Wendouree 2020 Mailer

[mychurch]

To great relief, the CC was hit today. $1099. Not sure what that works out as. I did ask for 6 shraz, 4 Cab, 4, SM,at 2 CM and 1 each of M and SMal. From what other have said, I presume I lost a couple of bottles of shiraz.

[livcoll]

With respect, points for Wendouree's are absolutely arbitrary. I wouldn't know anyone who buys the wines based on points, nor would it matter what the points were.
Cheers Craig

Haha I don’t buy them on points either...in fact I’ll be opening a 2011 Wendouree Malbec this weekend..and not sure you actually do intend your comments with respect as you have drawn inferences from things I haven’t said...

I was more interested in their descriptions varying on either whether it was exceptional and or good vintage. Which has been previously discussed on this thread. The points differential (as the system is developed to do) just highlights their different takes.

livcoll, as I said with respect and even more so with whatever inference or premise you draw from my comment, rightfully that is up to you. What my intention was is comment on the content of the post, and wouldn't matter who wrote it, even Gary or Mike themselves.
So, here's the thing or at least my take on it;
Points for Wendouree are arbitrary, particularly those from a US scribe whose intention is drum up hysteria and potentially feed the ego of investors and or trophy hunters and or those flippers/flickers who feed the secondary market.
It's a small make, witnessed here and everywhere in discussions about the wine, with plenty clamoring to get a few bottles. The post reflecting prices those are willing to pay in UK markets is testament to that. The attraction for most here in Australia of course is the history and the price. VFM over 30 years is off the scale! The average punter when their mailer arrives, or those who pay much more at selected retailers that get an allocation don't think for a second, its only 94 points this year...won't bother. Tony Brady doesn't buy into (at least publicly) X vintage was a cracker, or X vintage was slightly better than Y vintage. He might comment, that climate, rain, harvest all varies, but they do their best in the winery to produce a quality product. I am assured that for example, nothing released from 07, indicating if not up to scratch, then not made. You could argue that 11 may be the same, but might have got the fruit off before the hail storms went through. Will certainly be interested on your note on the Malbec. I only have Shiraz and Cabernet from that vintage.

In regards to points and those who anoint them (have a lot of time for Gary by the way, calls it as he sees it), again its an arbitrary crystal ball gazing exercise with Wendouree. One you actually need to like the style, big vs. restrained and everything in between. Two, time is required for a complete assessment. Three, context is essential, the ability to compare multiple wines across multiple vintages, as we did at the excellent offline in 2016.
Points might be important to some, and that I appreciate. It may be the deciding factor that you pass, but I would think that incredibly rare for the Wendouree buyer
No disrespect intended, I acknowledge on occasion that my posts get some folks fired up, but feel in this instance with a 30 year buying and tasting history it gives me a little skin the game. Great to see you are also in Adelaide, there are a couple of us when the whole Covid thing blows over, would love to do another Wendouree offline.

Cheers Craig

I think we are talking at cross purposes....but I’m sure people are enjoying the distraction whilst they wait for credit cards to be hit!

I was again not interested in judging/buying Wendouree on points and again feel you are making a point about something I didn’t raise, but which you are clearly very passionate about. I don’t disagree with it!

I agree that yes people don’t and shouldn’t buy Wendouree (or most wine) on points. I certainly don’t. And I assume most on here would be in the same boat, as even if they wanted to it is basically impossible...we put orders in before we know anything about that years vintage other than general reports and our previous relationships with the wine.

I’d like clarify though that Nick Stock (NS) is the reviewer for James Suckling I referred to, and as posted on this very thread in the earlier, was at Wendouree with Tony when he did his tastings and notes. He’s also based in SA now. Hence why I though the difference in vintage ratings was interesting between his take and WF’s. That was my only point interesting to see different takes on the vintage. Or maybe not...

Happy to meet up for an offline one day.

