French look for ways to catch up with New World

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:46 am

producers who "GOT IT"

http://www.winetalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=736

Let's hope they succeed before they throw another millions of AOC bottles to distillers.

NOBODY can sit on their laurels forever....

smithy · Post by **smithy** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am

So the French have decided to subsidize their wine industry to cope with "New World Challenges".....oops its not a subsidy (its money to promote the marketing of french wine.

Well, if they hadn't sold so much overpriced, underperforming to a world market with a Gallic arrogance for so long......maybe they wouldn't be in this mess.

French politics probably don't help them in the US market either.
"How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?---
Who knows....its never been done!

Cheers
Smithy

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:44 am

Smithy,
my intent of this thread was NOT bashing of France,
but rather a way of discussion the WINE BUSINESS and compliment the New World Business model, vs. and old one,
that's all.

Let's not have the "emotions" take the best of us,
as emotions counter productive in business discussion...

smithy · Post by **smithy** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:58 pm

Serge,
Sorry to BASH our little French freinds, its just I see the word subsidy and see red.

I am first and foremost an Australian farmer after all!

I was sort of commenting on reports that French foreign policy (especially on Iraq) has impacted on sales of French wines in the states. You must be in a better position to comment.

Totally agreed theres no place for bashing the opposition......Doesn't seem much need these days. I just hope the promotional material doesn't start talking about "industrial wine" from The New World.

Cheers
Smithy

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:11 pm

smithy wrote:8)

I just hope the promotional material doesn't start talking about "industrial wine" from The New World.

Cheers
Smithy

This won't work....and they know it. It's like telling children that McDonald is not good for them...how many children have that stopped from going there?

Consumer of today LOVES big wines and can't care less what label one puts on them.
My guess is the French winemakers will follow LoPlait yougurt and Perrier examples and start selling French wine with English Language labels telling consumer the grape used instead of just "Chateaux" and expecting consumer to know the rest.

This is 21st century and we have very lazy consumer on our hands.

Ian S · Post by **Ian S** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:46 pm

Serge wrote:
smithy wrote:8)

I just hope the promotional material doesn't start talking about "industrial wine" from The New World.

Cheers
Smithy

This won't work....and they know it. It's like telling children that McDonald is not good for them...how many children have that stopped from going there?

Consumer of today LOVES big wines and can't care less what label one puts on them.
My guess is the French winemakers will follow LoPlait yougurt and Perrier examples and start selling French wine with English Language labels telling consumer the grape used instead of just "Chateaux" and expecting consumer to know the rest.

This is 21st century and we have very lazy consumer on our hands.

Already started (and not before time), however it tends to be at the lower end of the market

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:13 am

ok, let's define the "market"

for me the market is "John Q Public" who shops at Pubix (pun intended),
as they spent the VAST majority of "vino-dollars".
The "oenophiles" are just a drop in the bucket compared to the people who buy wine. Let's not forget,
Gallo was #1 seller of wine in the world
(Before Castellation Brands bought Mondavi) and we know what Gallo produces.

"Sell to the masses, drink with the classes"

JuiceCowboy · Post by **JuiceCowboy** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:15 am

Serge wrote:
smithy wrote:8)

I just hope the promotional material doesn't start talking about "industrial wine" from The New World.

Cheers
Smithy

This won't work....and they know it. It's like telling children that McDonald is not good for them...how many children have that stopped from going there?

It may not work but you have to remember these are French Marketeers. They aren't as honed as the New World marketeers like those in Napa and Sonoma or marketeers in AU and South America.

They'll try it for a while and learn. We all know it won't work, but how has that stopped them before? They're experienced at making wine, we're experienced at marketing it. Just look, they're so confused that the gov't is subsidizing them. This will only delay their actions. They will be lulled into thinking "We're OK for now".

