TORB's Trading Plonk - Bloody Amazing

Adair · Post by **Adair** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:05 am

From Ric's website here: http://www.torbwine.com/trading.htm

Trading Plonk Page

The contents of this page have been removed on the insistence of the NSW Department of Gaming and Racing.

Someone complained about the site to the Department; apparently it is illegal to sell wine you own without a licence and if you want to sell wine, the only legal way to do it is via a licensed auction house.

The fact that all I was doing was putting buyers and seller in touch with each other makes me an agent; the fact that I was not getting paid a cent for it is immaterial. By helping people sell their wine I am open to prosecution.

Sad but true. So because one individual complained, all the people who used this free service are now deprived of it. The wine industry, and the people in it, have generally been exceptionally good to me, so I am not bitter and twisted about this situation; believing people normally wind up eventually getting exactly what they deserve in life and will leave it to a power bigger than I am (and I don't mean the Department of Gaming and Racing) to sort it out.

It is possible it may be able to be legally resurrected, which is something that I am looking into at present, but it will take some time.

I just thought people would be interetsed/amused/dumbfounded.

Adair

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:30 am

Yeah, that's the law for you, can't have those 15 year-old kids picking up some high-priced but bargain well-cellared reds to binge on.

Some time back I thought of doing something similar to Ric's trading plonk page and investigated getting an auctioneers/second hand goods licence, but it seemed too much effort at the time.

Gavin Trott · Post by **Gavin Trott** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:38 am

I wondered when I saw it too, but then i know about licencing laws and beaurocracy!

Shame, seemed a good, non profit service, Ric

707 · Post by **707** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:04 am

Stunningly amazing but then so many things are in life where governments are concerned.

I'm glad however that the taxpayers money is being put to good use employing people to clamp down on sinister things like the TORB wine swap column.

You wouldn't want to let this slip past and employ another copper to catch crims instead would you?

George Krashos · Post by **George Krashos** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:01 pm

Absolute disgrace IMO. When commonsense becomes an appreciated commodity in this country again, we'll all be far better off.

-- George Krashos

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:08 pm

It's a shame but it's not totally surprising. The licensing laws in this country are very strict and the licensing laws in NSW diabolical.

They also shut down sold.com and ebay in exactly the same way so at least they are consistant if nothing else.

Be interested to know who actually complained though. I expect it may have been one of the larger online wine auction houses.

bacchaebabe · Post by **bacchaebabe** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:10 pm

Doh! Me above - I always do this on my home computer.

Ryan Finn · Post by **Ryan Finn** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:04 pm

The real suprising thing is the naivety in TORB not conducting adequate due diligence on the concept before starting it.

I'd say TORB is lucky he wasn't charged WET/GST for all trades made through the site while it was in operation, particularly in NSW which has, to my reading, has tougher licensing laws than other states.

707 · Post by **707** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:29 pm

Bit rich Ryan, this was a fairly harmless column, hardly doing much trade either I would have thought.

How do they tackle this if you are not based in Australia?

Daryl Douglas · Post by **Daryl Douglas** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:27 pm

Puts me in mind of some of those Hagar The Horrible comic strips featuring tax collectors...............I wonder how long I'll be able to afford to breathe air that I've paid tax for on the pollutants that I have to pay tax for to clean the air.

daz

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:59 am

Ryan Finn wrote:
I'd say TORB is lucky he wasn't charged WET/GST for all trades made through the site while it was in operation, particularly in NSW which has, to my reading, has tougher licensing laws than other states.

Ryan,

You obviously know nothing about the tax laws. Firstly, (now) WET is only payable by the larger producers and once it has been paid once it never has to be paid again no matter how many times a wine changes hands. Once GST has been paid at retail, the goods are deemed to be 'second hand' under then act and GST is then not payable if reselling the wine provided it is being sold as a hobby.

If a private indivudal sells wine through an auction there is no GST payable even if a business buys the wine. The only GST that is paid is on the auction commission. If a business sells the wine through an auction, they have to pay GST on the revenue and if another business buys it, they can claim it back. In none of these cases, is WET invloved when it comes to auction.

So as for my " being lucky I wasn't charged WET/GST for all trades made through the site while it was in operation," there was no luck involved.

As for "due diligence" - tell me how many people complete due diligence when they are embarking on a hobby that does not generate revenue and is designed to try and help others? :roll:

peterk · Post by **peterk** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:12 am

TORB wrote:
Ryan Finn wrote:

As for "due diligence" - tell me how many people complete due diligence when they are embarking on a hobby that does not generate revenue and is designed to try and help others?

That about says it all I think.I personaly wish there was more of it.
Cheers
Peterk

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:07 am

Torb,

I thought your trading wine was a great idea and whom ever dobbed you in was a wankr, especially considering the extremely small amount of wine being traded.

I note your web site lists a NSW address and I assume that is why the NSW gaming & racing was involved.

A few suggestions as follows;

I'm not sure what the laws are in other states but maybe you could list another address on your site, eg. an SA address. Therefore, the NSW gaming & racing should be eliminated from the equation.

Alternatively, you could try setting up a deal with a retailer (such as Auswine) whereby people could trade wine. If you were to set up a deal with a retailer (such as Auswine) then maybe you could charge a nominal fee as I doubt a small fee would affect the trading of the wine, and certainly beats the fees which the auction houses are seeking. If the trading wine gets too big then you could always increase the nominal fees to make it profitable but with fees still far less then the auction houses.

MatthewW · Post by **MatthewW** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:36 am

Gosh Ryan, if I was doing a "due dligence" I would know whom NOT to consult!!!

Matthew