Guys,
I'm fairly new to this wine collection hobby and am still going through the early phases on educating my palate shall we say. I've read a number of tasting notes from people on this forum with comments such as 'Probably go another 10 years' 'Wouldn't touch this one for 5 years' etc etc
My question is what exactly are you looking for in a wine when you taste it with regards to cellaring potential ? I think i am at a point now where i can definetly tell a young wine from an old one but struggle to try and asess long term potential
Is it the nose, the tannin etc etc ??
I understand that this may not be an easy topic but am interested to hear opinions from the more experieced palates
Advice Wanted - Judging a wines ability to age
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action2096
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:00 am
- Location: Sydney - Australia
Action, Judging by your note on the Chalambar 2003 and comment on the 2002 I think you are already on the right track. FWIW I agree on the 2002 vs 2003 comparison, but Oliver gave the 2002 96 pts, drink to 2022.
To my mind it's all about balance, the fruit, tannins, alcohol and acid must be in proportions that work together, both for "elegant" low-alcohol (12-13%) and "bigger" higher alcohol wines (14% and upwards). There are two key things in learning to pick wines for cellaring:
1. Try to find out how mature you like your wines, by buying at auction or paying for tastings if you don't have other access to older wines.
2. Then you can find hopefully some younger / new vintages of the same wines that are of reasonably equivalent vintage quality and see what the older wines may have been like when young.
If you are lucky you will be able to do both of these at once, for example in a "vertical" tasting of various vintages of a wine, various merhcants and wineries sponsor these from time-to-time as well as various tasting groups..
Then you need a reasonable palate memory to be able to generalise what you have learned to unfamiliar wines that you are assessing. Assessing big and powerful young wines can be fairly difficult, the acid or tannins may tend to stick out a bit, or the fruit appear a little subdued, but you should still be able to find the intrinsic balance (as in the Chalambar 2003) or lack thereof. Don't be put off if only about 1 in 50 wines you taste really seems to hit all the right spots, there is a lot of wine made for early consumption or for various niche markets and a lot of (sometimes expensive) wine that just isn't up up to the price or has had a bad vintage.
Some people consider that if a partially emptied bottle of a young wine you like is recorked and left for a day or two, if it improves or remains relatively fresh without fading or turning volatile then that is indicative of a wine that will cellar well. In my experience it is a useful, often accurate, but not foolproof test.
After 35 years I still make mistakes, some wines just don't turn out like you expect or like other years of the same wine from supposedly similar vintages, but the majority of the wines I buy to cellar give me great pleasure down the track at anywhere from 5 to 20 years of age, depending on the wine, mostly I drink my reds around 7-8-10 years of age.
Another thing to do is try a few recommendations of some of the better wine writers, eg Halliday, Oliver, Mattinson and see which one you agree with most, I'm finding Jeremy Oliver drinking windows fairly accurate for wines in my cellar over recent years, although I perhaps prefer some a little younger.
A word of warning, if your tastes are still developing, don't buy a lot of any one wine, buy in 6-packs or even threes, there are numerous stories around of people who bought up big and had to sell off a lot of it as their tastes changed. I've been pretty much stuck in a wonderful red rut for the last 15-20 years, so I don't think my tastes are likely to change much.
To my mind it's all about balance, the fruit, tannins, alcohol and acid must be in proportions that work together, both for "elegant" low-alcohol (12-13%) and "bigger" higher alcohol wines (14% and upwards). There are two key things in learning to pick wines for cellaring:
1. Try to find out how mature you like your wines, by buying at auction or paying for tastings if you don't have other access to older wines.
2. Then you can find hopefully some younger / new vintages of the same wines that are of reasonably equivalent vintage quality and see what the older wines may have been like when young.
If you are lucky you will be able to do both of these at once, for example in a "vertical" tasting of various vintages of a wine, various merhcants and wineries sponsor these from time-to-time as well as various tasting groups..
