Zork closures

707 · Post by **707** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:50 pm

Had a wander through McLaren Vale yesterday, not much exciting wine wise but did come across a number of wines using the new Zork closure.

Made of medical grade plastic, this is one sexy and effective closure.

I reckon it may be superior to screw caps (gut feel) but unfortunately for Zork (and maybe us) it arrives just as screw cap closures have taken a large chunk of the same market. Remember how due to Sony's pig headedness we ended up with the inferior VHS as the standard instead of the original and technically far superior Beta.

I did grab a number of Zorks to use in bottles at home as temporary closures rather than pushing upside down corks into the small bottles I use for the remains of part drunk bottles. Very handy.

Muscat Mike · Post by **Muscat Mike** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:02 pm

Are they as hard to open as other plastic corks Steve?
MM.

707 · Post by **707** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:26 pm

No they're not a plastic cork. They are a soft plastic stopper with air inside to give the compression and spring needed to seal. Something like a tawny port stopper but the cork part is soft plasic with air inside.

They are on a few of the McLaren Vale reds so keep an eye out for them.

Need your address too Mike!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:34 pm

Corks are good but too inconsistent.

Crown seals are underatted.

Screwcaps are not the longterm answer they are a CHEAP OPTION FOR WINERIES.

And the answer is? A screw cap to keep everything air tight but a cork inside for the flavour and aging potential. TRUST ME NOTHING WILL WORK BETTER THAN THIS FOR BOTH WINERIES AND CONSUMER IF THEY ARE PREPARED TO SPEND THE EXTRA CENTS.

markg · Post by **markg** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:35 pm

I have seen the Zork van zipping around Magill on occassion...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:46 pm

Anonymous wrote: And the answer is? A screw cap to keep everything air tight but a cork inside for the flavour and aging potential. TRUST ME NOTHING WILL WORK BETTER THAN THIS FOR BOTH WINERIES AND CONSUMER IF THEY ARE PREPARED TO SPEND THE EXTRA CENTS.

Don't think so Jim, you still have a piece of tree bark in contact with your wine giving AT LEAST 10% spoilage rate.

I'm fed up with cellaring wines until maturity to find them faulty.

I've never had a faulty wine under screw cap and seen some blinder whites from the mid 70s over the last three years or so.

Besides all the independent research that's come to light in the last twelve months indicates screw caps are as good as the BEST corks. The only thing you don't get is TCA or the flavour rotting tree bark imparts to a bottle of wine.

Screw caps will do me every time.

707 · Post by **707** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:49 pm

Anonymous wrote: And the answer is? A screw cap to keep everything air tight but a cork inside for the flavour and aging potential. TRUST ME NOTHING WILL WORK BETTER THAN THIS FOR BOTH WINERIES AND CONSUMER IF THEY ARE PREPARED TO SPEND THE EXTRA CENTS.

Don't think so Jim, you still have a piece of tree bark in contact with your wine giving AT LEAST 10% spoilage rate.

I'm fed up with cellaring wines until maturity to find them faulty.

I've never had a faulty wine under screw cap and seen some blinder whites from the mid 70s over the last three years or so.

Besides all the independent research that's come to light in the last twelve months indicates screw caps are as good as the BEST corks. The only thing you don't get is TCA or the flavour rotting tree bark imparts to a bottle of wine.

Nor is it about spending the "extra cents" on better corks, plenty of the best corks are crap too!
Screw caps will do me every time.

roughred · Post by **roughred** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:16 pm

Agree with 707, strongly disagree with guest.

Firstly, stelvin closures are not always the cheapest option. Certrainly cheaper than using hand picked or R1 corks for premiums, but at the commercial end cheap or composite corks are found to be marginally cheaper. Part of the reason that many entry level commercial wines are still released under cork.

Secondly, what "flavour" do you think cork is imparting in the wine?

Finally, as for "Trust me nothing will work better..." I may be more inclined to do so if your comments were not anonomous and had some sort of reasoning behind them.

LL

vinum-unlogged · Post by **vinum-unlogged** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:34 pm

Anonymous wrote:Corks are good but too inconsistent.

Crown seals are underatted.

Screwcaps are not the longterm answer they are a CHEAP OPTION FOR WINERIES.

And the answer is? A screw cap to keep everything air tight but a cork inside for the flavour and aging potential. TRUST ME NOTHING WILL WORK BETTER THAN THIS FOR BOTH WINERIES AND CONSUMER IF THEY ARE PREPARED TO SPEND THE EXTRA CENTS.

