Old Australians From Climate Controlled Storage.

[JamieBahrain]

I’ve a lot of older Aussies to get through. Thought it may be interesting to keep track of them on a new thread. Just a few comments on each. Hopefully some of you may find it if interest having long ago drank these wines or perhaps, like myself, have many in the cellar and are curious as to how they are holding.

Henschke Keyneton Estate 1995 375ml- Thought I’d drank these 20 years ago! Cork crumbled yet pristine aromatically. A subtle mesh of black fruits with an interesting herbal intensity. Very comfortable old drinking, still fresh and the shorter length of the vintage provides superb balance with the structural resolution.

Jasper Hill Emily’s Paddock 1999- Sublime nose. Reminds me of a modernist Barolo from the 90’s. I recall the wine in youth and it has developed very well. Most would prefer this wine young I feel. I really enjoy the way a good cellar gives complimentary tertiary and fresher nuance.

Tahbilk Marsanne 2006 & 2008- Delivering great lunchtime drinking. No brainer for the cellar at $9 years ago and in SC. Great idea to put these away each year as they deliver in multiples down the track.

Henschke Mt Ed 1990- Still has that amazing streak of black pepper/herb working perfect with a core of dark fruit. Age is taking away its flesh and delivering an extremely elegant old Shiraz.

If I can get away from the Adelaide pub scene I have a 97 horizontal of Dalwhinnie Shiraz, The Eagle and their Cabernet. As well as my last bottle of Battely Syrah 2004 which was peaking a few years ago with Northern Rhône-like essence

[mychurch]

Jamie

Lucky you, but I think you are a bit pessimistic when it comes to classifying these as old. Maybe the 1990, but the rest would be ‘mature’ for my tastes, with old age yet to come. Had I been in my 20s or early 30’s though, I would probably have a different opinion

[JamieBahrain]

They were all old reds for mine. The Mt Ed could be another Henschke freak with more time although it could be a pointless gamble with an incredible vintage and wine.

I get what you are saying but we aren’t dealing with BDX or Barolo.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Lucky you, but I think you are a bit pessimistic when it comes to classifying these as old. Maybe the 1990, but the rest would be ‘mature’ for my tastes, with old age yet to come. Had I been in my 20s or early 30’s though, I would probably have a different opinion

I quite agree. The 1990 may just be considered on older side. Meanwhile I am still debating on whether to I should be opening the 1995 Knappstein 'Enterprise' Cabernet or the St Henri. As for the Tahbilk Marsanne I still consider the 2010 as too young to open. It's all about perspective isn't it?

Cheers ................... Mahmoud.

[Ian S]

Agreed the Tahbilk Marsanne was a bargain cellar builder. I probably should have bought more, indeed I probably should *still* buy more. I think I just have a single bottle of the 2003 '1927 vines' bottling. At 18yo, maybe I should look to open it?

A shame we never saw their Roussanne over here (or at least I don't recall seeing it)

[Mahmoud Ali]

I think I just have a single bottle of the 2003 '1927 vines' bottling. At 18yo, maybe I should look to open it?

Ian , according to the Tahbilk website it has another 10+ years ahead so no need to hurry.

[Ian S]

ta

[Michael McNally]

Jamie

Lucky you, but I think you are a bit pessimistic when it comes to classifying these as old. Maybe the 1990, but the rest would be ‘mature’ for my tastes, with old age yet to come. Had I been in my 20s or early 30’s though, I would probably have a different opinion

I don’t think it’s pessimistic to classify these as old. Most people would. Anything that is 20+ years is statistically ’old’ (looking at wine more broadly, not the collectors here). Yes some folks like you good self (and Mahmoud) like wines on the older side than most folks,but that doesn’t make these young wines.

Cheers

Michael

[JamieBahrain]

The gist of the thread was to be Australian wines from climate controlled storage, mostly drank beyond what many/most/everyone would. That these Australian wines were in perfect storage all their life could be interesting in how well the wines evolve.

