Croser leaves Lion Nathan / Petaluma?
Croser leaves Lion Nathan / Petaluma?
A headline on the Jancis Robinson site seems to indicate Brian Croser has finally left Petaluma, details require membership. I guess his new ventures must be reaching critical mass by now, it's a tough climate to debut a new wine range.
Cheers
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
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wizz unlogged
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Guest
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Guest
I think steve's point might go something like this:
for extra-curricular activities: croser is a legend, a leader, and hugely admired by those who it is worth being admired by.
for his own wines: they should be better. any other decent winemaker would do just as good a job, if not better. the petaluma wines are good, but not as good as you'd hope them to be.
there would be widespread agreement on this.
for extra-curricular activities: croser is a legend, a leader, and hugely admired by those who it is worth being admired by.
for his own wines: they should be better. any other decent winemaker would do just as good a job, if not better. the petaluma wines are good, but not as good as you'd hope them to be.
there would be widespread agreement on this.
Anonymous wrote:for his own wines: they should be better. any other decent winemaker would do just as good a job, if not better. the petaluma wines are good, but not as good as you'd hope them to be.
there would be widespread agreement on this.
Basically I completely disagree with that statement.the Petaluma Coonawarra, from my perspective is a terrific wine that is good even in many of the poorest years. The 1992 for example would have to be one of the best Cabernet Sauvignons of the vintage.
They cellar well too, the 91 still has years in front of it and the last time I tried the 94, at 11 years of age, it was still a baby. And the wine can generally be had for close to $40 which is exceptionally good value.
There are not too many winemakers in Coonawarra that have been able to turn out wines as consistently good, for as long as Croser.
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bacchaebabe
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:04 pm
- Location: Sydney
Interesting. I was just thinking the other day after spying the petaluma in Ric's cellar that the price of these wines hasn't changed virtually at all. When I first started collecting and was getting Eileen Hardy Shiraz for $22, the petaluma was around $36. Ten years later its about $42 (both dozen prices on special) but compared to what you can pay for the eileen hardy, it's pretty good buying these days, whereas it used to feel quite expensive.
The riesling's hovered around the same price of $20 for ages too.
The riesling's hovered around the same price of $20 for ages too.
Cheers,
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
Maybe it was a bit harsh but I've never been rapt in his wine efforts. Alot of hype about them, particularly 10-20 years back but even the much vaunted whites my friends tell me didn't stand up young or mature in blind line ups.
He has loomed large over the industry landscape for some time, not always positively either.
He has loomed large over the industry landscape for some time, not always positively either.
Cheers - Steve
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
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Guest
Anonymous wrote:Petaluma Coonawarra is a very good wine, but his chardonnays, sparkling, riesling and shiraz are good wines, often very enjoyable, but not exceptional.
I think a lot of people, in the above context, would argue that Petaluma has never fully realised its immense promise.
And how many "exceptional" Sparkling wines and Chardonays are there from the (Picadillyy Valley) Adeliade Hills, how many great Shiraz from the (Mount Barker) Adelaide Hills; so that leaves a Riesling; how many great one are there at $20, even if they are from Clare?
Just a differnt perspective on the expectation for exceptional wines.
Well allthough I'm not a big White drinker, if / when I see Picadilly chardonay for $19.00 I buy 6, my wife & her friends are always happy when she pulls out a bottle. As for the Cabernet / Merlot blend, I buy when ever I can, it is a superb blend and until this column, never heard anyone say otherwise. This is the wine I open when someone asks me about Coonawarra! I would be happy to have 3 or 4 cases on hand. Definitely a favorite.
Can't comment too much on Brians individual contribution but going by the Cab / Merlot he's bought plenty of pleasure to my pallet so in his honour you will see Petaluma on my T/N over this coming weekend, anyone else raise a glass over the weekend on a Petaluma mass T/N???
Good luck to Brian, I'll look for his next label.
Mick.
Can't comment too much on Brians individual contribution but going by the Cab / Merlot he's bought plenty of pleasure to my pallet so in his honour you will see Petaluma on my T/N over this coming weekend, anyone else raise a glass over the weekend on a Petaluma mass T/N???
Good luck to Brian, I'll look for his next label.
Mick.
"Compromises are for relationships, not wine."
I'm not gong to try and fish out all the quotes, but some more thoughts:
Like I said, Croser hasnt done most of the winemaking for some time, but I understand from a few cellar door visits - I'm sure many of you have met Hugh - that Croser has remained hands on to some degree for many years.
I agree, the Coonawarra is a great wine, this showed in a vertical we did in January from 1990 to 2001.
There is a comment further up that just about everything else is good but not exceptional and the connotation is that this is bad. Hey, find me another winery that can be this consistent across the board! I agree with Ric here.
Personally I think the Chardonnays are the big disappointment, when something as good as the Shaw and Smith can be made nearby, I wonder what Petaluma are up to.
Soooo...I dont think Croser's presence or absence will make much difference to the quality of the wines. You'll love them or hate them just the same as before.
