Replacing Corked Wine; the Good, the Sad & the Ugly

[GraemeG]

After a good long run, the TCA gremlins bit a couple of months ago. Here are three very different experiences while attempting to obtain replacements for cork-affected bottles…

Case 1.
2001 Lark Hill Cabernet Merlot (Canberra). Purchased from the (distinctly unfriendly) cellar door in April this year. I know it was vintage time, but I can’t recall a CD that was less welcoming. I got the feeling I was expected to come in, taste, buy, then leave. Barely anything I asked elicited much beyond a yes/no answer, the reserve pinot wasn’t for tasting. It was all very disappointing, considering how generally good the wines were. We bought some 04 Riesling and Chardonnay under screwcap, along with a pair of this red. (The regular pinot was very green, and I wasn’t buying the reserve without tasting.) When the first bottle was corked, I just knew it was going to be an unpleasant phone call…

“Yes, we’re happy to replace it, just bring it back to the cellar door…”

Now I’d have sent them the bottle if they’d wanted, but it became clear they just weren’t interested in mailing replacements to anyone, whatever I did. The guy took down my details in a desultory kind of way, but by the time I spend $15 getting my bottle to them, and presumably funding them another $15 of postage and packaging to send me a replacement, it seems I may as well pour the original $28 bottle down the sink to begin with and just fume privately. I gather the whole range is under screwcap these days (reds were the last to change, and the older vintages), so one of my prime motivations for highlighting cork problems no longer exists. Anyway, despite what seem to be pretty good wines, with their ‘stuff you’ attitude it’ll be a long time before I voluntarily lay down any more of my hard-earned in exchange for another Lark Hill wine…

Case 2
1998 Mount Pleasant OP & OH Shiraz (Hunter). Bought in the middle of 2002 from some long since corporatised bottle shop in Sydney’s northern suburbs. I rang the cellar door on this one as well, and got the same response. Eventually, when I made it clear that just dropping in to the Hunter wasn’t an option, they suggested I call the McWilliams HQ in Sydney. This was more straightforward, and the QA dept. promised my details would be passed to a rep. Many weeks passed, so that by the time he did arrive I’d be surprised if any TCA remained in the presumably rather oxidized bottle I presented him with. Anyway, he began to talk about the randomness of cork taint, etc. I’d opened a second bottle to confirm my initial suspicions anyway, I told him. Then,

GG: ‘I’ll give you some free consumer feedback about getting rid of cork taint. Put it under a screwcap.”

McW: “We are doing that with some of our wines now.”

GG: “Oh good. New release OP & OH?”

McW: “Er, no, I don’t think so.”

GG: “Oh. What about Lovedale? Are you putting Lovedale under screwcap?”

McW: “Ah, no, I don’t think so.”

GG: “See, that’s a tragedy. And for you too. Because the new vintages of Vat 1 are under screwcap, which is what I’ll buy.”

McW: “Oh no, God, don’t do that…”

If the consumer is king, then it certainly felt good to issue an edict. I see plenty of Hanwood under screwcap. Methinks McWilliams has its priorities wrong – it’s starting with screwcaps at the wrong end of the range. Another few days, and a couple of bottles of 2000 Rosehill Shiraz arrive as restitution, with nice letter from the QA man, which, I can’t help noticing, discuses the impossibility of testing all corks for TCA but avoids all mention of screwcaps!

Case 3
1998 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec (Clare). Bought from the mail list in 2000 when a mate shared his allocation. I confess, my blood ran cold upon smelling this. A second bottle confirmed the tragedy (albeit it’s still a pretty closed wine even at 7 years of age). I thought long and hard about hitting a small winery with the claim, but, realistically, the consumer shouldn’t have to bear the cost. I was half expecting to have a debate with the winery and wrote a long letter (the telephone seems awfully modern for Wendouree, and I don’t think they even have an e-mail address) documenting my anguish, but Mr Brady sent a chivalrous handwritten note commiserating with me, and followed up with a replacement bottle; same wine, SAME VINTAGE. Extraordinary service from a class act. I never did get to find out if Wendouree will make the switch to screwcaps. Probably the one winemaking innovation of the last 50 years they could actually benefit from…

cheers,
Graeme

[action2096]

On the same note i just opened a bottle of charles melton 02 Shiraz to find it completely shot to pieces ! On closer inspection the cork is totally saturated throughout..

