TNs: Studies in Oak - 91 St george vs. 92 John Riddoch

Baby Chickpea · Post by **Baby Chickpea** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:57 am

1991 Lindemans St George Coonawarra Cabernet Sauvignon
Excellent colour of mid to deep red. Barest hint of brown. Nose of blackberries, blackurrants and black fruits and oak. Palate? Oak. Very oaky. Very dry finish with quite evident 13% alcohol. Good fruit washed out by strong oak (despite being French). WonÃƒâ€šÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t get better. Elegant style with very good length. Quite possibly the best St George since 1980 (notwithstanding rampant bottle variation between green capsicum and brillance) and possibly the 1976.
88/100

1992 Wynns Limited Release John Riddoch Coonawarra Cabernet Sauvignon
Mid red. Purple core. Opaque to light. Excellent colour. Nose is slightly mouse-y. Oaky. Deep black fruits. Oaky. Smoky herbs. Oaky. Palate is slightly astringent and tannic. Oaky. Lacks fruit weight to counteract the oak. Not at all very enjoyable and perhaps worst John Riddoch ever. Sold all mine at auction and took a massive loss. Caveat emptor!
84/100

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:05 am

Danny,
Is there something about the John Riddoch that makes it hit and miss? I have tried it at different times and loved it / not loved it. I can not quote the years as I've only recently started taking notes and paying attention to details.
I have a '97 I was going to let sit now I'm unsure. Would you care to share your oppinion? I have had a '96 Michaels (last year) and it blew me away, orsome Shiraz. Thought they'd be on par.
Cheers,
Mick.

Baby Chickpea · Post by **Baby Chickpea** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:12 am

Hi Mick

I've had the 92 and 97 JT several times since release. My feeling is that mediocre vintages of JR drink well early on but, with time, get worse as with the 1992. The last time I had the 97 JR was in 2003 and while a good wine (not exceptional) I don't think it will improve much. The key I think is the vintage, especially for Coonawarra cabernet wines. Great vintages like 1986, 1990, 1991, 1996 and 1998 should be consistently fne throughout their evolution. Others like 1984, 1985, 1992, 1993, 1996 I find very variable as time goes by. No rush to drink the 97 JR but i reckon there's not much improvement to be had from keeping it.

Gregoire · Post by **Gregoire** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:09 pm

I have one 1994 JR and one 1994 Michael. That's it. Time to drink up perhaps?

Baby Chickpea · Post by **Baby Chickpea** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:11 pm

Both 94s are big brutish wines with plenty of tannin. No hurry. Vey good vintages but will they ever come around? Who knows ... I'm keeping mine fingers crossed).

FatBoy · Post by **FatBoy** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:21 pm

I've had a 1992 John Riddoch last year and loved it. Not in the slightest as you've described. The comparison with 1997 is way off the mark IMHO. 1997 is truly awful and shouldn't have been released.

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:58 pm

OK,
I'll open the '97 JR sometime next week (working all weekend) and post my sentiments.
Stay tuned,
Mick.

707 · Post by **707** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:39 pm

Having drunk alot of JR over the years I agree with the comments that the lesser years drink well early but then decline.

1992 is IMO the weakest of the Peter Douglas made wines and interesting that there was no 1992 Michael which indicates the geberal weakness of 1992 in Coonawarra.

1997 I'm not thrilled about and I bought only a handful.

Great years like 1982, 1986, 1990, 1991, 1996, 1998 will live long and drink well for a long period.

1994 JR and Black Label I'm confused about. They are big brooding wines that at eleven years of age are yielding little that might out live me and still be sound but ungiving. I keep hoping everytime I open one that it will have blossomed since last look.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:48 pm

707 wrote:1994 JR and Black Label I'm confused about. They are big brooding wines that at eleven years of age are yielding little that might out live me and still be sound but ungiving. I keep hoping everytime I open one that it will have blossomed since last look.

I've had a dozen or so of the Black Label over the last year, and the last 3-4 bottles were the best, the fruit really starting to come out, or maybe it was just that the tannins had softened. Very good right now, certainly better than ever...and now I have none left :cry:

As to the John Riddoch, I love 1994, but you'll need to give it plenty of breathing time or there's 'nothing there'. Try 8 hours at the right temperature (19-20 deg.?), and you should be very pleasantly surprised, it certainly does blossom; with some air, it's a stunner.

Cheers

Jakob

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:09 pm

The '97 JR. Opened yesterday at 2:00pm and poored into the faithful 'Duck', the nose was suprisingly generous, lots of fruit and some perfume / flowery notes. When tasted it had generous fruit some tobaco nuances but more than anything I was suprised at how well balanced it was. I took the wine in the decanter into my basement where I left it for four hours. I was very plesently suprised and expecting it it to really open up over the next few hours.

I pulled the wine back out at 6:00pm while cooking. I poored the glass and not a lot of change, some floral notes that seemed to have faded not enhanced, the fruit had dropped a bit and the Tannins were about the same, the most noticable nuance was a smokey / cigar like leafyness.

After another 3 more hr's it was a wash. The aromas first noted just wer'nt there, the fruit was faded out, the feel was light and I struggled through the last glass, well actually tipped the last half a glass out.

So it opened well and did not improve with decanting, then became just another average wine (at best). If I had another bottle I would not decant it, because before decanting I was actually quite impressed especially after expecting to be let down. I have 10 '01 black labels that have more fruit and more enjoyable IMHO.

Cheers,
Mick.

707 · Post by **707** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:47 am

Jakob wrote: I've had a dozen or so of the 1994 Wynns Black Label over the last year, and the last 3-4 bottles were the best, the fruit really starting to come out, or maybe it was just that the tannins had softened. Very good right now, certainly better than ever...and now I have none left
As to the John Riddoch, I love 1994, but you'll need to give it plenty of breathing time or there's 'nothing there'. Try 8 hours at the right temperature (19-20 deg.?), and you should be very pleasantly surprised, it certainly does blossom; with some air, it's a stunner.

I might wheel out a few 94s to try then, maybe a double decant and extended breathing might be the way to go.

I'm planning a vertical 90s Wynns Black for Blacktongues next year which will be very interesting I'm sure.