Just piggy backing off Smithy's cool climate Cabernet thread. Does the same climate debate rage with Shiraz. Personally I think most would accept that the warmer climates produce our top gun Shiraz, but when I started mentally adding up the number of prestige cool or intermediate climate Shiraz based wines I was surprised -
Castagna Genesis Syrah
Batteley Syrah (& Durif)
Giaconda Warners Shiraz
Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier
Houghton Gladstones Shiraz
Paringa Estate Shiraz
Seville Estate
Alkoomi "Jarrah"
Voyager Estate
Ata Rangi Syrah
Dalwhinnie Moonambel and Eagle
Bin 128
Bowen
Majella
and many many others ....
As with Cabernet, do we accept these styles because the two or three classics we might see every decade are worth the underipe and overpriced horrors we have to endure in between?
Look forward to your thoughts,
LL
How do you like your Shiraz?
LL,
Great list there. The 02 Castagna Genesis is one of very few wines I have rated higher than 95 points.
If you made the equivalent list of warm climate styles, it would probably run for pages.
I'm not sure I agree that we tolerate years and years of underripe cool climate rubbish to get those one or two years of bliss - the hit rate is a lot better than that. On the flip side, lets look at 91 to 2000 in the Barossa: 91, 96 and 98 and/or 99 are highly regarded. 3 or 4 out of 10 isnt so good!
Which style is better? Depends on your palate. I have both types in the cellar. A lot can go right or wrong within these two styles. There are nice Barossa, and there are hideous ones. Overoaking for example can ruin good fruit in a flash within either style.
Cheers
AB
Great list there. The 02 Castagna Genesis is one of very few wines I have rated higher than 95 points.
If you made the equivalent list of warm climate styles, it would probably run for pages.
I'm not sure I agree that we tolerate years and years of underripe cool climate rubbish to get those one or two years of bliss - the hit rate is a lot better than that. On the flip side, lets look at 91 to 2000 in the Barossa: 91, 96 and 98 and/or 99 are highly regarded. 3 or 4 out of 10 isnt so good!
Which style is better? Depends on your palate. I have both types in the cellar. A lot can go right or wrong within these two styles. There are nice Barossa, and there are hideous ones. Overoaking for example can ruin good fruit in a flash within either style.
Cheers
AB
Re: How do you like your Shiraz?
roughred wrote:How do you like your Shiraz?
Swirled, not shaken.
Moneypenny, how do you like your sirs as?
Sorry, couldn't help myselfMax
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Avant d’être bon, un vin doit être vrai
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Avant d’être bon, un vin doit être vrai
Re: How do you like your Shiraz?
Maximus wrote:roughred wrote:How do you like your Shiraz?
Swirled, not shaken.
Moneypenny, how do you like your sirs as?
Max
Obviously too much time alone, in a small room in a cold climate. Doctor G prescribes a week in the sun by the surf at a secret Central Queensland location.
Dr G
Chardonnay: A drink you have when there is no RED wine, the beer hasn't arrived and the water may be polluted
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Baby Chickpea
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Room in the cellar, and more importantly, my palate, for both cool and warm climate shiraz styles. Must be fruit driven and must be oak tamed. Why would you only want to drink the one style, however much you liked it?
Danny
The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. We must never be afraid to go too far, for success lies just beyond - Marcel Proust
The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. We must never be afraid to go too far, for success lies just beyond - Marcel Proust
Re: How do you like your Shiraz?
roughred wrote:As with Cabernet, do we accept these styles because the two or three classics we might see every decade are worth the underipe and overpriced horrors we have to endure in between?
Look forward to your thoughts,
LL
There's so many more too - Bannockburn, Seppelt GW St. P's, Best's Bin 0 and Thompson Family, Craiglee, Yering Station (S/V). Mount Langhi Ghiran, Summerfield Reserve (if you're into that kind of thing) ... admittedly most of these are from Victoria, but there seems to be at least as many good cool climate shirazes being produced as warm climate in Australia.
In terms of preference, I genuinely don't care - and suspect that most (except those ardent Victoria-hating South Australians) others are the same - ... Just so long as I enjoy drinking it.
The reality is that shiraz is more robust than Cabernet. There aren't nearly so many "horrors" you describe in shiraz - witness Dalwhinnie's amzingly consistent run over the last 14 vintages (exclude 1993, the only dud from this list) for example. Giaconda Warner vineyard as well has had an amazing success rate in its 4 (?) vintages to date.
Pricing is interesting: the absurdly expensive shiraz seems mostly to come from the warmer climes: Torbreck, Three Rivers/Chris Ringland, Noons, Wendouree, Greenock Creek etc. etc. Admittedly this is the secondary market driving these prices, but only Dalwhinnie Eagle & Wild Duck Creek among cooler climate wines seem to fall into the absurdly priced regions. Warner Vineyard (my best shiraz of the year) @ $60 represents very good value for mine ...
Cheers,
The Fat One
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Daryl Douglas
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