I’ve lifetimes of exposure to seriously old wine. Frankly of which, many were so far past it yet many folks I tasted with would not say so or did not realise. Some of this due the vagaries of cork, storage or unsuitability to age. A wine that is completely tertiary is beyond it for mine. A great 50 year plus wine is best if it still has clear and of course, evolved fruit notes.

Dalwhinnie Shiraz 1997-Smells like the dry summers day I bought it from cellar door. Loaded with Aussie bush notes, mint and dark chocolate fruit. Still lively, better with a little air ( balances oak )and shows warm vintage from a cooler region throughout. My wife didn’t know what she was drinking and asked if it was Blue Pyrenees ( not bad really )

[mjs]

We can quibble about age, but I'm with Jamie on this one. Definitely interesting to see Oz wines with a bit of age that have been stored properly. That's pretty much what I am trying to do with my cellar storages, two of three of which are temp controlled.

We alll know that 98% of wine purchased from a certain mainstream wine outlet is drunk within 24 hrs. I am sure that most if not everyone here has a different approach.

[Jimmya]

Ages quibble aside, the next question is do these wines improve with age or just get older and different?

[Mahmoud Ali]

Jimmya,

So much depends on the wine and how it is made. Wines at almost any price point can age and improve depending on the fruit and structure and tannin. To give you an Australian perspective I tasted the young 1998 Rockford 'Moppa Springs' at cellar door. i thought it was a very nice wine and had the guts to improve. I cannot remember what projection I had in mind but it was likely something like ten years or so. I bought a couple of bottles and took them home to Canada. By the time I got around to opening the first bottle two decades had passed and believe me the wine was glorious. In all honesty I much prefer the 20 year-old wine to the 3 year-old wine at cellar door.

This may not be what you wanted to hear but they can be all three: older, different, and better.

[Ian S]

Agreed, they can be all 3 and indeed whether it's better will vary between us. The best way to answer that is through trying younger and mature wines, and seeing where your preference lies (and that may vary by grape/region/wine style). For me, most become more appealing (with age) to my palate, though a small few (e.g. Mitolo) have me thinking they are at their most enjoyable in youth (albeit in a style that's less to my tastes these days).

[JamieBahrain]

Ages quibble aside, the next question is do these wines improve with age or just get older and different?

Great question and I’m sure you’ve an interesting opinion?

Personally, I think your question is a fashionable, almost generational view emerging as the modern populations’ palates undertake significant adjustment. People these days seem to be far less sensitive to tannins and drinking wine in its rawest youth. I’ve seen this in Australia with a good example Wendouree ( regularly slammed on these forums 25 years ago for being brash and unbalanced ) or in Piedmont at restaurants where aged cellar stock long gone and with current vintage mostly on offer. Despite winemaking changes there is no way these wines would have been drunk so pleasingly young decades ago in my opinion.

That all said, a lot of Australian premium wine does not need much more than a decade to show their best. However going back to the eighties and earlier, lower alcohol and higher acidity, many of these wines appearing classical and timeless.

Penfolds 389 1989- Cheating here. This wine lived under my bed at Port Lincoln for a year and various Melbourne locations before a long life in climate controlled care. Truly a beautiful wine. Still with youthful nuance of ripe fruit in a gentle mix of of more tertiary evolution. No hesitation putting this in any of my more exotic tasting line-ups abroad. Popped and poured a fair call- last glass slightly dominant drying leather on the finish not seen in the first few.

[phillisc]

Thanks for the note on the Dalwhinnie. Have forgotten that I have a mixed dozen of the 97 cabernet and shiraz...must look at one.
Cheers Craig

[JamieBahrain]

The Cabernet a grotesquely unbalanced wine a decade ago! Age was my Great White Hope for this wine. The tannin structure far in excess of fruit potential.