I would love to find out how they are cheaper.

Regards,
Colin

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:47 pm

Sounds more like low quility cork and or incorrect cellaring.I would love to know how many of the 30 year old wines youve had were professionally stored by you for the 30 years?

I havent seen too many people complaing about bad impact on flavour that corks have on a Grange. More cheap wine or cellared past its peak or not stored correctly would seem the problem.

If a wine is corked and air exposure the dual cork and cap would fix this.

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:53 pm

Sounds like our mystery guest is either a wind up merchant on a trawling expedition or a rocket scientist. :shock:

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:15 pm

Why dont you explain how it wouldnt then ric?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:31 pm

Anonymous wrote:Sounds more like low quility cork and or incorrect cellaring.I would love to know how many of the 30 year old wines youve had were professionally stored by you for the 30 years?

I havent seen too many people complaing about bad impact on flavour that corks have on a Grange. More cheap wine or cellared past its peak or not stored correctly would seem the problem.

If a wine is corked and air exposure the dual cork and cap would fix this.

My enquiry was based on; in terms of production. I like cork, however it is not an excellent closure. ROTE offers versatility, the AWRI released an extensive report on comparison between the two and shows little difference in ageability. I was merely asking how it would be cheaper to put wine under cork rather than ROTE, without trying to cause an arguement. Its irrelevant how many wines I have cellared over a thirty year period, the relevancy is how many bottles of wine I have to reject/replace due to closure failure over any said period of time.

An example; it would cost us more to put our wine under stelvin than it would to put it under cork (we use a high grade of hand select cork). There are pros and cons to this, being both industry placed and industry research placed, I see benefits for both closures.

Cheers
Colin.

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:08 pm

Anonymous wrote:Why dont you explain how it wouldnt then ric?

Simple; Corks = TCA!

Why do you need both belt and braces? Because thats what a cork and a Stelvin equates to.

Why should you need both if one or the other does the job it is supposed to.

roughred · Post by **roughred** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:13 pm

Guest,

If a wine is corked, it is corked, a stelvin closures will not alter that fact. It's a little like putting a chastity belt on a pregnant woman. Placing a stelvin closure over a cork does nothing to minimise the risk of trichloroanisole (TCA) taint via the cork.

Oxidation is an entirely separate issue related to permeability of the closure, a negligible issue with both stelvin and quality corks. If you are indeed a wind up merchant, you're doing extremely well. If by chance you are a rocket scientist, god help our brave astronauts.

LL

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:49 pm

Well, apart from all the other wrongheaded things the wind-up merchant guest has said, I was at a Penfolds 'do' when four bottles of 86 Grange had to be opened before a single representative bottle could be found, and all these bottles were from the Penfolds cellars. I was at another function when the bottle of 98 Grange that we were served was corked. Never heard anyone complain about corks and Grange? Clearly, you haven't been around premium wine all that much.

J2.

707 · Post by **707** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:48 pm

Why not have the courage to say who you are guest?

Our pro cork guest seems quite ingorant of real facts - he actually thinks screwcaps are cheaper than corks, thinks corks impart some kind of magical nuance to aged wines, hasn't caught up on the latest research, etc.

This is the kind of flat earth type that has a snob problem with screwcaps.

As for asserting that Grange doesn't have cork problems, I'd suggest he's never owned a bottle in his life. I'm not a huge Grange consumer but have had quite a number that have ranged in TCA taint levels from flat to rotten socks.

Long Ref 1 corks are superior to lesser corks mainly because they are denser and therefore highly unlikely to have problems other than TCA.

And Mr.Guest, I have got wines I've stored correctly for nearly 30 years which makes it even more distressing when I pull the cork on them to find cork related quality problems.

I suggest you watched how far you drive, you may fall off the edge of the earth.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:04 pm

Very gullable if you beleive screwcaps cost more

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:20 pm

Anonymous wrote:Very gullable if you beleive screwcaps cost more

Care to fill us in on where your information on costs comes from?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:26 pm

Problem is that there are many different costs for corks. Some cost more than screwcaps, some cost less. The only ones gullible are those who makes stupid comments about the reliability of corks. Grange doesn't have problems with corks hahahahahahahahaha, been laughing for 12 hours over that clanger!!!

lantana · Post by **lantana** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:32 pm

Anonymous wrote: If a wine is corked and air exposure the dual cork and cap would fix this.

