Was hoping to tap into the collective wisdom here, as I know there’s a few of you who are pretty heavy on their wynns collections and probably have a good pulse on what’s what.
I’ve had a few BL cabs and Shiraz’s from wynns which have been pretty great.
And I just got a bonus at work and thus have a little play money for a purchase
I’m leaning towards either holding out and hoping my Wendouree list allocation comes through next year, or a 6 pack of John riddoch off the wynns website, while there’s some sales on at the moment
They have the new ‘21 vintage at 165 each
‘18 at 130 each
‘19 at 135 each
‘20 at 130 each
Are these priced well? Or should I wait for some sales? Or maybe call the winery directly to see if discounts are available?
And in general your opinion on best vintages for JR in coonwarra?
S and N,
With the increase of $25 on the RRP for 2021 JR, street price is $155+
I think Langtons had some for $140 and i picked up a few at less than that. But the advice at this stage is don't buy...its not selling and its over inflated. in terms of quality it is brilliant, I have looked at it 3-4 times now.
Don't bother with the 2020, its rubbish and should never have been made.
2019, 18, 16 I have purchased for all under $100, through wildcard, mystery deals and phone contacts from a TWE broker.
Of course I am biased, its my favourite wine, but in terms of best vintage, 2010/12/16/18/19/21 are all excellent editions.
I do beleive the wine is getting quite expensive now...so wait, someone (hopefully TWE will blink first). They need the sales.
Currently those are fair prices if you are getting the wines direct from the winery.
For comparison, if you get them from Cellardoor.co today
JR 21 $170
JR 20 $130
JR 19 $130
JR 18 $130
FYI Cellardoor.co is run by Treasury Wine Estates and invite only. You get some pretty good prices every now and then. They often run specials or big discounts, but not on JR at the moment.
Agree with Craig that you should go for 18, 19 and 21 - not the 20.
If you are cellaring the wines for 15 or 20 years, get them direct from the winery. Then you know the provenance when you come to open and enjoy them.
Keep an eye on the weather, however. Summer is not an ideal time for wine deliveries.
Yeah good tips guys thanks! I’m not in a hurry to purchase at the moment but was leaning towards ‘18 and ‘21.
How does one get invited to cellar door.co ?
I was previously on silver status with penfolds last year which is owned by TWE, so maybe there’s something there?
I just thought the the BL is pretty great so the JR must be pretty good also .
It’s a good point also about the heat, my recent sorrenberg Chardonnay delivery went through that 36 degree day in Melbourne recently which I was a bit worried about! I don’t know why they deliver in the warmer months !
Of the vintages going right back to 1982, which are the ones drinking well now?
The only one I've tasted in the last few years is the '82, but there are a number of others from the 80's and 90's that I'm curious about.
The first one I ever bought on release was the '03, and I haven't opened one of those yet. It's a pretty long-term proposition IMO, plus I like really aged reds.
I did an international event using JR about 5 years ago. It was a good way to express Coonawarra and pique the interest of a diverse international crowd. Paid a small fortune for the 82 which had been passively stored- it was OK and not at its mightiest. Should be a capital offence passive clearing.
I was impressed with JR and made up a case of mixed vintages from auction form long cellar sleep.
the 86 JR is quite good, I still have about 6 of the 12 left, and had one last year. Time to drink it up, it is another one where the Black Label is better than the JR.
if you can find a 1976 Black Label that heas been well stored, it is better than any vintage of the JR, including the 82.
felixp21 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:36 pm
the 86 JR is quite good, I still have about 6 of the 12 left, and had one last year. Time to drink it up, it is another one where the Black Label is better than the JR.
if you can find a 1976 Black Label that heas been well stored, it is better than any vintage of the JR, including the 82.
I agree. Had a 76 late last year… still in awesome nick. Sadly only have a few left. For my tastes, possibly the best wine Wynns have made in the past 50 years
felixp21 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:36 pm
the 86 JR is quite good, I still have about 6 of the 12 left, and had one last year. Time to drink it up, it is another one where the Black Label is better than the JR.
if you can find a 1976 Black Label that heas been well stored, it is better than any vintage of the JR, including the 82.
I have had them all and will be finally doing the 40 year vertical next year. Think you need to look at 2010/12/16/18/19/21 JR. Yes 76 is amazing, had one about 10 years ago and have a couple left. 82 BL from magnum is the best one I have tried.
Good we all like something different.
Cheers Craig
felixp21 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:36 pm
if you can find a 1976 Black Label that heas been well stored, it is better than any vintage of the JR, including the 82.
Had a '76 at a Scorpio off line courtesy of Con maybe 9-10 years ago, was in prefect nick, it was my WOTY by a mile
veni, vidi, bibi also on twitter @m_j_short and instagram m_j_short
It got a lot of attention when it was released, and not just because it was a JWT winner. It won Gold at the Melbourne, Brisbane, Canberra and Perth wine shows.
There was a lot of the 76 BL released, so batch variation as well as corks will be a factor I suppose when you are opening old bottles of it now.
The 70s could have been a purple patch for Wynns. The 73 won Gold at Adelaide and Sydney, the 74 won Gold at Melbourne and Perth, the 75 won Gold at Adelaide, Melbourne and Brisbane, the 78 won Gold at Hobart and the 79 won Gold at Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth.
Len Evans makes a point that Wynns had found their own style with the BL in the 70s, and it was obviously liked by wine show judges. He also remarks that they were available to the wine buying public all over the place and in large quantities.
So the 76 BL wasn’t just freaky good, there was probably a lot of it around too. I think that is what is behind the criticism of over-cropping in the 70s. Wynns was also doing a lot of new planting around then too. There was pressure on them to lift volumes, especially the BL.
