Hi there,
Yes all that advice from 2017 still holds. Although I'm hearing that some of the recent years (2018, 2019) in a lot of german regions were a bit troubled.
If you're starting out and your base in the Australian bone dry style, then look for the entry level wines which will often be labelled Trocken or QbA. Some of these arent perfectly dry by Australian standards as they will have as much as 10g/l of residual sugar, but acid sugar balance is key.
Dr Loosen is probably the easiest to acquire of the good producers and Gunderloch is pretty easy to acquire too. To be honest I haven't looked for a while. The entry level Donnhoff wines (tonschiefer, trocken) are also good. Gavin stocks Loosen and Donnhoff entry level wines.
You'll need to learn the german labelling system to venture up the pradikat levels - its intended to be quite systematic but still a bit confusing, as there are so many exceptions and its quite subject to interpretation at the hands of the winemaker.
Hi, I tried two dry (trocken) rieslings, the kiedriech tumburg and kiedriecher. Both had fantastic texture but the sweetness was an (unpleasant) surprise, as is the cost.
I suspect that in comparison to the everyday great value Clare/Eden Valley Rieslings from a decent year, German Riesling will always appear sweet and more expensive! The residual sugar levels do take some getting used to, and are not to everyone's taste, but true greatness can be had (a recent GMax 14 was exceptional ), albeit at a price, and they can age magnificently for decades. But ideally you want to try aged examples to get an understanding of the final result before laying some down for decades.
i think given you weren't a fan of the sweetness, it's maybe not your style Alex. But Germany has a lot of amazing wines well worth investigating. So go for it Croquet King, we can share some someday soon I hope!
Crikey,
We could go on for ages discussing this subject, and possibly should, because I may learm more!
In my experience, the thing that German Riesling has is the tension between sugar sweetness and finishing acid (let alone the stunning floral aromatics).
To think that they are just "sweet" is missing the point. However it is the sweetness that immediately turns some people off. The length of palate can sometimes be just forever!
I have always purchased JJ Prum as my staple, but there are many great producers available.
But if you cant appreciate that amazing balance of sweet middle palate and finishing acid, German Riesling just may be not your thing.
TiggerK wrote:i think given you weren't a fan of the sweetness, it's maybe not your style Alex. But Germany has a lot of amazing wines well worth investigating. So go for it Croquet King, we can share some someday soon I hope!
I remain open to be convinced! Just not at the prices required. I am sending you a pm CK.
I have been drinking rieslingfreak for a while and have started liking their off dry (14g) and Kebinett style. I tried some with about 6 years on it and really enjoyed it.
I have a preference for Clare but appreciate all styles.
So whether its dry, off dry, sweet - I'm interested in trying all of them.
I appreciate all forms of alcohol, as long as its wine.
Alex F wrote:Hi, I tried two dry (trocken) rieslings, the kiedriech tumburg and kiedriecher. Both had fantastic texture but the sweetness was an (unpleasant) surprise, as is the cost.
Hmm. None of the Wiel dry wines are sweet in the German spectrum. But bear in mind German wines labelled as dry can have residual sugar, and how much is permitted varied by region. I think it can be as much as 9 or 12 grams in some cases.
But - its all about the acid sugar balance. MacForbes released a strathbogie riesling one year that was about 25g/l sugar, but the TA was also over 10g/l, and it tasted bone dry. As a comparison your garden variety Clare and Eden dry rielsings are often 6 or 7g/l TA.
The one year we made an Auburn Dry in Central Otago we stopped the ferment at 5g/l to give the wine some texture and a little balance to the acids which we often got to 8 grams without adjustment.
Rory wrote:Crikey,
We could go on for ages discussing this subject, and possibly should, because I may learm more!
In my experience, the thing that German Riesling has is the tension between sugar sweetness and finishing acid (let alone the stunning floral aromatics).
To think that they are just "sweet" is missing the point. However it is the sweetness that immediately turns some people off. The length of palate can sometimes be just forever!
I have always purchased JJ Prum as my staple, but there are many great producers available.
But if you cant appreciate that amazing balance of sweet middle palate and finishing acid, German Riesling just may be not your thing.
JJ Prum comes in and out of fashion but geez they are always good. They have retained the "old school" style. Someone like AJ Adam is at the opposite end - big rich wines that can be a bit much sometimes.
Schloss Lieser and Fritz Haag are a fascinating pair, made by brothers. Lieser ripe and tropical, Haag more elegant.
Also - something like 80% of German production is trocken. The pradikat level wines really are boutique in style and volumes.
It’s less of a focus in the Mosel but the GG wines - Rheingau for instance - are invariable dry, even by Australian standards. I’ve had a few chances over recent years to taste Breuer’s Rudesheim Berg bottlings and they’re bone dry and extremely impressive. They’re also badly priced here, but ‘only’ around €35 at the CD. Multi-dimensional wines in the way a lot of Oz citrus juices aren’t.