[phillisc]

What have I missed here...or pardon the pun you raised the point about points...not me. They're irrelevant. And difference between scribes and points also irrelevant.
NS might have started in SA but don't reckon he spends much time here... mainly eastern states or OS (pre-covid).
Happy to catch up at an offline.
Cheers Craig

[livcoll]

What have I missed here...or pardon the pun you raised the point about points...not me. They're irrelevant. And difference between scribes and points also irrelevant.
NS might have started in SA but don't reckon he spends much time here... mainly eastern states or OS (pre-covid).
Happy to catch up at an offline.
Cheers Craig

Haha the point you have missed is that my point was not the POINTS.
I only mentioned them to highlight their differences takes on the vintages as a whole. I didn’t say at any stage they are important and should influence what you buy. In fact I said the opposite. The fun is actually making up your own mind.

Nick has been doing a bit in SA for a while. And points aside as we wait. He’s the only guy who has tasted the wines with Tony that I have seen put anything out. So if you are looking for some insight whilst you wait to taste, his article is an interesting insight (just close your eyes when you reach the review and points!). He’s also a mailing list subscriber. So like us all a fan and regular buyer.

On the mater of points though, you seem firmly against. But you publish them to sell wine through your website? Or am I missing something?

[Scotty vino]

I’m getting about 2/3rds of what i ordered based on the amount I’ve been charged . It is what it is really. I called the winery and spoke with Lita and was told that the vintage volume for 2018 was about average or a bit below compared to recent vintages. In other words we’ve been spoilt in the last few years. I asked her whether I would receive my full allo and she said probably not. That rings true with what I’ve been charged. End of the day she was very helpful and accommodating.

As for points, no points etc etc. There are a few producers that'll i'll always take punts on based on their form guide and pedigree.
Wendouree is one of them. I'd like to think i'm not a sucker to their mystique. But I think to some degree i am (as are a large % of forumites ). Having said I have had some amazing examples and a handful of bottles that have really stuck with me.

The FOMO factor with these guys is quite humorous though. Always a laugh watching the panic set in once a year.
And as usual, in the end, it works out for most.

[phillisc]

ScottyV well done on the four figures.
Yep the FOMO is rather acute, had a mate in the good old days when the CD was open, would leave Adelaide at 8 AM to be first in the queue....staring at the gum trees for an hour or two.
Amazes me that Walkerville Cellars had the 86 Shiraz on the shelves at $8:99c. Brought 2, should have of course cleaned them out. Same vintage of JR at round the same time was a 'massive' $21!!!

cheers craig.

[phillisc]

What have I missed here...or pardon the pun you raised the point about points...not me. They're irrelevant. And difference between scribes and points also irrelevant.
NS might have started in SA but don't reckon he spends much time here... mainly eastern states or OS (pre-covid).
Happy to catch up at an offline.
Cheers Craig

Haha the point you have missed is that my point was not the POINTS.
I only mentioned them to highlight their differences takes on the vintages as a whole. I didn’t say at any stage they are important and should influence what you buy. In fact I said the opposite. The fun is actually making up your own mind.

Nick has been doing a bit in SA for a while. And points aside as we wait. He’s the only guy who has tasted the wines with Tony that I have seen put anything out. So if you are looking for some insight whilst you wait to taste, his article is an interesting insight (just close your eyes when you reach the review and points!). He’s also a mailing list subscriber. So like us all a fan and regular buyer.

On the mater of points though, you seem firmly against. But you publish them to sell wine through your website? Or am I missing something?

Alright one last time...
Wendouree points and vintage variations...arbitrary, meaningless, irrelevant. Buy every year, never influences my purchase, never need to make up my mind, the decision is automatic...pity there is no annual direct debit arrangement
Good on NS doing some work in SA, (great he is a subscriber and puts his money where his mouth is), reviewing the wines which as you say is more important than points, but feel, like a number of wine scribes is East Coast centric.
On the matter of points in general, many consumers, particularly the millennial generation need to be comforted with something they can measure, and the wine scribe does their best to quantify the subjectivity. Its got to the stage now, when I get multiple calls from wineries, there is the opening spiel from the lass or chap on the blower, 'so and so has just awarded us X, we are a certain star winery'. When they finally draw breath, I'm solely interested in what is the offer, and what is the price...as if money was no object...all of us here would be buying much more wine.
The fundamental problem with points is many wine scribes have no room to move, put all their cards on the table and its a guessing game e.g. multiple 100 point scores for certain Pennies wines. In simple terms, which I can appreciate, 100 = perfection, so what for anything to come that is considered superior, measured subjectively now as perfection plus!!??
I think GW's reviews are excellent, fair and realistic, and indeed a sound indicator of quality (or otherwise) relating to any wine, long before a number pops up.
Not sure what you infer with publishing points to sell wine on a website...mine, or someone else's?