Anonymous,

Please explain what you mean here?? :shock:

lantana

n4sir · Post by **n4sir** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:43 pm

markg wrote:I have seen the Zork van zipping around Magill on occassion...

That's probably Ben Shilitto who just happens to work at Penfolds CD too!

Cheers
Ian

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:26 pm

Anonymous wrote:Problem is that there are many different costs for corks. Some cost more than screwcaps, some cost less. The only ones gullible are those who makes stupid comments about the reliability of corks. Grange doesn't have problems with corks hahahahahahahahaha, been laughing for 12 hours over that clanger!!!

Not all corks cost the same. Whaddya know, huh? I'm interested in the answer to my question:

Care to fill us in on where your information on costs comes from?

jayhawker · Post by **jayhawker** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:13 pm

Dear Guest,

Based on your spelling, grammar, and lack of any common sense, I would guess that you are probably not even old enough to drink. If I am wrong, please prove it to all of us by answering the questions posed to you previously, using correct spelling, grammar, punctuation, and sound logic.

Oh, and please see your doctor as soon as possible. It appears that you need a stronger prescription.

vinum-unlogged · Post by **vinum-unlogged** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:35 pm

Anonymous wrote:Very gullable if you beleive screwcaps cost more

Having priced out the two options, from numerous suppliers, suitable for our application i dont see how my statements lead to a stereotypical labelling of being gullible.

Besides anonymous, I would be interested in the supplier of ROTE enclosures with suitable equipment, which would be cheaper than it is for me to put my wine under cork.

For all I know, you may be an industry body, the relevancy of this is however insignificant. I always take broad, generalised statements with little substantiation fairly lightly, as I did you accusation of me being gullible. I have been working and researching in the industry for many years (and called a lot worse), all I can report on is my experience.

Furthermore, I am interested in your statements.

Cheers
Colin.

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:02 pm

How much more proof do you guys need that this "guest" is a wind up merchant on a mission to suck you guys in. He/she is not worth the effort; they are just sitting back and laughing.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:25 pm

No i just luv debating with people who are so one eyed.Sometimes i even agree with you people even when i seem on the other side i just do it so you all spill your side of the argument.You see i gain alot of knowledge when people sing like an opera singer.

Im sure Torb you will agree that getting personal is not appropriate!!!Cmon Torb show your maturity and Condem it.

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:00 pm

Anonymous wrote:No i just luv debating with people who are so one eyed.Sometimes i even agree with you people even when i seem on the other side i just do it so you all spill your side of the argument.You see i gain alot of knowledge when people sing like an opera singer.

Im sure Torb you will agree that getting personal is not appropriate!!!Cmon Torb show your maturity and Condem it.

I seem to recognise your style; particularly the comment about "gaining a lot of knowledge." Seems we have been here previously.

As far as people "being one eyed" - that's a complete load of rubbish. Their points have been well put, in many cases a genuine attempt to help clarify facts where yours have just been a wind up. On a number of occasions you have asked people to "clarify and answer the question;" they have done as asked. You have made many statements that are outside the scope of most people understanding and when people have asked you to "answer the question" you have avoided them. In some cases with more of a wind up.

You have abused the hospitality offered to you so whilst I don not agree with anyone making it personal, I will not condem their actions in this case.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:18 pm

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Problem is that there are many different costs for corks. Some cost more than screwcaps, some cost less. The only ones gullible are those who makes stupid comments about the reliability of corks. Grange doesn't have problems with corks hahahahahahahahaha, been laughing for 12 hours over that clanger!!!

Or problem is people like you dont store them correctly or buy them without knowing any history then complain

stored at penfolds. served by penfolds. yep, that would be people who don't store them correctly.

:shock:

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:15 am

Anonymous wrote:No i just luv debating with people who are so one eyed.Sometimes i even agree with you people even when i seem on the other side i just do it so you all spill your side of the argument.You see i gain alot of knowledge when people sing like an opera singer.

Im sure Torb you will agree that getting personal is not appropriate!!!Cmon Torb show your maturity and Condem it.

Debate, you have got to be joking!

I never like getting involved in a discussion with a "guest" like this because the coward can hide behind the anonymous guest signature and hurl insult and injury while providing absolutely nothing of value to the thread. If you are going to spout bullshit have the guts (and the courtesy) that most of us do and put your name to it.

Mike