Then you need a reasonable palate memory to be able to generalise what you have learned to unfamiliar wines that you are assessing. Assessing big and powerful young wines can be fairly difficult, the acid or tannins may tend to stick out a bit, or the fruit appear a little subdued, but you should still be able to find the intrinsic balance (as in the Chalambar 2003) or lack thereof. Don't be put off if only about 1 in 50 wines you taste really seems to hit all the right spots, there is a lot of wine made for early consumption or for various niche markets and a lot of (sometimes expensive) wine that just isn't up up to the price or has had a bad vintage.
Some people consider that if a partially emptied bottle of a young wine you like is recorked and left for a day or two, if it improves or remains relatively fresh without fading or turning volatile then that is indicative of a wine that will cellar well. In my experience it is a useful, often accurate, but not foolproof test.
After 35 years I still make mistakes, some wines just don't turn out like you expect or like other years of the same wine from supposedly similar vintages, but the majority of the wines I buy to cellar give me great pleasure down the track at anywhere from 5 to 20 years of age, depending on the wine, mostly I drink my reds around 7-8-10 years of age.
Another thing to do is try a few recommendations of some of the better wine writers, eg Halliday, Oliver, Mattinson and see which one you agree with most, I'm finding Jeremy Oliver drinking windows fairly accurate for wines in my cellar over recent years, although I perhaps prefer some a little younger.
A word of warning, if your tastes are still developing, don't buy a lot of any one wine, buy in 6-packs or even threes, there are numerous stories around of people who bought up big and had to sell off a lot of it as their tastes changed. I've been pretty much stuck in a wonderful red rut for the last 15-20 years, so I don't think my tastes are likely to change much.
Cheers
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
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Serge Birbrair
Red Bigot wrote:
A word of warning, if your tastes are still developing, don't buy a lot of any one wine, buy in 6-packs or even threes, there are numerous stories around of people who bought up big and had to sell off a lot of it as their tastes changed. I've been pretty much stuck in a wonderful red rut for the last 15-20 years, so I don't think my tastes are likely to change much.
I wish I read it 6 months ago....how true!
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action2096
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:00 am
- Location: Sydney - Australia
Don't overllok whites!
When considering buying some wines for aging check out some whites as well. Not many people consider aging whites so advice and experince is a bit harder to come by.
The advice above generally applies to whites, but I think that the key to assessing a young white wines potential is its acidity.
I have had success with aging riesling, (most cool areas, Vic, Eden and Clare valleys) Marsanne, esp Tahbilk, and Semilon (Hunter). I have never had an old sav blanc that was worth the trouble of aging.
I think that of the newer varieties Viogniers would be best. (Just a guess at this stage) I was told that Arneis is only good young but I am drinking 2001 Gary Crittenden i at the moment and it's very good.
I think a well made white should be OK for five-ten years, longer for the Hunter semillons.
Some whites go dumb for a few years after the initial freshness goes but they develop wonderful flavours after a couple more years. So if you try a botlle and it seems a bit flat don't despair, just wait a year before you open the next one!
Cheers
The advice above generally applies to whites, but I think that the key to assessing a young white wines potential is its acidity.
I have had success with aging riesling, (most cool areas, Vic, Eden and Clare valleys) Marsanne, esp Tahbilk, and Semilon (Hunter). I have never had an old sav blanc that was worth the trouble of aging.
I think that of the newer varieties Viogniers would be best. (Just a guess at this stage) I was told that Arneis is only good young but I am drinking 2001 Gary Crittenden i at the moment and it's very good.
I think a well made white should be OK for five-ten years, longer for the Hunter semillons.
Some whites go dumb for a few years after the initial freshness goes but they develop wonderful flavours after a couple more years. So if you try a botlle and it seems a bit flat don't despair, just wait a year before you open the next one!
Cheers
Darby Higgs
http://www.vinodiversity.com
http://www.vinodiversity.com
I think the Red Bigot has summed it up nicely.
Good cellarers generally have good balance at a young age and often get better with airing over two to three days.
Big doesn't always equate to long cellar life but there must be plenty of power to carry through a cellar stint.
Good cellarers generally have good balance at a young age and often get better with airing over two to three days.
Big doesn't always equate to long cellar life but there must be plenty of power to carry through a cellar stint.
Cheers - Steve
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!