I’ll see how it goes- I’ll drink The Eagle first though! Cabernet with food.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Penfolds 389 1989- Cheating here. This wine lived under my bed at Port Lincoln for a year and various Melbourne locations before a long life in climate controlled care. Truly a beautiful wine. Still with youthful nuance of ripe fruit in a gentle mix of of more tertiary evolution. No hesitation putting this in any of my more exotic tasting line-ups abroad. Popped and poured a fair call- last glass slightly dominant drying leather on the finish not seen in the first few.

Hello Jamie,

It's interesting that you should to choose to mention the Penfold's 1989 Bin 389 though you don't say when you had it, presumably recently. I'm glad you brought it up because, believe it or not I have had three of Penfold's 1989 wines: the lowly Koonunga Hill Shiraz/Cabernet, the Bin 28 Kalimna Shiraz, and the Bin 389 Shiraz/Cabernet. Among the three the Koonunga Hill was the only one I tried when young. A cousin brought a bottle of the '89 Koonunga Hill to a BBQ in Vancouver when I was passing through. I was impressed enough that I bought a pair when I got home to Edmonton.

In 2003, when it was 12 years old I opened a bottle of the Koonunga Hill and it had developed beautifully, so much so that a wine store manager at the table remarked that it was better than the latest 1997 Penfold's releases that he had recently sampled. The 1989 Bin 28 Kalimna was something I found in 1995 when I was in Perth. It was a step up in the Penfold's hierarchy and at 6 years of age was drinking very well but had room for development. I would have loved to have taken a bottle home to see how it would develop but I was on my way to Hong Kong and China. Sometime in the early 90s I was on a skiing trip to BC and at a local wine the clerk recommended the 1989 Bin 389. It was opened sometime in the late 2000s when it was almost 20 years old. Again, another lovely Penfold's wine from the same vintage.

What I'm trying to say, admittedly in a long-winded way, is that a good producer can make good wines at different price points if they choose to do. Naturally, depending on the vintage, varietal or blend, they will evolve at different rates and one of the hardest part of cellaring is the devilishly difficult task of predicting when to crack open the wine. It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears only a bit more difficult. While Goldilocks gets to taste the porridge before deciding if it's too hot, too cold, or just right, we geeks have to figure out too old, too young, or just right without opening the bottle.

Cheers ...................... Mahmoud.

PS: When I was in Perth a store had signs offering the 1990 Grange for A$99 per bottle. Again, had I been going home instead of Hong Kong .......

[Ian S]

I certainly agree that there appears to be a trend for drinking wines younger, however I do think that winemakers are making much more effort (or perhaps the weather is also encouraging it) to manage the tannic impact down, so they aren't as fierce as they used to be 25+ years ago, and are thus approachable not only on release, but also more approachable in the period they were at risk of 'closing down'. I have a sad recollection of opening a 1998 Pio Cesare Barolo Ornato (from vague memory at 8-10 years old). It was all tannins, and I was an idiot for opening it then. Maybe that's not so much of a risk now?

So maybe the modern trend is merely adapting to the wines as they are made today, and it's us old timers that need to do some recalibration ourselves?

[mychurch]

I was at a wine event years ago in Scotland and one of the guests was Pichler who brought big bottles of 80’s Gruner Veltiner. It was only ‘basic’ tafelwein, but it was great. This would have been around 1999, so the wine were old for a dry white. In my top 4 for the whole event, but it was just the fact that they were old that was wowing me. The actual wine itself could have been 2 or 3 years old and it was then that I realised that aging and surviving are very different traits. Screw caps for me means there are going to be more and more survivors, but I’m not sure how many actually improve.

[JamieBahrain]

GV would have to be one of the most age worthy whites. Most of it is sadly drunk young. I’ve been fortunate to dine with Rudi a number of times and share his great wine which he likes to present in magnum- and with lots of age! My good mate from HK is his neighbour so I think I’ve become fortunately very well exposed to Austrian wine of which a lot improves in the cellar. including their amazing Sauvignon Blanc

I think there’s a whole thread worthy on white wine under sc and how much it can improve.