Now I had some of those BLs from the 70s in the 90s. These BLs were 15 to 20 yr old then and bloody good wines. Pulled out of a cellar in Brisbane. Remember having the 76 Cab Hermitage too, which was also very good. Maybe it is the stand out vintage of the decade.
Really impressed that they have kicked on and are still going, albeit a very mature wine.
The 60 year vertical back to the 54 White Label that Wynns did some years ago showed the Cab is a keeper. They had many remarkable BLs from the 60s and 70s right through to the 2015 vintage. The wine critics who attended this tasting picked out some fav’s - from each decade. But I don’t think any of them were saying these older wines are better than recent vintages.
In fact the popular opinion was they are now as good as ever. If anything it gives you confidence in buying them.
My own verticals of 90s BLs some years ago and then another one doing recent BLs back to 2010 confirmed that for me anyway. These wines will have a long future ahead of them, especially the BLs under screwcap since 2006. You can do a vertical and pick your winners, but to be honest it is only a moment in time in the ebb and flow of the life of these wines.
Now the OP was asking about the JR. The simple answer is buy the BL every time and if you got the money get the JR in the best vintages. Wynns has always intended it to be their very best Cab, so it definitely warrants thinking about if you like their wines.
JR is from the top 1% of their terra rossa. They tend to use the same old blocks of Cab year in, year out. Apparently it is the same fruit that goes into the Penfolds Bin 707. One parcel goes into French oak at Wynns and the other parcel goes into American oak at the Barossa.
They are one of the few wineries in this country with an optical grape sorter, which lifts fruit quality. They did a lot of rejuvenation work on the vineyards when Allen Jenkins got involved post 2000. They are much better focused on barrels and coopers these days. The winemakers (the Hodder & Pidgeon duo) have been there a while now and supported by very experienced vineyard staff and scientists.
It is a pretty schmick winery these days. They have had corporate owners since the 70s going back to the Tooth & Co brewery days, so that is nothing new with them. Also it has a sense of place - simply put a Coonawarra Cab can’t come from anywhere else.
So it is nice to see the antiquities coming out every now and then. It is living history I suppose getting to open a lovely old wine like the 76 BL.
I also think in many years time these BLs and JRs post 2006 (under screwcap) will be popped open and drunk - and still being talked about too.
JR in particular is a bit like Grange in a way. If you don’t have any of these wines, you are not in the game and missing out.
Note - There is a useful article on a 40 year JR vertical back to the inaugural 82 by Campbell Mattinson on Wine Companion.
He scored 95+ pts to every vintage from 2004 to 2019 (except the 2006) - adding that “these wines go to another zone once they hit 20 years post vintage”.
Sean, thanks for this, a good refresher for an old brain like mine. I really liked the Peter Douglas years (1986-97), and went to many many events that he was at. Lovely guy, certainly not short of work as the leading consultant in the district. John Wade was also very deft with Cabernet, the 80s Howard Park's were amazing wines.
I am doing a little back filling on some 80s and 90s BLs to go with 30+ other vintages. I'm not that enamoured with the 70s, have a 71, a couple of 76, and a couple of 78. But 80s onwards may be a little more reliable.
Certainly hope to do a number of verticals and horizontals, when I have time to sort out the cellar and can organise my life a bit better.
Having a look at a 94 BL and maybe a JR next week, as the lad is turning 30...where does the time go.
Cheers Craig
Great to read your reply Sean. I do like the BL and think the value is great. I’d love to get a case of it but I don’t have the space in my wine fridge. Thus I’m just building up some nicer bottles for now to mature.
So you think JR is a 20 year proposition? Because that’s a looong time !
I keep getting sucked into buying more wine
The ‘18 JR is on sale for $115 on cellar door with a free decanter on orders over $300 . Tempted to get 3 !
SipAndANibble wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2024 8:58 pm
So you think JR is a 20 year proposition? Because that’s a looong time !
With ease.
Perhaps more important would be whether you *need* to wait 20+ years. With the BL I would say definitely not, even though it's clear it can last well beyond two decades.
With JR I'm wary of the greater stylistic change over the years, making that a question for others with wider experience than me with that label.
Sean mentioned the optical sorter, I think that's important. I remember talking to Brett Sharpe about it, as not surprisingly, the Lindemans Trio wines went through the Wynns winery. He felt that it helped make more immediately approachable wines that still aged, as there was a higher quality of berries going into the wine. To me, that is evident in the quality of the JR , the BL and the individual single block wines in between, the latter having very good fruit definition. Definitely an uptick in quality over the last decade or more. But at my age, maybe my recent purchase of more 21 JR is a bit optimistic in terms of drinking an aged wine
veni, vidi, bibi also on twitter @m_j_short and instagram m_j_short
phillisc wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:59 am
Having a look at a 94 BL and maybe a JR next week, as the lad is turning 30...where does the time go.
Craig,
I'm looking forward to hearing about the '94 JR - if you do open it - as it is a wine I picked up many years ago. I found three bottles in a small store next to a supermarket for a modest $34 Canadian each. Indeed, where does the time go, it is sobering to think that they are now 30 years old.
SipAndANibble wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 1:47 am
My fridge is full now though so im going to have to stay away from buying anything new untill I’ve drink through what’s in there for now
Good luck with that - not something I seem to do very well…..
SipAndANibble wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 1:47 am
My fridge is full now though so im going to have to stay away from buying anything new untill I’ve drink through what’s in there for now
Good luck with that - not something I seem to do very well…..
Well at this stage it’s either a bigger fridge or one in one out as I don’t have storage for nice bottles hahaha