Cheers Craig

[JamieBahrain]

I don't mind the points and Wendouree. I actually welcome wider appraisals and reviews. Nick Stock's overview was excellent. Better than James Halliday's in some respects from 25+ years ago. The old "Fist in a velvet glove" comments saw many flock to the Wendouree mailing list and buy the wines. Only to find out they didn't like them years later! Out of balance was often the cry- Nick alludes to this below and I've been comparing them for decades to Piedmont.

The style has changed and without doubt they are less rusty. Also, Aussies have far wider exposure to the wines of the world these days, probably containing out of balance commentary.

Wine Front reviews are great. Now they may not be 100 pointers but I have noted some vintages with points equivalent to the very best.

And whilst the commanding tannins of Wendouree give rise to the great longevity of the wines, they are not for everyone. The comparisons with nebbiolo and Barolo in particular are commonly made but in recent years, particularly since the wines moved to bottling under screw cap in the 2009 vintage, the tannins have turned towards a smoother, more emulsified and pliable texture.

[livcoll]

What have I missed here...or pardon the pun you raised the point about points...not me. They're irrelevant. And difference between scribes and points also irrelevant.
NS might have started in SA but don't reckon he spends much time here... mainly eastern states or OS (pre-covid).
Happy to catch up at an offline.
Cheers Craig

Haha the point you have missed is that my point was not the POINTS.
I only mentioned them to highlight their differences takes on the vintages as a whole. I didn’t say at any stage they are important and should influence what you buy. In fact I said the opposite. The fun is actually making up your own mind.

Nick has been doing a bit in SA for a while. And points aside as we wait. He’s the only guy who has tasted the wines with Tony that I have seen put anything out. So if you are looking for some insight whilst you wait to taste, his article is an interesting insight (just close your eyes when you reach the review and points!). He’s also a mailing list subscriber. So like us all a fan and regular buyer.

On the mater of points though, you seem firmly against. But you publish them to sell wine through your website? Or am I missing something?

Alright one last time...
Wendouree points and vintage variations...arbitrary, meaningless, irrelevant. Buy every year, never influences my purchase, never need to make up my mind, the decision is automatic...pity there is no annual direct debit arrangement
Good on NS doing some work in SA, (great he is a subscriber and puts his money where his mouth is), reviewing the wines which as you say is more important than points, but feel, like a number of wine scribes is East Coast centric.
On the matter of points in general, many consumers, particularly the millennial generation need to be comforted with something they can measure, and the wine scribe does their best to quantify the subjectivity. Its got to the stage now, when I get multiple calls from wineries, there is the opening spiel from the lass or chap on the blower, 'so and so has just awarded us X, we are a certain star winery'. When they finally draw breath, I'm solely interested in what is the offer, and what is the price...as if money was no object...all of us here would be buying much more wine.
The fundamental problem with points is many wine scribes have no room to move, put all their cards on the table and its a guessing game e.g. multiple 100 point scores for certain Pennies wines. In simple terms, which I can appreciate, 100 = perfection, so what for anything to come that is considered superior, measured subjectively now as perfection plus!!??
I think GW's reviews are excellent, fair and realistic, and indeed a sound indicator of quality (or otherwise) relating to any wine, long before a number pops up.
Not sure what you infer with publishing points to sell wine on a website...mine, or someone else's?

Cheers Craig

I’m not totally sure about he millennial following driving points purchasing. It’s been around for a long time and in my personal experience that generation as a rule have moved further away than any other from the wine establishment. They are certainly the drive behind the organic wine resurgence. Not saying where I sit on that!