[GraemeG]

My only recorded note on 89 Bin 389:

[url=https://www.cellartracker.com/note.asp?iWine ... te=2950764]1989 Penfolds Bin 389[/url] - Australia, South Australia (6/08/2012)
[url=https://www.cellartracker.com/event.asp?iEvent=18836]NobleRottersSydney - Penfolds Bin 389 1988-97 (Alio's, Surry Hills)[/url]: [13.5%, cork] {Stephen} I had much less hope for the 89 than the 88, but this was something of a surprise. The bouquet bears a very distinct resemblance to the 89 Grange; it has sweet blueberry & liquorice aromas, with an exotic turkish delight twist. The palate is a bit more skeletal though; the texture is kind of boney; tannins have softened right out to a chalky memory, although the acid is under control. Nearly medium-bodied; there is just a lingering sense of the sweet jammy flavours the palate once possessed. A short-medium finish winds things up; on it’s own its still very drinkable; tonight it’s with the 93 at the bottom of the pack, but isn’t disgraced by any means. Not worth holding longer, but certainly still worth drinking.

That said, I have about 8 notes on the 89 Grange from 1999 to 2019 and it's been fantastic (if not typically Grange) over that whole time.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Thanks Graeme, and with your contribution, it's apparent that in a weaker, less fancied vintage, Penfold's was able to make good wines that cellared well across almost all tiers, from Grange to Koonunga Hill. All we need is for someone to chime in with Bin 707 and St Henri.

[mjs]

In 2003, when it was 12 years old I opened a bottle of the Koonunga Hill and it had developed beautifully, so much so that a wine store manager at the table remarked that it was better than the latest 1997 Penfold's releases that he had recently sampled.

I have also found several vintages of KH that were surprising with age. There are a number of other "cheap" but good value wines, which people wouldn't normally think will amount to something rewarding and accordingly don't bother to cellar them. I'm thinking wines like Wynns White Label Shiraz (and antecedents) and The Siding Cabernet, Metala White Label, Penfolds KH 76. All well made commercial wines, but all with the ability to improve with age in good years. Perhaps I do wrestle with the bother of cellaring sub $15 wines, but I've had older bottles of all of these wines, at least 8 years of age say, which have been delightful.

Jamie mentioned '89 389, most people would regard '89 as an unremarkable year, particularly given the two years which followed. I think '99 is another year like this, regarded as fairly unremarkable, but in my experience showing some fantastic wine now.

[JamieBahrain]

I’ll grab some 99’s for next week. Good vintage often though sometimes lacking length.

[Mahmoud Ali]

... I have also found several vintages of KH that were surprising with age ... Penfolds KH 76 ... All well made commercial wines, but all with the ability to improve with age in good years. Perhaps I do wrestle with the bother of cellaring sub $15 wines, but I've had older bottles of all of these wines, at least 8 years of age say, which have been delightful.

The 1976 Koonunga Hill was legendary, the first ever vintage of the KH. It was made because in an excellent and abundant vintage , with wine sale slumping, they had more wine than they needed for their established wines. Penfold's came up with the bargain priced KH to sell off their excess stocks. The KH was very well received and Penfold's continued making it.

When I was overseas a UK person gave me a wine magazine and in it I read an article on the 20th anniversary of KH, wherein the author tasted all the vintages from 1976 to 1996. In it he marvelled at the quality of the KH and said that the 1976 was still a very good wine though starting to tire. He also said that the 1996 was showing signs of being another 1976 KH. Remembering where I last saw the 1996 KH at home, I called my mopther and asked her to pick up six bottles. The first one I opened, when it was about 15 years old, a friend of mine, not knowing what it was, said he was surprised that I had opened such a young wine. I've so far had three of them and so far they show no signs of decline.

You are very fortunate to have tasted a piece of Australian wine history.

Jamie mentioned '89 389, most people would regard '89 as an unremarkable year, particularly given the two years which followed. I think '99 is another year like this, regarded as fairly unremarkable, but in my experience showing some fantastic wine now.