GraemeG wrote:It’s less of a focus in the Mosel but the GG wines - Rheingau for instance - are invariable dry, even by Australian standards. I’ve had a few chances over recent years to taste Breuer’s Rudesheim Berg bottlings and they’re bone dry and extremely impressive. They’re also badly priced here, but ‘only’ around €35 at the CD. Multi-dimensional wines in the way a lot of Oz citrus juices aren’t.
I'm glad someone else said that, I have the same view. There's a lot of chest beating about how good Aus riesling is but...well...no.
The GG level wines are other dimensional (and Mosel cant do them well, acid levels stay too high even at the Auslese level ripeness required). Yes expensive compared to most Aussies, even Grossett, but worth it. People pay way more for equivalent level white burgundy bordeaux or rhone.
GraemeG wrote:It’s less of a focus in the Mosel but the GG wines - Rheingau for instance - are invariable dry, even by Australian standards. I’ve had a few chances over recent years to taste Breuer’s Rudesheim Berg bottlings and they’re bone dry and extremely impressive. They’re also badly priced here, but ‘only’ around €35 at the CD. Multi-dimensional wines in the way a lot of Oz citrus juices aren’t.
I'm glad someone else said that, I have the same view. There's a lot of chest beating about how good Aus riesling is but...well...no.
The GG level wines are other dimensional (and Mosel cant do them well, acid levels stay too high even at the Auslese level ripeness required). Yes expensive compared to most Aussies, even Grossett, but worth it. People pay way more for equivalent level white burgundy bordeaux or rhone.
AU Riesling is really good..across the board it is very good. But yes, German Riesling has this seamless integration of the fruit, acid and sugar that AU Riesling can't match.
Lots of bad German riesling though as well...some very mediocre GGs that are overripe, lowish acid...but overall, I'd say they're the best for what I want to see...
I've not seen 25g/L RS German Rieslings taste bone dry even at 10g/L TA but I do think they have better integration of that sweetness so it comes across more like fruit sweetness than sugary sweetness...which is where AU Riesling seems to get it a bit wrong...the sugar, even at 2g/L it noticeable (and I enjoy that more than bone dry riesling because the RS gives it better depth and complexity)....
So many good recommendations between this and the other thread...lots of producers and they're all very reasonably priced. Some types of German riesling I'd try to search out would be Spatlese Trockens..which will be a bit like a baby GG...and if people weren't in AU I'd say try lots of different GGs but GG pricing in AU is criminal...
phillisc wrote:Gee I'd better tip my Pikes Merle and Jim Barry Florita down the sink
Cheers Craig
Haha.. thats the problem with definitive looking blanket statements
We did a big tasting of dry styles from around the world to settle how we were going to make the 2013 Auburn Dry, and in the process did a blind panel ranking of the wines in front of us.
Top 3 were:
Clemens Busch Marienberg GG
Van Volxem Scharzhofberger GG
Grossett Polish Hill.
And curiously the 4th ranked wine was from Canada.
phillisc wrote:Gee I'd better tip my Pikes Merle and Jim Barry Florita down the sink
Cheers Craig
Haha.. thats the problem with definitive looking blanket statements
We did a big tasting of dry styles from around the world to settle how we were going to make the 2013 Auburn Dry, and in the process did a blind panel ranking of the wines in front of us.
Top 3 were:
Clemens Busch Marienberg GG
Van Volxem Scharzhofberger GG
Grossett Polish Hill.
And curiously the 4th ranked wine was from Canada.
phillisc wrote:Gee I'd better tip my Pikes Merle and Jim Barry Florita down the sink
Cheers Craig
I've presented Florita ( you may recall my Armagh dinner ) and the international audience was very impressed. Now these guys drink and trade the best international rieslings in the world. Personally, I thought Florita excellent too- even bought a six pack a few months ago.
What thrills me about riesling is its diversity.
$20 Aussie gets me a great style of Aussie riesling though it is just that. A welcome but mostly predictable style. You can do a lot with it. I've served aged Eden Valley rieslings to friends from the Wachau with King George whiting and what a match!
"Barolo is Barolo, you can't describe it, just as you can't describe Picasso"
Opened the 2017 Clemens Busch Riesling Kabinett tonight.
Nose of tart apples an almost crushed grape vine leaves and herbs. Slightly floral as well.
Palate was a tale of two - firstly almost sweet apple and sherbet then the acid hits and takes it into where the nose started, tart green apples and a hint of citrus.
I enjoyed it as it combined fruit sweetness and acidity very well.
I appreciate all forms of alcohol, as long as its wine.
I do like German Rieslings but I have cellared Australian ones in the hope they develop like German ones but do not expect them to do so; they are free to develop any way they want and I am okay with that.
Mahmoud Ali wrote:I do like German Rieslings but I have cellared Australian ones in the hope they develop like German ones but do not expect them to do so; they are free to develop any way they want and I am okay with that.
Mahmoud.
Well said Mahmoud.
This topic was never meant to compare German and Australian Rieslings.
Looking at CT, Riesling is 11.6% of my cellar.
Just expanding my knowledge and tastes.
I appreciate all forms of alcohol, as long as its wine.
), albeit at a price, and they can age magnificently for decades. But ideally you want to try aged examples to get an understanding of the final result before laying some down for decades.