I agree and have no doubt points drives purchasing though. Unfortunately. I agree with you if I read a review I’m more interested in the words than the points. And it’s all irrelevant anyway if it’s not a wine or grape you actually like. Agree also RE GW. Even if I don’t agree with his review you know he’s fiercely independent.

I was just interested to know whether your ideological view on points impacted whether or not you’d chose to publish them for sales.

Also RE people who are RED stripes and what to order. I think if you are black or signature fill up.
But I have spoken before with Lita who states that ‘they like small orders’. So I infer that form that it you are a red stripe you are better asking for a nibble and not a bite, if you want to get fed in lean yield years.

[JamieBahrain]

I was just interested to know whether your ideological view on points impacted whether or not you’d chose to publish them for sales.

Craig may act as though he owns the website, but he doesn't.

Gavin does.

[livcoll]

I was just interested to know whether your ideological view on points impacted whether or not you’d chose to publish them for sales.

Craig may act as though he owns the website, but he doesn't.

Gavin does.

Haha fairo. My mistake!

[Scotty vino]

Haha the point you have missed is that my point was not the POINTS.
I only mentioned them to highlight their differences takes on the vintages as a whole. I didn’t say at any stage they are important and should influence what you buy. In fact I said the opposite. The fun is actually making up your own mind.

Nick has been doing a bit in SA for a while. And points aside as we wait. He’s the only guy who has tasted the wines with Tony that I have seen put anything out. So if you are looking for some insight whilst you wait to taste, his article is an interesting insight (just close your eyes when you reach the review and points!). He’s also a mailing list subscriber. So like us all a fan and regular buyer.

On the mater of points though, you seem firmly against. But you publish them to sell wine through your website? Or am I missing something?

Alright one last time...
Wendouree points and vintage variations...arbitrary, meaningless, irrelevant. Buy every year, never influences my purchase, never need to make up my mind, the decision is automatic...pity there is no annual direct debit arrangement
Good on NS doing some work in SA, (great he is a subscriber and puts his money where his mouth is), reviewing the wines which as you say is more important than points, but feel, like a number of wine scribes is East Coast centric.
On the matter of points in general, many consumers, particularly the millennial generation need to be comforted with something they can measure, and the wine scribe does their best to quantify the subjectivity. Its got to the stage now, when I get multiple calls from wineries, there is the opening spiel from the lass or chap on the blower, 'so and so has just awarded us X, we are a certain star winery'. When they finally draw breath, I'm solely interested in what is the offer, and what is the price...as if money was no object...all of us here would be buying much more wine.
The fundamental problem with points is many wine scribes have no room to move, put all their cards on the table and its a guessing game e.g. multiple 100 point scores for certain Pennies wines. In simple terms, which I can appreciate, 100 = perfection, so what for anything to come that is considered superior, measured subjectively now as perfection plus!!??
I think GW's reviews are excellent, fair and realistic, and indeed a sound indicator of quality (or otherwise) relating to any wine, long before a number pops up.
Not sure what you infer with publishing points to sell wine on a website...mine, or someone else's?

Cheers Craig

I’m not totally sure about he millennial following driving points purchasing. It’s been around for a long time and in my personal experience that generation as a rule have moved further away than any other from the wine establishment. They are certainly the drive behind the organic wine resurgence. Not saying where I sit on that!

I agree and have no doubt points drives purchasing though. Unfortunately. I agree with you if I read a review I’m more interested in the words than the points. And it’s all irrelevant anyway if it’s not a wine or grape you actually like. Agree also RE GW. Even if I don’t agree with his review you know he’s fiercely independent.

I was just interested to know whether your ideological view on points impacted whether or not you’d chose to publish them for sales.

Also RE people who are RED stripes and what to order. I think if you are black or signature fill up.
But I have spoken before with Lita who states that ‘they like small orders’. So I infer that form that it you are a red stripe you are better asking for a nibble and not a bite, if you want to get fed in lean yield years.

hmmm. I think if they offer it up then Im free to ask for whatever i like. Otherwise why are they offering? I guess they could reduce the offering to red stripers and the like in an effort to reduce the pressure on themselves in the first place. far be it from me though. I'm sure its very difficult in these leaner years.