JC

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:25 am

There was a pull-out on Bordeaux in one of the recent issues of Wine Spectator. So I pulled it out! I had every intention of keeping it, honestly! But its gone. Lost in the mountain of other bits and pieces I get in the mail. I felt so embarrassed by the whole episode that I went out an actually bought a bottle of second growth Bordeaux from 2000. Who knows I may even end up drinking the stuff! What is even more embarrassing is having French employees who bring you bottles of French wine. If only they knew as much about wine as they do about Rugby! :shock:

Still I guess I am going to have to drink it at some stage.

Mike

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:31 am

KMP,
French Wine Guru says French know about wine less than I know about Melbourn Rugby teams

http://slate.msn.com/id/2104553

JuiceCowboy · Post by **JuiceCowboy** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:37 am

I still have that pullout. Its next to the master bathroom toilet where I do all my leisure reading. :lol:

KMP wrote:There was a pull-out on Bordeaux in one of the recent issues of Wine Spectator. So I pulled it out! I had every intention of keeping it, honestly! But its gone. Lost in the mountain of other bits and pieces I get in the mail. I felt so embarrassed by the whole episode that I went out an actually bought a bottle of second growth Bordeaux from 2000. Who knows I may even end up drinking the stuff! What is even more embarrassing is having French employees who bring you bottles of French wine. If only they knew as much about wine as they do about Rugby! Still I guess I am going to have to drink it at some stage.

Mike

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:49 pm

smithy wrote:8)

its just I see the word subsidy and see red.

I am first and foremost an Australian farmer after all!

Sorry to disagree, but the Australian agricultural industry is not subsidized? I'm afraid I would take a lot of convincing before I could believe that! No government-funded export promotions? No market-protecting import duties/taxes? In particular, the protection of the wine market has enabled the giants to dump their excess abroad. Ever notice that most Penfolds wines, and some of their other labels too, sell for much less in the US than in Oz? Last year Wynns John Riddoch and Michael were available in the US for as little as half the price in Oz. I doubt that there is a single Oz white wine that sells for as much in the US as it does in Oz. Have you seen many Napa cabs in Oz for the same price as in the US? Or even from just across the Tasman Sea - Oz takes any Kiwi who wants to come over, but just don't bring any wine with you. There was a recent thread on why Australians were so parochial in their wine preferences, and many, actually most I think, responces were that they would not mind trying more imports, but duties/taxes made the imports too expensive, at least regarding qpr. I empathize with the small winemaker trying to make some quality wines, but I think Oz agri-industry gets more than its fair share of subsidies, one way or another.

smithy · Post by **smithy** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:44 pm

Bob,

Thanks for raising 1 of my favorite issues.
I can honestly say the world of wine would be amazed at the lack of subsidies in Australian agriculture.

We have by far the highest wine taxes in the world,which is why you can buy the wine way cheaper Overseas...No Australian wine taxes!

We do pay export promotional levies etc on export (part of the cost of export but way way cheaper than selling in Australia.
Its way worse for the bigger wine companies, but don't for a second think of this as dumping! They still make money! Its just they don't have to give a cut to the Australian government.....unless of course they make a profit!

Cheers

Smithy

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:41 pm

Smithy,

I guess I could be led to believe that the 'Eat Ozzie Beef' campaign with which I have been constantly bombarded (it has eased off in the past year since US imports were knocked out by BSE) was totally industry funded, but all TV interviews, newspaper quotes, etc., re agri imports are from gov reps.

And it is hard to think that Wynns JR at prices below A$30 is not dumping.

I thank god everyday for Japan's low wine duties/taxes that allow me to import my own wine from Oz. It's just about A$2 per 750-mL bot, REGARLESS OF PRICE! Plus the 5% price-based consumption tax (like the GST) of course. And by travelling to Oz once a year I can ship it back as 'unaccompanied baggage' at a total flat tax of about A$1.80/bot.

Pity the poor beer drinkers here who pay A$0.94 in tax on every 350 ML CAN! PLUS the 5% GST on the TOTAL PRICE! Drink a 6-pack and pay a total of about A$16, of which more than A$6 is taxes! Low-malt brews attract less tax, so now they've started making quasi beer from green peas!