Purchased from a reputable retailer a couple of weeks ago. Been pretty lucky so far and have not had an issue with corked wines apart from a couple of cheapies which went down the sink but i'm buggered if i'm gonna do that with a bottle that cost me $40

In this case should i contact the retailer or Winery... Any ideas ??

[Steve]

A few years ago, Dad and I bought about five dozen bottles at a cellar door of a winery that was part of a large conglomerate. I honestly can't remember which winery, but it was down at Coonawarra. That bunch was riddled with QC problems - TCA, empty sealed bottles, and a bunch of other stuff I forget now. We took one of the empty sealed bottles back to the cellar door, and the staff there gave us about five dozen more bottles after we explained the trouble. A lot of the next lot was TCA contaminated, too, but we never bothered to do anything about it.

A while ago I bought a bottle of 98 Knappstein Enterprise Cabernet Sauvignon from Vintage Cellars. I took it home, opened it, and it was corky. I took it back about an hour after I bought it, and it was replaced.

I bought 2 bottles of 1996 Mitchell McNicol Shiraz back in April this year. The first was great, so I bought six more the next time I was in Clare. The second of the first batch was corky, the first of the second batch was OK, and three of the remaining 5 were corky. I was unable to go back to Clare for about 4 months, but after taking back the remaining bottle and explaining, they replaced each of the corky bottles, sight unseen, happily, with no questions asked. Same vintage and everything - and so far, they've all been great.

A bunch of other retailers have replaced corky bottles, without complaint. I've been pretty lucky with wineries and haven't bought too much corky wine at cellar doors.

[Davo]

On closer inspection the cork is totally saturated throughout..

And what has that got to do with cork taint?

[707 unplugged]

.....i'm buggered if i'm gonna do that with a bottle that cost me $40

In this case should i contact the retailer or Winery... Any ideas ??

Straight back to the retailer who should replace it no questions asked. They just get a replacement or credit from the distributor/winery.

Getting corked bottles replaced should never be a drama, TCA taint runs at about 10% I find and with the number of bottles I open that ends up alot of replacements.

[Guest]

On closer inspection the cork is totally saturated throughout..

And what has that got to do with cork taint?

Probably coincidental but makes one wonder if it was oxidised rather than TCA but the wine was "shot" apparently.

Roll on screwcaps!

[action2096]

On closer inspection the cork is totally saturated throughout..

And what has that got to do with cork taint?

When i opened the bottle immediately you could tell that it was badly corked.. The cork almost started to fall to pieces as i removed it from the bottle. Looking through the middle of the cork wine was saturated throughout it almost to the very top of the cork. Coinciendetal maybe but i have never opened a bottle of wine and seen the cork like this.

[Guest]

Continuing from what 707 said, what does the state of the cork crumbling or saturated have to do with the the wine being badly corked? How did the wine taste or smell? Was it musty, cardboardy?

A saturated/crumbly cork is not a badly corked wine.

[Brucer]

Regarding Charles Melton, I have been on the mailing list for a few years, and have had a number of corked wines.
Its never a problem for them. I send the bottle back and they send me 2 bottles, one current vintage of the corked one, and a bottle of something else, to cover my postage.
Bruce

[Guest]

