Shiraz Viognier- the bee's knees or one for the dust bin?

[Mahmoud Ali]

Michel Chapoutier comes to mind here with his wines from the Pyrenees, Heathcote and Beechworth. His philosophy is to let the terroir speak for itself, so he does exactly what I wish other winemakers would do.

I have a bottle of Australian Chapoutier. It was a Shiraz with some braille on the label. I bought a pair of them, tried a bottle, was impressed, and went back to buy some more but found it was sold out. I recall the name 'Mathilde' but not the vintage or where it was from.

You are probably thinking about the Domaine Tournon Mathilda Chapoutier Shiraz. Made in Victoria. Last vintage released here in Ontario was the 2017. $16.25 CDN.

That's the one, though I bought it several years ago so it was an earlier vintage. I don't recall it having any Viognier, but if it did, it certainly did not show it.

[dingozegan]

I'm not a fan of Australian Shiraz Viognier for some of the reasons previously outlined in this thread, but I do think it works in the Rhone.

I don’t like apricots, so I tend to avoid

I like apricots, fresh and ripe as well as dried, however, like you, not in my wines, and there is a marked scent of it when the Viognier is used with a heavy hand.

Really? So you don't like Condrieu, heavily Botrytis-influenced Semillon, Tokay...

[JamieBahrain]

I'd dispute the great mineral driven Condrieu is loaded with apricots. I also tended to age them as appropriate ( if it has oak it needs a few years ). Even the fruit driven styles are more "peachy".

When Aussie viognier blasted onto the scene- what a mess! I thought they must have the wrong clone or there's just way too much sunshine down this way. Many expressions became better. Virgilius is quite good. Beechworth shiraz-viognier blends I enjoyed my limited exposure to ( though again with cellaring )

[Mahmoud Ali]

I'm not a fan of Australian Shiraz Viognier for some of the reasons previously outlined in this thread, but I do think it works in the Rhone.

I don’t like apricots, so I tend to avoid

I like apricots, fresh and ripe as well as dried, however, like you, not in my wines, and there is a marked scent of it when the Viognier is used with a heavy hand.

Really? So you don't like Condrieu, heavily Botrytis-influenced Semillon, Tokay...

First off, I thought we were talking about Shiraz-Viognier, which is where I don't like apricots. In dessert wines it is a different beast, where I expect to find lots of thing I don't want in my reds.

As for the "heavy handed" Viognier white, the Yalumba Eden Valley wasn't apricot laden in any way, though a very rich, almost flabby, highly extracted American Viognier did lean towards an apricot profile.

Mahmoud.

[dingozegan]

I'd dispute the great mineral driven Condrieu is loaded with apricots. I also tended to age them as appropriate ( if it has oak it needs a few years ). Even the fruit driven styles are more "peachy".

I wouldn't say they're "loaded" with apricots, but I do think even the great mineral-driven examples have a little apricot to them (even if it's more the kernel-kind in flavour profile).

I like apricots, fresh and ripe as well as dried, however, like you, not in my wines, and there is a marked scent of it when the Viognier is used with a heavy hand.

Really? So you don't like Condrieu, heavily Botrytis-influenced Semillon, Tokay...

First off, I thought we were talking about Shiraz-Viognier, which is where I don't like apricots. In dessert wines it is a different beast, where I expect to find lots of thing I don't want in my reds.

You said you liked to eat apricots, but you didn't like apricot in your wines. I think I could be forgiven for interpreting you to mean wines generally, not just Shiraz Viognier.

When Aussie viognier blasted onto the scene- what a mess! I thought they must have the wrong clone or there's just way too much sunshine down this way. Many expressions became better. Virgilius is quite good. Beechworth shiraz-viognier blends I enjoyed my limited exposure to ( though again with cellaring )

As for the "heavy handed" Viognier white, the Yalumba Eden Valley wasn't apricot laden in any way, though a very rich, almost flabby, highly extracted American Viognier did lean towards an apricot profile.

I agree, Jamie, that Aussie Viognier was horrible when it first came onto the scene in Australia. However, I think the best examples Australia can offer are only passable now. I don't think Virgilius is very good (it certainly can't compare to Condrieu or even good quality examples from further south in France). I found the last one I had (2014 vintage) fairly apricoty too. Perhaps we just sense apricot differently.

[JamieBahrain]

I don't think Virgilius is very good (it certainly can't compare to Condrieu or even good quality examples from further south in France). I found the last one I had (2014 vintage) fairly apricoty too. Perhaps we just sense apricot differently.

Virgilius sits on wine lists in the Barossa for about $80. The mark up is small whereas a cheap local rielsing would be the same. Perhaps it's not popular locally?

So I had a few times off the wine lists a number of years ago as I felt it would be interesting with friends. It didn't fail to be interesting and may have a had a few years on it. Honestly would have turned my nose up if SPC apricots! Could be vintage dependant or as you mentioned palates. I was a big Condrieu drinker- recall being in heaven with a bottle of Vernay's top wine, room service in China and Aussie footy live by app.

[Mahmoud Ali]

You said you liked to eat apricots, but you didn't like apricot in your wines. I think I could be forgiven for interpreting you to mean wines generally, not just Shiraz Viognier.

Fair enough, I should have been clearer. Besides, it was a good little jab and it did brink a smile to my face.

Cheers ............................ Mahmoud.

[dingozegan]

Virgilius sits on wine lists in the Barossa for about $80. The mark up is small whereas a cheap local rielsing would be the same. Perhaps it's not popular locally? {...} Honestly would have turned my nose up if SPC apricots! Could be vintage dependant or as you mentioned palates.

I get the impression it is highly regarded in Australia as a good example of Viognier, I just don't think it's that good. Quite likely vintage dependent, as I've tried had a handful (because I never like it!).

You said you liked to eat apricots, but you didn't like apricot in your wines. I think I could be forgiven for interpreting you to mean wines generally, not just Shiraz Viognier.

Fair enough, I should have been clearer. Besides, it was a good little jab and it did brink a smile to my face.

Wasn't intended as a jab, was more intrigued by what I understood the statement to mean, but glad it brought smile to your face.