I recall hearing people remarking, when talking about Australian wines, about how much they preferred the 1997s to the well regarded 1998s. I have come to the conclusion that when it comes to the better producers, those with a reputation, the vintage is not something to worry about but rather something to take into account when deciding when to open the bottle.

Cheers ................... Mahmoud.

[phillisc]

Malcolm, agree re KH, Metala, Wynns Hermitage. Fondly remember 'lost' dozens of '86-90 KH, drank beautifully at 20 years of age.
Have some 86, 90, 91 Wynns lined up for horizontals...sure that they will hold their own.

I'm sure you have some 99 JRs, very good wine.
Cheers Craig

[Mahmoud Ali]

I’ll grab some 99’s for next week. Good vintage often though sometimes lacking length.

I look forward to hearing about them as I have a small number of them, both Shiraz and Cabernet.

[JamieBahrain]

Strange week of weather in Adelaide. Slowly acclimatising to the vagaries of southern summers. Went for a few lighter reds ( style and maturity ) and a more recent Chardonnay.

Shaw & Smith M3 Chardonnay 2008- A modest expression of Adelaide Hills Chardonnay. Colour is youthful, development is not happening as the screw cap preserves the wine’s youth in subdued fashion. I think I’ll leave the other two a decade and see what happens. I had a few fantastic Petaluma Piccadilly’s last month from 04 that where offering great interest as they’d developed into mature Chardonnay’s.

I must add Riedel’s Montrachet glasses are the most ridiculous looking and inappropriate stems for Chardonnay. Better result in a Zalto claret glass!

Craiglee Shiraz 1988- Nice surprise I thought this a 98 in the darks of the cellar. What a classic Australian wine. Elegantly peppered: a good cellar has preserved the pretty red fruit notes, the barest hints of leather and earth, there’s a complexity akin the scents of a dry summer northerly. Hay and Aussie bush like- bit more alluring than “eucalyptus”. Fresh and clean on the palate, subtle and fine.

Superb vintage wine! Better than or as good as it’s youth which I drank a bit of.

Battely Syrah 2004- Age has refined the wine toward a very easy and pleasurable drinking experience. I’m not so experienced with Beechwoeth so my best description is think of a mature Northern Rhone, this being clean, more delicate and with buffing. Delightful!

My last bottle five years plus ago was exemplary. I shared with a good friend in HK and we both remarked its likeness to a very highly regarded ( amongst the cognoscenti ) Cote Rotie. I’m embarrassed to mention the name now, as a few more years in the cellar has seen the Battely drop in intensity- hardly mimicking the great Rhones- though no less a pleasurable wine.

[JamieBahrain]

Couple more 97 Dalwhinnies.

Dalwhinnie Cabernet 1997- Perfect cork excessive browning. Always a heavily structured wine beyond the capabilities of vintage, it was still acceptable drinking. Actually reminded me of a modernist Barolo again, where the cork not quite right, and you get the inevitable variation in a six pack. “Autumnal development” about sums it up! I’m off to Goolwa for a few days perhaps I’ll take another down and see if this bottle atypical.

Dalwhinnie Eagle Shiraz 1997- Holding up well, ripe fruited nose with the expected nuance of the site, contrasting with a medium weighted palate and fine and integrated tannins. Quite good- very cool climate Australian at this age with bush notes versus what you may see from high-end Rhone with more a herbal edge.

[mjs]

Here’s a wine purchased recently from the secondary market, allegedly with provenance, staying in the 1997 slot. So, perhaps not quite guaranteed to be climate controlled storage, but interesting nevertheless. Enjoyed out the back on a balmy Adelaide evening.

1997 Majella The Malleea Cabernet Shiraz
Matured in new French hogsheads 22 months
Red garnet, deep core. Fresh dark fruits bouquet, perfumed, slight licorice, some plum and pencil shavings, still good fruit after 25 years, some soft tannins and soft mouth feel, perhaps a slightly lean and dry finish, in pretty good shape really, good but perhaps not great.

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