Case 3
1998 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec (Clare). Bought from the mail list in 2000 when a mate shared his allocation. I confess, my blood ran cold upon smelling this. A second bottle confirmed the tragedy (albeit itÂ’s still a pretty closed wine even at 7 years of age). I thought long and hard about hitting a small winery with the claim, but, realistically, the consumer shouldnÂ’t have to bear the cost. I was half expecting to have a debate with the winery and wrote a long letter (the telephone seems awfully modern for Wendouree, and I donÂ’t think they even have an e-mail address) documenting my anguish, but Mr Brady sent a chivalrous handwritten note commiserating with me, and followed up with a replacement bottle; same wine, SAME VINTAGE. Extraordinary service from a class act. I never did get to find out if Wendouree will make the switch to screwcaps. Probably the one winemaking innovation of the last 50 years they could actually benefit fromÂ…

cheers,
Graeme

Graeme, I felt exactly the same as you about returning a corked bottle to Wendouree, was convinced by others to write to them , did so and had the same result as you. Wonderful service.

Buzz

[Davo]

When i opened the bottle immediately you could tell that it was badly corked.. The cork almost started to fall to pieces as i removed it from the bottle.

This has absolutely zip to do with cork taint.

You have said nothing about how the wine smelled or tasted. What was the wine like?

Wine taint, corked wine, TCA are all the same thing and have nothing at all to do with the physical condition of the cork.

[action2096]

When i opened the bottle immediately you could tell that it was badly corked.. The cork almost started to fall to pieces as i removed it from the bottle.

This has absolutely zip to do with cork taint.

You have said nothing about how the wine smelled or tasted. What was the wine like?

Wine taint, corked wine, TCA are all the same thing and have nothing at all to do with the physical condition of the cork.

I get the impression that maybe i'm upsetting some of the 'Purists' on the forum. The wine was corked. I may not be an expert but that much i do know.. Whether the condition of the cork contributed to this or not i don't know and frankly don't care. The comment regardings the state of the cork was merely an observation as i had not seen a cork like it before. My question was more about who the wine should be returned to ie: Winery or retailer.. End of story

[Brucer]

action2096
I have had quite a few corks over the years that fall to bits like that. Ive nearly hit myself in the head with a pull corkscrew once, when it simply pulled the middle of the cork out. None of these stuffed corks have effected the wine, nor given it TCA.
I guess your just unlucky to have that and have it corked as well.
Ive even had some wines with a white fungus growing under the cap, but these wines have been okay.
I think we need to give corks the boot!
Bruce

[TORB]

I get the impression that maybe i'm upsetting some of the 'Purists' on the forum. The wine was corked. I may not be an expert but that much i do know.. Whether the condition of the cork contributed to this or not i don't know and frankly don't care. The comment regardings the state of the cork was merely an observation as i had not seen a cork like it before. My question was more about who the wine should be returned to ie: Winery or retailer.. End of story

Don't worry about Davo - his bite is worse than his bark and as he lives on the left coast, you are safe. (And I don't think he has rabies even though he can be rabid at times. - Almost as rabid as me. )

If the retailer is convenient, that would be my first stop. If that's difficult or you don't have any joy, then contact the winery directly.

[lantana]

On the same note i just opened a bottle of charles melton 02 Shiraz to find it completely shot to pieces ! On closer inspection the cork is totally saturated throughout..

Purchased from a reputable retailer a couple of weeks ago. Been pretty lucky so far and have not had an issue with corked wines apart from a couple of cheapies which went down the sink but i'm buggered if i'm gonna do that with a bottle that cost me $40

In this case should i contact the retailer or Winery... Any ideas ??

Return it to the retailer, but if it was only a crumbly cork, they probably won't greet you with open arms, however if they are reputable, they'll probably replace it anyway. I don't mean to sound patronising & I apologise if your wine knowledge/experience is more so than your post reveals, but for a wine to be corked it must have some form of taint, usually from 2,4,6-trichloroanisole (TCA), which smells like wet dog or mouldy cardboard. As Davo & the others alluded to, there have been many a great bottle with a crumbly cork.

lantana

[Davo]

I get the impression that maybe i'm upsetting some of the 'Purists' on the forum. The wine was corked. I may not be an expert but that much i do know..