[Croquet King]

hmmm. I think if they offer it up then Im free to ask for whatever i like. Otherwise why are they offering? I guess they could reduce the offering to red stripers and the like in an effort to reduce the pressure on themselves in the first place. far be it from me though. I'm sure its very difficult in these leaner years.

I agree - if they offer and they stipulate a max of 6 bottles of each then that's what they are ok with but it isn't in their interest to reduce the pressure.
The certain mystique they have creates demand.

The mailing list with the signatures, black and red stripes add to it all.
If no one knows how you do something, can you ever get it wrong or make a mistake?
If you do no one really knows about it

[ticklenow1]

Haha the point you have missed is that my point was not the POINTS.
I only mentioned them to highlight their differences takes on the vintages as a whole. I didn’t say at any stage they are important and should influence what you buy. In fact I said the opposite. The fun is actually making up your own mind.

Nick has been doing a bit in SA for a while. And points aside as we wait. He’s the only guy who has tasted the wines with Tony that I have seen put anything out. So if you are looking for some insight whilst you wait to taste, his article is an interesting insight (just close your eyes when you reach the review and points!). He’s also a mailing list subscriber. So like us all a fan and regular buyer.

On the mater of points though, you seem firmly against. But you publish them to sell wine through your website? Or am I missing something?

Alright one last time...
Wendouree points and vintage variations...arbitrary, meaningless, irrelevant. Buy every year, never influences my purchase, never need to make up my mind, the decision is automatic...pity there is no annual direct debit arrangement
Good on NS doing some work in SA, (great he is a subscriber and puts his money where his mouth is), reviewing the wines which as you say is more important than points, but feel, like a number of wine scribes is East Coast centric.
On the matter of points in general, many consumers, particularly the millennial generation need to be comforted with something they can measure, and the wine scribe does their best to quantify the subjectivity. Its got to the stage now, when I get multiple calls from wineries, there is the opening spiel from the lass or chap on the blower, 'so and so has just awarded us X, we are a certain star winery'. When they finally draw breath, I'm solely interested in what is the offer, and what is the price...as if money was no object...all of us here would be buying much more wine.
The fundamental problem with points is many wine scribes have no room to move, put all their cards on the table and its a guessing game e.g. multiple 100 point scores for certain Pennies wines. In simple terms, which I can appreciate, 100 = perfection, so what for anything to come that is considered superior, measured subjectively now as perfection plus!!??
I think GW's reviews are excellent, fair and realistic, and indeed a sound indicator of quality (or otherwise) relating to any wine, long before a number pops up.
Not sure what you infer with publishing points to sell wine on a website...mine, or someone else's?

Cheers Craig

I’m not totally sure about he millennial following driving points purchasing. It’s been around for a long time and in my personal experience that generation as a rule have moved further away than any other from the wine establishment. They are certainly the drive behind the organic wine resurgence. Not saying where I sit on that!

I agree and have no doubt points drives purchasing though. Unfortunately. I agree with you if I read a review I’m more interested in the words than the points. And it’s all irrelevant anyway if it’s not a wine or grape you actually like. Agree also RE GW. Even if I don’t agree with his review you know he’s fiercely independent.

I was just interested to know whether your ideological view on points impacted whether or not you’d chose to publish them for sales.

Also RE people who are RED stripes and what to order. I think if you are black or signature fill up.
But I have spoken before with Lita who states that ‘they like small orders’. So I infer that form that it you are a red stripe you are better asking for a nibble and not a bite, if you want to get fed in lean yield years.

I've been a red striper for 10 years and have not gotten a full order 3 of the last 5 years. I only ever order 3 of everything, never greedy and always send my order form back straight away. I even express posted it this year and still didn't get a full order.

I'm really not sure there is any real order to the way they do things. I'm not that bothered personally but Wendouree is my wife's favourite wine. So as long as I order (and receive) every year, I get away with all the other wine I order for my tastes .

Cheers
Ian

[mse]

Got 5x S/Malbec, 6x S/Mataro, 4x Shiraz, 3 of each for the rest. Pleasant surprise for me despite low supply from this vintage. I would have to sample the Cabs and Malbec more sparingly.