AB
Disclaimer: My Trusty RB's cellar master tells me I currently own 8 bottles of Petaluma wine, but have owned much more in the past. I have visited the cellar door twice.
Like I said, Croser hasnt done most of the winemaking for some time, but I understand from a few cellar door visits - I'm sure many of you have met Hugh - that Croser has remained hands on to some degree for many years.
I agree, the Coonawarra is a great wine, this showed in a vertical we did in January from 1990 to 2001.
There is a comment further up that just about everything else is good but not exceptional and the connotation is that this is bad. Hey, find me another winery that can be this consistent across the board! I agree with Ric here.
Personally I think the Chardonnays are the big disappointment, when something as good as the Shaw and Smith can be made nearby, I wonder what Petaluma are up to.
Soooo...I dont think Croser's presence or absence will make much difference to the quality of the wines. You'll love them or hate them just the same as before.
AB
Disclaimer: My Trusty RB's cellar master tells me I currently own 8 bottles of Petaluma wine, but have owned much more in the past. I have visited the cellar door twice.
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Guest
I wouldn't dispute his standing in the industry, his intellect, his 'admin skills' generally, in the sense of his deep involvement in all aspects of the wine game, his show judging, and the effect his mentoring has had on many others.
Judged just on his wines, though, I don't think he rises into the 'great' category. The Coonawarra was great in 79, good to excellent in the 90s, but largely a fad-driven failure for most of the 80s - even Croser's Gold Book marks acknowledgement that. The Petaluma whites are always very hit and miss - the chardonnay's reputation baffles me, unless you remove from the measure of a wines greatness its ability to improve with age. Perhaps much of his reputation has derived from the envelopes he's pushed in his winemaking, rather than the final results themselves?
Does he rank as a winemaker with Preece, Redman, O'Shea, Schubert? Nope. As a pioneer with Tyrrell, Wynn, Lake? Well, maybe, in the sense that he has pushed the 'distinguished site' concept (although that would hardly have been unknown to Schubert, for example).
But there are probably several winemakers still working whose 'life cellar achievements' I would cheerfully take over Croser's. John Wade, for one. Ian McKenzie (ex-Seppelt) might be another. I'll think of some more...
cheers,
Graeme
Judged just on his wines, though, I don't think he rises into the 'great' category. The Coonawarra was great in 79, good to excellent in the 90s, but largely a fad-driven failure for most of the 80s - even Croser's Gold Book marks acknowledgement that. The Petaluma whites are always very hit and miss - the chardonnay's reputation baffles me, unless you remove from the measure of a wines greatness its ability to improve with age. Perhaps much of his reputation has derived from the envelopes he's pushed in his winemaking, rather than the final results themselves?
Does he rank as a winemaker with Preece, Redman, O'Shea, Schubert? Nope. As a pioneer with Tyrrell, Wynn, Lake? Well, maybe, in the sense that he has pushed the 'distinguished site' concept (although that would hardly have been unknown to Schubert, for example).
But there are probably several winemakers still working whose 'life cellar achievements' I would cheerfully take over Croser's. John Wade, for one. Ian McKenzie (ex-Seppelt) might be another. I'll think of some more...
cheers,
Graeme
Graeme, that's the point I was making earlier when I was a bit short in my comments.
As a winemaker the lifetime body of work does not stand up to the general stature of the individual.
Don't think too long about other winemakers who are ahead, there's a stack of them.
As a winemaker the lifetime body of work does not stand up to the general stature of the individual.
Don't think too long about other winemakers who are ahead, there's a stack of them.
Cheers - Steve
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
707 wrote:As a winemaker the lifetime body of work does not stand up to the general stature of the individual.
Don't think too long about other winemakers who are ahead, there's a stack of them.
Steve,
To some extent the logic is true but in some ways it false. How can you compare a "lifetimes body of work" when they have occured decades appart with vastly differnet viticultural and technological aspectes involved in the equation.
TORB wrote:707 wrote:As a winemaker the lifetime body of work does not stand up to the general stature of the individual.
Don't think too long about other winemakers who are ahead, there's a stack of them.
Steve,
To some extent the logic is true but in some ways it false. How can you compare a "lifetimes body of work" when they have occured decades appart with vastly differnet viticultural and technological aspectes involved in the equation.
Yes, but even judged against it's peers I don't think his results are always listed in the very top echelon. Not the way Cullen, or Moss Wood, or Rockford is. Perhaps the 98 Coonawarra has received plenty of acclaim, but you just don't see his reds or whites listed in the 'top half dozen' of anyone's lists of best wines of the vintage. It's not gospel I know, but even the Langton's classification has showed a steady decline in demand for most of Petaluma's wines - and this doesn't happen with great wines.
Haven't thought much about other makers; Stephen Henschke, Keith Mugford maybe. John Middleton, certainly - perhaps there is quite a list after all...!
cheers,
Graeme
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Guest
Well there is one. If they made a bit less and jacked there price upto Cullens,Moss Wood or around that $100 mark and it {Petaluma Coonawarra} became a little bit of a rarer treat then Im sure it would be viewed differently. The fact that its readily available at a good price takes away some of its special appeal factor away.
