisite - I'd love to see it in the flesh one day. I didn't quite think it was a PRS, but it looked like one more than anything else. The wood is magic!
I played Steinbergers during my pro career (1987 to 1993), had a pair of GL2s that got stolen in Las Vegas unfortunately. I've got a lovely Herb Ellis model arch-top and a Martin acoustic which are my main axes now, although I have an Ibanez Vai model for when my thrash genes kick in. The guitar I play the most is my baby Taylor which sits in my office... *sigh* the sad life of a grown-up.
Thanks for the details
Manning
Well it is certainly exquisite - I'd love to see it in the flesh one day. I didn't quite think it was a PRS, but it looked like one more than anything else. The wood is magic!
I played Steinbergers during my pro career (1987 to 1993), had a pair of GL2s that got stolen in Las Vegas unfortunately. I've got a lovely Herb Ellis model arch-top and a Martin acoustic which are my main axes now, although I have an Ibanez Vai model for when my thrash genes kick in. The guitar I play the most is my baby Taylor which sits in my office... *sigh* the sad life of a grown-up.
Thanks for the details
Manning
I'm still too early in my personal wine journey to be an expert on anything, but I went to the Heathcote Wine & Food Festival on the weekend to check the wines out and was largely underwhelmed by what I found.
There were one or two exceptions, with the standout being the 2003 shiraz from Heathcote II. They only made 200 cases, so I have no idea where you would track any down, but apparently the future vintages will be made in greater quantities as more and more of their vines reach maturity. I tried their 2004 shiraz as well, but it seemed a little more simple and generic. Then again, it might only have been in the bottle for a couple of weeks (some winemakers were offering wines that had been bottled just six days previously), so maybe it will turn into something a bit more interesting a few months down the track.
At any rate, the '03 was reasonable value (and a nice curio for the cellar) at $29, and it was the only wine that I bought at the end of the day. Shelmerdine was also there, and although I didn't visit their stand (I tasted all of their current wines a few weeks ago), their stuff is generally pretty good and stands up well against others in the $25-$30 range. But if the Festival was any sort of guide then there is currently a pretty big gulf between the best and the worst of the wines coming out of Heathcote.
There were one or two exceptions, with the standout being the 2003 shiraz from Heathcote II. They only made 200 cases, so I have no idea where you would track any down, but apparently the future vintages will be made in greater quantities as more and more of their vines reach maturity. I tried their 2004 shiraz as well, but it seemed a little more simple and generic. Then again, it might only have been in the bottle for a couple of weeks (some winemakers were offering wines that had been bottled just six days previously), so maybe it will turn into something a bit more interesting a few months down the track.
At any rate, the '03 was reasonable value (and a nice curio for the cellar) at $29, and it was the only wine that I bought at the end of the day. Shelmerdine was also there, and although I didn't visit their stand (I tasted all of their current wines a few weeks ago), their stuff is generally pretty good and stands up well against others in the $25-$30 range. But if the Festival was any sort of guide then there is currently a pretty big gulf between the best and the worst of the wines coming out of Heathcote.
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Baby Chickpea
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:17 pm
Adam wrote:So if you live in Sydney they sit in the back of the van as he makes the journey?!Baby Chickpea wrote:(he hand delivers all the wines around Australia in his van) and great for a chat. That's good enough for me.
I tend to pick mine up from him at the tasting.
Danny
The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. We must never be afraid to go too far, for success lies just beyond - Marcel Proust
The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. We must never be afraid to go too far, for success lies just beyond - Marcel Proust