I am not a purist but you still have not given a description of the wine, and without that I fail to be convinced that the wine was corked, or for that matter that you even know what a corked wine is.

No winery or retailer will refund or replace on the evidence you have provided, and that is the crux of the matter.

[Guest]

[quote="Davo
I am not a purist but you still have not given a description of the wine, and without that I fail to be convinced that the wine was corked, or for that matter that you even know what a corked wine is.

[quote]

The guy asked who he should return it too. Why does he need to convince you about anything?
If you can't help don't bother getting involved.

Trev

[Davo]

The guy asked who he should return it too. Why does he need to convince you about anything?
If you can't help don't bother getting involved.

Trev

My dear Guest Trev. He does not have to convince me of anything, but if you are going to call someone's product corked in a public forum then you really should at least ry and look as though you know what you are talking about.

First he calls the wine "completely shot to pieces" and then goes on to describe the cork.

Then when asked for descriptors of the wine he just replies "When i opened the bottle immediately you could tell that it was badly corked.. The cork almost started to fall to pieces as i removed it from the bottle. Looking through the middle of the cork wine was saturated throughout it almost to the very top of the cork. Coinciendetal maybe but i have never opened a bottle of wine and seen the cork like this." again describing the cork but not the wine.

Again when asked for descriptors of the wine he replies with "The wine was corked. I may not be an expert but that much i do know"

Now, to be honest, I really don't give a flying rats clacker either way. But here we have someone impugning a product on a public forum who obviously can't:-

a) answer a straight question
or
b) provide enough descriptors of the wine to prove he even knows what a corked wine is.

It in all probability was an oxidised bottle rather than corked and he should still return it to the retailer. On the other hand it could be that he just didn't like the wine.

And if he is just going to come onto a forum such as this and think he can bluster his way through a discussion he will never learn anything, and the only thing he will ever know for sure about wine is that he "may not be an expert but that much i do know."

And if that isn't ok with you I don't give a flying fig about that either.

[action2096]

Davo,

I am not trying to convince you or anyone else on this forum of anything and i am at a loss as to why you seem to have taken it on yourself to have a dig at me for what i thought was a fairly innocent question ie: should the retailer or winery be the first port of call to get the bottle replaced.

For one last time i will try and set the record straight.

The bottle i opened on friday night was corked or what i (the non expert as you are all to clear to point out) believe to be corked.. ie: mouldy/musty/cardboard type smell & taste to the wine. (i thought this was a given when i said corked but maybe not)

My other observations regarding the condition of the cork were just that.. observations.. In my limited experience i have not seen a cork in such a poor state for a wine that is only 3 years old. Whether or not the condition of the cork contributed to it being corked.. Who knows.. Frankly who cares. As far as i am concerned life is to short...

As for your comment maybe i just didn't like the wine then i find those laughable to be honest.. Opened up a second bottle the same night and thoroughly enjoyed it.. Still have the original corked bottle so maybe i should send it over to WA for some 'expert analysis'

[Davo]

Well thankyou for finally giving a descriptor of the wine rather than the cork. It was your lack of clarity that got me going and this conversation format is not particularly suited to mind reading. I don't know you from a bar of soap so how would I know whether you knew what a corked wine was or not.

Don't bother sending the bottle over here because I don't particularly like CM wines.

[Ian S]

Whether or not the condition of the cork contributed to it being corked.. Who knows..

Actually an interesting point - is cork taint more prevalent in poor quality corks? I'd assumed not, but it gets you thinking. If Tyson's around I'm sure he'll have some info.

Don't get put off from posting by this - occasionally the odd post generates a bit of heat and misunderstandings do occur. I think you've clarified your earlier comments well.
regards
Ian

[GRB]

I don't wish to stir up any extra agro here but I hope I can add a little. Just a guess here but TCA is most likely leached from the cork. Now if the cork is very porous as described in this wine there would be more surface area in contact with the wine so you would probably get a lot more TCA in the wine. Hence very badly corked wine.