[sjw_11]

Apparently we got what we ordered this year, so I have a nice mixed six pack:

1 x shiraz/malbec
1 x shiraz/mataro
1 x shiraz
1 x malbec
1 x cabernet/malbec
1 x cabernet sauvignon

[ticklenow1]

Well as it turns out, I miscalculated what was charged to my card and I received 3 each of the 6 reds, which is what I ordered. I'm in the good books now with the wife (until my next indiscretion ).

I still have no idea how they work it out. I have missed out only 2 of the last 5 years now, not 3.

Thank you Tony and Lita!!

Cheers
Ian

[Scotty vino]

The first year I've not received everything I've ordered.
Ten years of red striping it.
I didn't receive any cab malbec which was disappointing as it's my fave of theirs but everything else was solid across the board.
In the end it sounds like they were trying their best to keep all and sundry happy. So I'm happy with my fill.

Be keen to get another Wendouree offline going. Probably my fave and most structured offline i attended in the past.
Perhaps a little easier when sticking with one producer too.
With restrictions easing for the time being it might be a good thing!

[gwyn]

Still waiting for the CC hit here (Melbourne). Red striper since 2008 and similar to others I've never missed a beat until the last 3-4 vintages which have been a mixture of reduced orders and no wine at all. Fingers crossed.

Gwyno

[Croquet King]

Mine turned up and ended up receiving 6 Sh / Mat, 4 Shiraz and 2 Cab.
I had ordered 6 each of the above 3 wines.

Overall happy.

[Mattsy]

Second year “green” in SA. Just had card hit.

Put in for 6 of everything though did not expect that.

I’m assuming 6 each of the Shiraz-Mataro and Shiraz-Malbec are on their way. Interesting no MoA though if that’s the case.

As grateful as I am, hopefully the fact Ive got something means all the reds (and higher) out there have some bottles on the way.

[WAwineguy]

Arrived today. I was scaled back on Malbec and Cabernet Sauvignon and got absolutely no Cabernet Malbec, but overall pretty content as I received two-thirds of what I ordered. Already have way too much red wine as it is!

[dave vino]

I got all mine except for 3 bottles of Cab/Malbec. Happy with that.

[Redback]

Eighth year. I ordered 6 of everything bar the Malbec and Muscat. Received everything today bar the Cabernets. Given the above posts, I am surprised and happy. Expect a lot less next year.

[Matt@5453]

its disappointing, but predictable - there are 2018's available for bidding on a well known auction site

[A_Steady]

No Cab Sauv or Cab Malbec

[JamieBahrain]

its disappointing, but predictable - there are 2018's available for bidding on a well known auction site

Could be the Friends of Wendouree? The grape pickers paid in wine?

[xwwines]

In the hope of assisting in gaining a better understanding the lottery logic (or not) - After expecting to receive nothing as a first year mailing list member, particularly after almost 2.5 months of waiting, yesterday my card was charged. Based on the figure, I expect a six pack of Shiraz Mataro or Shiraz Malbec (Or a mix of both). My theory was order six of everything (but not the muscat) so that if there was anything at all left at the end then I had it on my order. I returned the form within an hour of receiving it in Tasmania on the 7th of July. Apologies in advance to anyone who has missed out.

[tuxy85]

After being very excited to receive my first Wendouree order form - I placed an order for a mixed 6 pack (4x Shiraz Mataro, 2x Cabernet Malbec). Unfortunately, today I received a lovely handwritten note saying that I would not be receiving any of my order. ..... I'll try again next year I guess.

[Hacker]

After being very excited to receive my first Wendouree order form - I placed an order for a mixed 6 pack (4x Shiraz Mataro, 2x Cabernet Malbec). Unfortunately, today I received a lovely handwritten note saying that I would not be receiving any of my order. ..... I'll try again next year I guess.

That is one of the many reasons why we like Tony and Lita. What other cult winery anywhere in the world would write a handwritten note of apology like that? I wonder if they ever would have anticipated having such a reveered status in the wine world whilst being so humble and unassuming. And Tony being a teetotaler as well!