I opened a bottle the other night that had a very wet cork and the wine was off. I am no expert either but I believe the spoiling was oxidisation. It was definately not TCA affected. Called Kemeneys where I purchased the wine from and they were happy to refund the value. They indicated they would replace the wine but they would prefer to save on freight and just refund me. The wine was nothing special so I happily agreed.

2 points I am making here the condition of the cork was not the cause of the problem but probably made the taint worse and score 1 point for Kemeneys for service.

Glen

[Guest]

Based on my (lengthy) experience:

1. You can gt cork taint in a wine with a perfect-looking, long cork in good physical condition (eg the 1994 Jasper Hill Georgia' Paddock Shiraz I opened on friday night )

2. A wine from a bottle with a crumbly cork can be quite fine (many examples, many old Penfolds reds have crumbly corks, the wine is often fine).

3. A saturated or leaking cork is more often associated with an oxidised wine, as if wine is getting out air is probably getting in. This could be the fault of the cork, bottle or heat exposure of the bottle before or after delivery. A saturated cork may sometimes be a cause of cork taint as well, but the amount of TCA evident in the wine does not seem to correlate to the degree of saturation of the cork, ie most corked wines I've encountered do not have saturated corks. I've had a number of badly oxidised wines where the cork seemed quite sound ("random oxidation").

4. There is a vast difference in the symptoms of oxidation and cork taint. They may occur together, but very seldom in my experience.
5. There a numerous other faults that can occur in wine, the top 3 these days seem to be TCA, brett and oxidation, roughly in that order, others are various sulphur-based faults, actetone, aldehydes bacterial spoilage (uncommon), etc etc.

6. Different people have difference sensitivities to various faults, particularly TCA and brett where some people will happily enjoy wines that some others find offensively tainted.

So, in his abrupt way, Davo is perfectly correct, the physical condition of the cork appears to have a low correlation to the actual type of fault or degree of taint (except perhaps for oxidation).

If you want to find out more about faults and their characteristics do a web search, there is a lot of info out there. Or buy an aroma kit, such as the fault kit from "Le Nez du Vin" and share the expense amongst some interested friends. Be warned though, focussing on faults once you learn to recognise them can ruin your enjoyment of wine for a while until you stop loking for faults first rather than looking for the good points first.

[Red Bigot]

Me of course! I've logged in 4 times, keeps dropping out!

[Guest]

PDF file of wine faults from www.aromadictionary.com.

http://www.aromadictionary.com/winefaults.pdf

And a few other useful links:
http://www.beveragebusiness.com/bbconte ... o1202.html

http://www.bbr.com/GB/wine-knowledge/fa ... QD1NR500CM

http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/flaws.htm

http://www.diwinetaste.com/dwt/en2003043.php

http://www.aswe.org.au/resources/tastin ... r:int=2004

[camw]

After a good long run, the TCA gremlins bit a couple of months ago. Here are three very different experiences while attempting to obtain replacements for cork-affected bottlesÂ…

...

Now IÂ’d have sent them the bottle if theyÂ’d wanted, but it became clear they just werenÂ’t interested in mailing replacements to anyone, whatever I did. The guy took down my details in a desultory kind of way, but by the time I spend $15 getting my bottle to them, and presumably funding them another $15 of postage and packaging to send me a replacement, it seems I may as well pour the original $28 bottle down the sink to begin with and just fume privately.

Under the trade practices act, the winery is responsible for freight costs to and from them in order to obtain a replacement. Wineries shouldn't be allowed to get away with providing a faulty product and then trying to skirt their legal obligations.

[Red Bigot]

Had a corked 1994 Jasper Hill Georgia's paddock on Friday night, tried to fax them a few times over the weekend without success (engaged tone all the time).

Anyway, I successfully faxed them this morning, and had a reply fax within 5 minutes from Ron Laughton agreeing to replace it, I'm happy with the latest vintage as I want to try it anyway.